Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Nick Nack]

Still amazed people want to replace Arteta. And so many are not even deliberate with who they would replace him with and would appear to be happy with anyone. De Zerbi always gets a mention, but look how rubbish Brighton are in defence. They concede chances and goals galore, whereas under Arteta we have become the best defensive team in the league. What's the appeal with De Zerbi? Just bizarre.

We also have Stan Kroenke's accountants complaining about how much players cost. Who gives a F how much someone costs. And how much longer can people keep melting over Haavertz when he is performing? Is your default position Havertz is shit? Just like its your default position Kieran Tierney should be the club captain?

I think the Havertz thing is weirder than the arteta situation to be honest. Arteta despite having the strongest defence in the league and deadliest attack has his own fans calling for his head still. (Admittedly mostly on the internet)

However Havertz ? Some folks have decided before he even kicked a ball for us that he wasn’t good enough and will maintain that even if he’s scoring goals and providing assists and impressing. He’s on 8 goals now this season his first at the club, I think if he hit 25 he’d still have people complaining about him. It’s a phenomenon like when everyone was stockpiling toilet paper during covid.

Come back to me when he plays well against a good team - nobody denying that these team performances have been very good of late but in those games we played ONE top team (the victims) and the german dud was shite

Precisely what I am saying, how he performs is irrelevant for some. He played well against Liverpool, his run behind the defence causes the first goal and the chaos he was causing got konate sent off. Newcastle aren’t a bad side and he caused chaos againest them too.

Plays well againest a good side?bloke scored the winning goal in a champions league final. Like I said it just doesn’t matter how he performs.

I love this "cause chaos" bullshit because it is so undefinable that a person can neither agree nor disagree with it I tell you he was shit against the victims and the only thing you can point out to defend him is when he was put through on goals in a 1 v 1 and fluffed his lines
I find it staggering that a grown man (assuming that is what you are) would use one goal in a 3 season spell of mediocrity at the chavs to justify him as a good player, and especially when that goal was scored almost 3 years ago !!

Augie you naughty boy, did no one tell when you did coaching courses that chaos is a new tactical discipline that is only understood by fanboys and should be used to convince nay sayers that someone is actually a good player

[Nick Nack]

You have to wonder once his favourites are back will he put them straight into the team.

I know jesus is coming back from an injury but he should of scored when one on one.

If Zinchenko plays again we will start conceding I guarantee it. It is no coincidence that our defensive record has improved immeasurably since he couldn't play. I NEVER want to see the ill disciplined shite-hawk play for us again. If Diet Pep brings him back our season will tank and it will also prove that Diet Pep will play his favourites instead of doing the best for the team.
Same with Jorginho and by playing him alongside Rice, how much better Rice is. DP will no doubt want to shoe horn Partey back in instead

[OneBardGooner]

^^^ What He Said ^^^

[Redarmy]

You have to wonder once his favourites are back will he put them straight into the team.

I know jesus is coming back from an injury but he should of scored when one on one.

If Zinchenko plays again we will start conceding I guarantee it. It is no coincidence that our defensive record has improved immeasurably since he couldn't play. I NEVER want to see the ill disciplined shite-hawk play for us again. If Diet Pep brings him back our season will tank and it will also prove that Diet Pep will play his favourites instead of doing the best for the team.
Same with Jorginho and by playing him alongside Rice, how much better Rice is. DP will no doubt want to shoe horn Partey back in instead

welll yes bringing back zinchenko woud be a critical mistake....we will ship goals....he just cant defend ...looks like hes never grasped the basics

That said im delighted the way we are playing now...scoring goals for fun...he is still annoying with his use of subs but hard to be critical the way we are playing....but...bigger tests to come than burnley and sheff utd

[DB10GOONER]

Two extremes here.... he is a shite manager, or he is the bestest in the whole world.

