As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
I think Arteta knows exactly the risks with Slugchenko at inverting LB, but I think he thinks the pro's outweigh the cons! The Slug is only there because Timber and Tomi have not been available, he's our 3rd choice LB really with Kiwior the 4th choice.
Well tbh TeeCee, it’s only Arteta that can see the pros outweighing the cons. If he’s 3rd choice LB, then just play him there and forget the inverted nonsense. He’s bad enough defender without making it worse by pulling him out of position.
I know we can’t make definitive judgements based on one good performance yesterday, but I made the point on the match thread, that as raw and untried as Kiwior is (and let’s not forget that he’s a centre half not a LB), the side looked far better balanced and the defence more solid with a flat back four. The back line weren’t tested yesterday, but the structure of the side looked a lot better imo.
Last edited by Retro Gunner on Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.
The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.
As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.
Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo
I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?
Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.
Surprised ?? Moi ?? I flagged it BEFORE we signed him that he isnt a good defender so I'm not surprised one jot. I dont actually blame zinchenko either cos if I and thousands of other Gooners can see that he is not a defender, why blame the player when it is the fool playing him there who should get the blame ? I dont doubt that Timber will play at left back, but again I will point out that he is by nature a right back or right sided centre back - why cant this prix play people in their proper positions ? How does it make sense to have a right footed left back and a right footed left winger ? Talk about condensing the middle
It was obvious as early as the Man Utd game last season away very early into his Arsenal career. That's why Tomi is the preferred LB when we play teams like Pool. And as I said Timber assuming he regains full fitness will solve the problem.
Does it not concern you at all that your preferred two options are both natural right backs not left backs ? Also would you not agree that if he didnt keep inverting zinchenko into midfield that it might not expose him and the team as badly ? Timber and Tomy are both square pegs in round holes but it is typical of el basque arrogance - Timber is imo miles better than ben white and should be right back when he recovers
Hopefully penny dropped for arteta with Trossard lining up with Martinelli and Saka....and no more Nekitah leading the line when Jesus is out
need zinchenko out of left back postion now....he is a liability
It can't be a fucking coincidence that we have only had 2 shots on target against us in the last 2 games. And Comedy Zinchenko has played in neither.
He is as bad as when Wenger played Comedy Eboue at left back.
Zinchenko is so ill disciplined that when opposing teams tear down our left, he can be found at right mid. Of course Diet Pep is culpable for this inverted full back shite.
it's no coincidence that the defence looks more settled and solid without Comedy Z
Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.
The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.
As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.
But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.
You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.
Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.
It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.
Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.
Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.
Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?
How do you rate his performances?
Not as bad as many make him out to be. Good off the ball movement and very good in the air, also wins back possession a few times. Take for instance the Liverpool game. Drops deep to create an extra man in midfield, it allows us to get out of Liverpools press, he than peels of the back of Macallister and ghosts into the space for Odegaard to find him, then came the piss weak effort on goal, which is all anyone remembers from that phase, but Haavertz movement was essential in creating that Saka goal. He also forced three yellow cards - two for Konate and one for Gomez.
When we play City away, he is my pick to play centre forward, we need the option to go direct.
But for many on this forum, you are either shit or good, and there is no inbetween
Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.
The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.
As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.
But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.
You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.
Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.
It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.
Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.
Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.
Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?
How do you rate his performances?
Not as bad as many make him out to be. Good off the ball movement and very good in the air, also wins back possession a few times. Take for instance the Liverpool game. Drops deep to create an extra man in midfield, it allows us to get out of Liverpools press, he than peels of the back of Macallister and ghosts into the space for Odegaard to find him, then came the piss weak effort on goal, which is all anyone remembers from that phase, but Haavertz movement was essential in creating that Saka goal. He also forced three yellow cards - two for Konate and one for Gomez.
When we play City away, he is my pick to play centre forward, we need the option to go direct.
But for many on this forum, you are either shit or good, and there is no inbetween
No in between required for Havertz. He’s plain shit. He’d struggle over the Marshes.
I’m think you’ve told us all we need to know. At some level I can cut you some slack over Arteta, even though I don’t think he’s the answer, but a defence of Havertz tells me that you don’t know what you’re looking at. Sorry to be blunt, because you’re entitled to your opinion, but making a case for Havertz is beyond the pale in terms of understanding the game. An absolutely dreadful player and the fact that Arteta rated Xhaka and now Havertz means I can’t have faith in him as our manager. He should be sacked for signing Havertz.
Here's my tuppence - I take a more zoomed out view; I'll judge him after a few more years. The trajectory of the club is upwards since the toxicity of the late 2010s; back in the CL, competing for the PL. I think the CL is to be honest easier than the PL, we might have a shot at it.
But winning trophies is hard; the top half of the table is way more competitive than in any other European league. The PL is fucking hard and it's not a walk in the park to pick up points anywhere (unless you're away to West Ham).