The realistic view is he is a flawed manager that has built a good first 11, but a wafer thin poor squad, and has the team on a great run. But for me, that's all it is, a great run. We have won nothing so a couple of you need to pull your knickers back on.

If we collapse in the run in again this season then he will have proven he is not up to the job. If he gets us second place I'd say he has earned the right to stay, given that the league this season seems a dead cert to go to manchester cheateh through financial corruption or the victims through VAR and refereeing corruption (again).

I'm enjoying this run of wins, and both Arteta and the players take great credit for that. But I have to be honest, we are literally one or two key injuries or one or two poor managerial decisions away from nosediving. The squad is that thin in quality.

Also, I'm starting to get the impression that fivetothree has snuck back on here with a new username......

[Retro Gunner]

Two extremes here.... he is a shite manager, or he is the bestest in the whole world.

The realistic view is he is a flawed manager that has built a good first 11, but a wafer thin poor squad, and has the team on a great run. But for me, that's all it is, a great run. We have won nothing so a couple of you need to pull your knickers back on.

If we collapse in the run in again this season then he will have proven he is not up to the job. If he gets us second place I'd say he has earned the right to stay, given that the league this season seems a dead cert to go to manchester cheateh through financial corruption or the victims through VAR and refereeing corruption (again).

I'm enjoying this run of wins, and both Arteta and the players take great credit for that. But I have to be honest, we are literally one or two key injuries or one or two poor managerial decisions away from nosediving. The squad is that thin in quality.

Also, I'm starting to get the impression that fivetothree has snuck back on here with a new username......

Spot on analysis in my opinion. Balanced and sensible, which means it shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this forum.

Even the last sentence makes sense, although I suspect that Viv is actually Wilson's alter ego.

[the playing mantis]

Two extremes here.... he is a shite manager, or he is the bestest in the whole world.

The realistic view is he is a flawed manager that has built a good first 11, but a wafer thin poor squad, and has the team on a great run. But for me, that's all it is, a great run. We have won nothing so a couple of you need to pull your knickers back on.

If we collapse in the run in again this season then he will have proven he is not up to the job. If he gets us second place I'd say he has earned the right to stay, given that the league this season seems a dead cert to go to manchester cheateh through financial corruption or the victims through VAR and refereeing corruption (again).

I'm enjoying this run of wins, and both Arteta and the players take great credit for that. But I have to be honest, we are literally one or two key injuries or one or two poor managerial decisions away from nosediving. The squad is that thin in quality.

Also, I'm starting to get the impression that fivetothree has snuck back on here with a new username......

Spot on analysis in my opinion. Balanced and sensible, which means it shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this forum.

Even the last sentence makes sense, although I suspect that Viv is actually Wilson's alter ego.

Why you little cock pussy! He would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids.

I think Wilson is a mental. But it takes all sorts. He simply ignores questions put to him and answers those that haven't been asked. Plus I think he has a hard on for de zerbi given how much he mentions him and his dislike. No problem with that either. Each to their own.

Would be good to answer augies questions though, although fiveforviv, I mean viv Anderson tache did and if alter ego I guess Wilson has roundabout answered them.

Nutty as ever pops up when we do well and has a pop at others and the forum (much like the brexit...!) Disappears when going gets tough like the run in last year and pretends his previous eulogising never happened. Comparisons to the invincibles...honestly.

Yes it's great we have beaten utter shite and victims in the last few games. But what about the 3 before new year. Let's see how we do come season end as many of us said before making huge judgements. Not bringing the awful (we all called ot) zinchenko back in for the improving kiwior will be a sign. Hes failing on the viera over esr one, esr is 10 times the potential player viera is.

We have a very good first xi minus striker (as ever some only think to the last few results...when we have 1 or 2 chances a game is when we need that striker) but as dB says thr squad is waifer thin. Saliba injury fcks us again as does a rice one.

Top 3 close to first and big gap to 4th acceptable as long as we get sf or very least qf of CL.

I make this basis on that the league is shite, bar ourselves city and victims, so a big gap to 4th is the bare minimum and we should be easily in cl qfs if not semis.

Scum rebuilding, united all over the place, headchopeprs suffering 2nd season syndrome and Chelsea a basket case. They will all get better at some point. Really last 2 years have been a free shot.

[Retro Gunner]

Two extremes here.... he is a shite manager, or he is the bestest in the whole world.

The realistic view is he is a flawed manager that has built a good first 11, but a wafer thin poor squad, and has the team on a great run. But for me, that's all it is, a great run. We have won nothing so a couple of you need to pull your knickers back on.

If we collapse in the run in again this season then he will have proven he is not up to the job. If he gets us second place I'd say he has earned the right to stay, given that the league this season seems a dead cert to go to manchester cheateh through financial corruption or the victims through VAR and refereeing corruption (again).

I'm enjoying this run of wins, and both Arteta and the players take great credit for that. But I have to be honest, we are literally one or two key injuries or one or two poor managerial decisions away from nosediving. The squad is that thin in quality.

Also, I'm starting to get the impression that fivetothree has snuck back on here with a new username......

Spot on analysis in my opinion. Balanced and sensible, which means it shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this forum.

Even the last sentence makes sense, although I suspect that Viv is actually Wilson's alter ego.

Why you little cock pussy! He would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids.

I think Wilson is a mental. But it takes all sorts. He simply ignores questions put to him and answers those that haven't been asked. Plus I think he has a hard on for de zerbi given how much he mentions him and his dislike. No problem with that either. Each to their own.

Would be good to answer augies questions though, although fiveforviv, I mean viv Anderson tache did and if alter ego I guess Wilson has roundabout answered them.

Nutty as ever pops up when we do well and has a pop at others and the forum (much like the brexit...!) Disappears when going gets tough like the run in last year and pretends his previous eulogising never happened. Comparisons to the invincibles...honestly.

Yes it's great we have beaten utter shite and victims in the last few games. But what about the 3 before new year. Let's see how we do come season end as many of us said before making huge judgements. Not bringing the awful (we all called ot) zinchenko back in for the improving kiwior will be a sign. Hes failing on the viera over esr one, esr is 10 times the potential player viera is.

We have a very good first xi minus striker (as ever some only think to the last few results...when we have 1 or 2 chances a game is when we need that striker) but as dB says thr squad is waifer thin. Saliba injury fcks us again as does a rice one.

Top 3 close to first and big gap to 4th acceptable as long as we get sf or very least qf of CL.

I make this basis on that the league is shite, bar ourselves city and victims, so a big gap to 4th is the bare minimum and we should be easily in cl qfs if not semis.

Scum rebuilding, united all over the place, headchopeprs suffering 2nd season syndrome and Chelsea a basket case. They will all get better at some point. Really last 2 years have been a free shot.

Good post Mantis. The need for a striker is key and as you say, it’s the big games with few chances where a natural goal scorer is required. It’s all well and good sharing the goals around against the dross teams, but that’s not so easy against the big boys. We’ve been on a good run, but it’s easy to forget the Porto game. They completely nullified our attacking force and we barely registered a shot on target, or any shots at all. That’s where you need a top quality striker to make a difference and get something out of nothing.

The other key point you make is that Arteta must not revert to playing favourites. We look far better balanced with Kiwior in a proper back four without Zinchenko roaming all over the park.

I’d forget about ESR. He should have demanded a move the summer before last. He’ll never get a chance under Arteta and needs to fuck off to save his career. He’s wasted 3 years already.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Some interesting points in the posts above. I agree that Kiwior should retain his place. We look more balanced and have more strength when he’s in the side. At the start of the season he was so dreadful performing that role but has come in in leaps and bounds. I don’t think it means Zinchenko is useless though he can absolutely get minutes in the right certain games where we need a more attacking outlook. We need a squad of players and we seem to be building that but for me Tommmy and Kiwior start first mostly.