I don't even think about Citeh; I spend not a jot of time thinking about them (apart from right now). They're a shit club with no history, plucked from obscurity by Mansour who pumped their arse full of spunk and oil until it erupted from every orifice. It wasn't that long ago they were in the 2nd division for fuck's sake. They're an annoying obstacle that you have to try and overcome two or three times a season. No-one talks about them; No-one reveres them in the same manner as Manure '98 or Barca '09 because they've sucked the romance out of everything. Robinho didn't even know who he'd fucking signed for. It could as well be Tranmere or Hull in their position right now.
I like how Arteta came across in the Amazon thing, it got me a bit emotional. He celebrates like a fan and I like that. Fuck everyone else.
He's got his team up and running how he wants it so I'm expecting a trophy every two/three years. Anything below that and he's underperforming in my opinion.
So in other words he has to win a trophy this season ? It has been 3 years (and £700m spent) since he won the fa cup so he is overdue by your standards
A quick byline to those standards, it is easier to win a domestic cup than either the premier league or champions league and pep's cone boy has been absolutely dogshite in these cups in recent seasons
Class is permanent, Form is temporary and clive havertz has demonstrated neither.
yes hes crap basically
Looking at him hes a weird player sort of drifts along on edges of play...has got in some good postions but finishing is woeful..does not look happy at all
hes a niggly barstad as well .....what i seen hes not going to change thats it...thats what he does
Here's my tuppence - I take a more zoomed out view; I'll judge him after a few more years. The trajectory of the club is upwards since the toxicity of the late 2010s; back in the CL, competing for the PL. I think the CL is to be honest easier than the PL, we might have a shot at it.
But winning trophies is hard; the top half of the table is way more competitive than in any other European league. The PL is fucking hard and it's not a walk in the park to pick up points anywhere (unless you're away to West Ham).
I don't even think about Citeh; I spend not a jot of time thinking about them (apart from right now). They're a shit club with no history, plucked from obscurity by Mansour who pumped their arse full of spunk and oil until it erupted from every orifice. It wasn't that long ago they were in the 2nd division for fuck's sake. They're an annoying obstacle that you have to try and overcome two or three times a season. No-one talks about them; No-one reveres them in the same manner as Manure '98 or Barca '09 because they've sucked the romance out of everything. Robinho didn't even know who he'd fucking signed for. It could as well be Tranmere or Hull in their position right now.
I like how Arteta came across in the Amazon thing, it got me a bit emotional. He celebrates like a fan and I like that. Fuck everyone else.
He's got his team up and running how he wants it so I'm expecting a trophy every two/three years. Anything below that and he's underperforming in my opinion.
Up the Arse.
This ^^^
I like what Arteta is doing too (apart from Clive Havertz).
So in other words he has to win a trophy this season ? It has been 3 years (and £700m spent) since he won the fa cup so he is overdue by your standards
A quick byline to those standards, it is easier to win a domestic cup than either the premier league or champions league and pep's cone boy has been absolutely dogshite in these cups in recent seasons
Yeah pretty much. Gut-punch to get knocked out of the cup when we were the better side this season but I'd expect a strong go at the PL and CL for the rest of this year.
No trophies by summer 2025 would not be good in my book. He has the players he wants now and with the Chavs and Manure in some sort of death-spiral the chance for winning trophies has never been better.
Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.
The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.
As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.
But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.
You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.
Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.
It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.
Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.
Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.
Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?
How do you rate his performances?
Not as bad as many make him out to be. Good off the ball movement and very good in the air, also wins back possession a few times. Take for instance the Liverpool game. Drops deep to create an extra man in midfield, it allows us to get out of Liverpools press, he than peels of the back of Macallister and ghosts into the space for Odegaard to find him, then came the piss weak effort on goal, which is all anyone remembers from that phase, but Haavertz movement was essential in creating that Saka goal. He also forced three yellow cards - two for Konate and one for Gomez.
When we play City away, he is my pick to play centre forward, we need the option to go direct.
But for many on this forum, you are either shit or good, and there is no inbetween
No in between required for Havertz. He’s plain shit. He’d struggle over the Marshes.
I’m think you’ve told us all we need to know. At some level I can cut you some slack over Arteta, even though I don’t think he’s the answer, but a defence of Havertz tells me that you don’t know what you’re looking at. Sorry to be blunt, because you’re entitled to your opinion, but making a case for Havertz is beyond the pale in terms of understanding the game. An absolutely dreadful player and the fact that Arteta rated Xhaka and now Havertz means I can’t have faith in him as our manager. He should be sacked for signing Havertz.
[/quote
Comedy gold
All WE need to know
Cut you some slack
Don't know what your looking at
In terms of understanding the game
Wilson's opinions are wrong because you and WE? know better than all the top pro football managers that pick said players
I would say your a narcissist but the WE has confused me