I’m a big fan of ESR but believe he probably needs a move now. He hasn’t had enough minutes but when he does get them if we are all honest he doesn’t provide much end product that’s likely to turn the managers head. I think it’s a Hale end situation like Eddie where he gets a pass because he’s come through the ranks. The truth is our fans really over rate him a little and his best season came when he was playing wide left for the injured martinelli. He doesn’t look a natural fit anywhere else to me and Gabby isn’t getting dropped.

Vieira I disagree on. I do see his potential (although certainly not as a winger! I’m assuming that was to just get him minutes) and can see why we will be persisting with him. When fit His passing is more perceptive than almost anyone in the squad and if you look at the pass for the Nketiah goal at Fulham we have few players like that who can play those Kevin de bruyne type perceptive passes into areas of danger that didn’t exist,. He is however very lightweight right now for the PL and I can see why people do have doubts. I don’t think it’s beyond realism a breakout season could occur where we get an injury and he comes in and starts to impress.

Lastly I see some have been suggesting I’m an alter ego or something which I found really funny but sorry to disappoint isn’t true. I’m not somebody’s avatar or whatever. Wasn’t the geezer being suggested in the US or something ? Anyway I dunno. I’m just a season ticket holder from block 134 no longer living in London who commutes in for every game wondering why the club can’t get better lager than Camden wee. I’m pleased with the progress but acknowledge it’s far from certain Arteta will deliver the type of success we dream of. I think if we can just give him a bit more scope to refresh the squad we are on the right track as no club that gives minutes whatsoever to Nketiah, elneny, Cedric, Nelson etc will win major honours. There will be setbacks but we aren’t far now.

[the playing mantis]

Esr has done more in thr very brief minutes he's had with intent and purpose than klive or the Portuguese make a wish kid.

Some he hasn't but he's getting 5, 3, 10 minute spells. I'm sure someone with more time can list the minutes he's had. He cane on for about 30ish I think recently and looked promising and started and looked decent. He never gets more and impossible for him to get up to speed or show end product in such intermitnet and short spells. Some of that is fitness but niggles will always occur when coming back and having so few run outs.

Regardless he's shown more in those spells with intent and positive running than others.

On the other hand the managers fave viera gets 45 mins as soon as he's available again.

Esr should have been getting the same if he struggles so be it but we all j knows there's a top player in there.

Viera may be ok long term but has shown little to suggest it unlike esr who has actually done it in the first team.

[IW8Goalmachine]

Esr has done more in thr very brief minutes he's had with intent and purpose than klive or the Portuguese make a wish kid.

Some he hasn't but he's getting 5, 3, 10 minute spells. I'm sure someone with more time can list the minutes he's had. He cane on for about 30ish I think recently and looked promising and started and looked decent. He never gets more and impossible for him to get up to speed or show end product in such intermitnet and short spells. Some of that is fitness but niggles will always occur when coming back and having so few run outs.

Regardless he's shown more in those spells with intent and positive running than others.

On the other hand the managers fave viera gets 45 mins as soon as he's available again.

Esr should have been getting the same if he struggles so be it but we all j knows there's a top player in there.

Viera may be ok long term but has shown little to suggest it unlike esr who has actually done it in the first team.

There has to be some shit happening in the background.

I'm surprised Emery hasn't made a bid

[the playing mantis]

Esr has done more in thr very brief minutes he's had with intent and purpose than klive or the Portuguese make a wish kid.

Some he hasn't but he's getting 5, 3, 10 minute spells. I'm sure someone with more time can list the minutes he's had. He cane on for about 30ish I think recently and looked promising and started and looked decent. He never gets more and impossible for him to get up to speed or show end product in such intermitnet and short spells. Some of that is fitness but niggles will always occur when coming back and having so few run outs.

Regardless he's shown more in those spells with intent and positive running than others.

On the other hand the managers fave viera gets 45 mins as soon as he's available again.

Esr should have been getting the same if he struggles so be it but we all j knows there's a top player in there.

Viera may be ok long term but has shown little to suggest it unlike esr who has actually done it in the first team.

Not wanting to quote myself but to clarify he looked more effective than early days klive, I have said elsewhere by intent or luck klive seems to be better fit in the first xi and having more impact against the fodder than he was and than the feather or Jesus does and is our best option at no 9 currently. I have issue him playing in place of esr in the other positions.

[augie]

Esr has done more in thr very brief minutes he's had with intent and purpose than klive or the Portuguese make a wish kid.

Some he hasn't but he's getting 5, 3, 10 minute spells. I'm sure someone with more time can list the minutes he's had. He cane on for about 30ish I think recently and looked promising and started and looked decent. He never gets more and impossible for him to get up to speed or show end product in such intermitnet and short spells. Some of that is fitness but niggles will always occur when coming back and having so few run outs.

Regardless he's shown more in those spells with intent and positive running than others.

On the other hand the managers fave viera gets 45 mins as soon as he's available again.

Esr should have been getting the same if he struggles so be it but we all j knows there's a top player in there.

Viera may be ok long term but has shown little to suggest it unlike esr who has actually done it in the first team.

Not wanting to quote myself but to clarify he looked more effective than early days klive, I have said elsewhere by intent or luck klive seems to be better fit in the first xi and having more impact against the fodder than he was and than the feather or Jesus does and is our best option at no 9 currently. I have issue him playing in place of esr in the other positions.

There is a narritive among 2 or 3 on here that the german dud is coming good - for starters we are talking about games against shit opposition, but secondly he has scored 7 premier league goals in almost 1700 minutes on the pitch, whilst Trossard has scored the same amount of league goals in just over 900 minutes on the pitch.

[herbert]

Whisper it quietly but he is doing ok

Massive smiles from his fanboys in the away end on Monday ,we have celebrated 17 goals in 3 away games , unbelievable

I get that some on here have doubts and that's all good but for me if you are more bothered by writing paragraphs on all the negatives over all the positives these last 2 months then I think you are missing the point of following a football team

Taking White off for whatever reason and replacing him with Cedric is not something to bash a manager who is 5 or 6 nil up and most probably keen to make the best decision to try not to concede because of the extra point that goal difference can give you

Kai Havertz is playing well & scoring and more importantly for me is a cog in the current Arsenal wheel that is turning very nicely ATM so no need to keep stating that he his shit ,why? Just enjoy the wheel turning nicely

And slate it when it falls off



Sorry to be so blunt but it's all about opinions

[nut flush gooner]

Whisper it quietly but he is doing ok

Massive smiles from his fanboys in the away end on Monday ,we have celebrated 17 goals in 3 away games , unbelievable

I get that some on here have doubts and that's all good but for me if you are more bothered by writing paragraphs on all the negatives over all the positives these last 2 months then I think you are missing the point of following a football team

Taking White off for whatever reason and replacing him with Cedric is not something to bash a manager who is 5 or 6 nil up and most probably keen to make the best decision to try not to concede because of the extra point that goal difference can give you

Kai Havertz is playing well & scoring and more importantly for me is a cog in the current Arsenal wheel that is turning very nicely ATM so no need to keep stating that he his shit ,why? Just enjoy the wheel turning nicely

And slate it when it falls off



Sorry to be so blunt but it's all about opinions

Might be repeating myself, my head honestly spins on this forum with some of the discussions.

But on Monday I saw what reminded me of the Invincibles era, slick one touch passing the opposition not being able to get close to our team. Yeah it was only Sheff Utd, but not long ago this was a proper banana skin fixture for us to get bullied out of our game.

Yeah we have bigger tests to come, but the trajectory is going the right way. As you say, if you can't enjoy what Arsenal has done over the last month. What's the point?