Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[arrgee]

Call me old school if you like, but that to me is a total contradiction - natural defenders are not equally comfortable on the ball. Think TA6 or bouldie or keown and you are talking abour proper natural defenders who defended like their lives depended on it, but they were not comfortable ball players in the strictest sense. Also cos the cone boy wants to copy everything pep does, he needs an inverted full back who is comfortable on the ball, and not a centre back asked to go in to midfield and be a playmaker - you keep wanting to copy what pep does but the reality is that we dont have as many top quality players as they do so we need our own plan

Bould was a pretty good ball playing centre half.

[A11M11]

Football has changed for better or worse but players like our famous back 5 including Keown would have to adapt to have anything like the same success .
Firstly it's much faster, there have been many rule changes especially to the offside rule which they were so adept at operating.
I always find it amusing to listen to the pontifications of the dinosaur ex players that would be left flat footed by the speed that the ball moves in the modern game.
Some of them might be able to do it but many might not .

[Stuart L (2)]

Football has changed for better or worse but players like our famous back 5 including Keown would have to adapt to have anything like the same success .
Firstly it's much faster, there have been many rule changes especially to the offside rule which they were so adept at operating.
I always find it amusing to listen to the pontifications of the dinosaur ex players that would be left flat footed by the speed that the ball moves in the modern game.
Some of them might be able to do it but many might not .

You are absolutely correct, the old ploughing through the attacker from behind ( maybe getting a slight touch in the ball to justify it ) would be a sending off every week.

The ability of the youngsters, with both feet, speed, skill nowadays is breathtaking, so much better coaching at controlling a ball, emphasis on passing rather than “ clear it, get rid of it” attitude.

If you look back at 1989 a team we all love, so much of the style was hit it long to Smith, who invariably won it, flicked it on, etc.

I’m not saying we couldn’t play by any means, we were a great team with the likes of Rocastle and Merson, superb with the ball at their feet, but pitches in those days didn’t help, muddy bogs, goal areas covered in sand

Some from that era would be fine, others would be shown up for just being a physical presence

[nut flush gooner]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

[Gunner Rob]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

The signings last summer were certainly very good.
Just got to put things together over a whole season now. The first half of 22/23 season and second half of 23/24 season has been exceptional

[augie]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

Who are they exactly ?? His signings last summer were all full internationals ffs

[nut flush gooner]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

Who are they exactly ?? His signings last summer were all full internationals ffs

Was Havertz not a basket case at Chelski? Surely even you can see he's been turned from a dud to a vital player in the team?

[DB10GOONER]

Lads, this thread has become absolutely cringe inducing.

Can people please stop acting like scum and wet sham fans, posting stats as if they are the equivalent of trophies? It's embarrassing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but let's not resort to that low level of justification please.

This team that hasn't won anything has more points than the Invincibles? Jesus fucking wept.

Football is a results driven business. No one a hundred years from now will be talking about or giving a shit about "that Arteta team that accumulated more points than the Invincibles that one time".

They will however still be talking about the Invincibles that won the PL and went the whole season unbeaten.

Now if by some miracle cheateh fuck it up and we pounce to win this league, then yes this team and Arteta will be remembered and spoken of with the respect and glory they would rightly deserve.

[DB10GOONER]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

Who are they exactly ?? His signings last summer were all full internationals ffs

Was Havertz not a basket case at Chelski? Surely even you can see he's been turned from a dud to a vital player in the team?

Whilst Havertz has improved I don't agree he is vital. He misses as many if not more than he scores, he loses possession too often, and he has a tendency to drift out of games. Don't get me wrong I kinda like the guy, he has a bit of shithousery about him that upsets oppo players, he's not afraid to get stuck in, and he has improved hugely compared to the complete donkey we signed from the chav.

But "vital"? I don't think so. I think we could replace him quite easily with a better player. Buy if the question were just "has he improved under Arteta?" I'd agree 100% he has.

[Retro Gunner]

Lads, this thread has become absolutely cringe inducing.

Can people please stop acting like scum and wet sham fans, posting stats as if they are the equivalent of trophies? It's embarrassing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but let's not resort to that low level of justification please.

This team that hasn't won anything has more points than the Invincibles? Jesus fucking wept.

Football is a results driven business. No one a hundred years from now will be talking about or giving a shit about "that Arteta team that accumulated more points than the Invincibles that one time".

They will however still be talking about the Invincibles that won the PL and went the whole season unbeaten.

Now if by some miracle cheateh fuck it up and we pounce to win this league, then yes this team and Arteta will be remembered and spoken of with the respect and glory they would rightly deserve.

Ahh good ol' DB, another poor soul trying to bring balance and reason to the Online Gooner Forum. Give up my friend, otherwise you'll end up in a cell in an asylum, bound in a straitjacket, laughing maniacally.

You're dealing with people that for a decade or more bought the idea that 4th place was a trophy. Football isn't about winning silver pots, it's about stats that give you a warm feeling, like being the calendar year league champions and Denilson being the most efficient player in the Universe, with his countless 2 yard passes. Uncle Arsene weaved his gaslighting magic and the sheep bought the concept.

I've never really warmed to Arteta, but I like to think that he won't try to make capital of our points total if City win the league. Acknowledge it as further progression by all means, but don't paint it as some kind of victory. Wenger would have done so, but I suspect Arteta won't.

[Retro Gunner]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

Who are they exactly ?? His signings last summer were all full internationals ffs

Was Havertz not a basket case at Chelski? Surely even you can see he's been turned from a dud to a vital player in the team?

Whilst Havertz has improved I don't agree he is vital. He misses as many if not more than he scores, he loses possession too often, and he has a tendency to drift out of games. Don't get me wrong I kinda like the guy, he has a bit of shithousery about him that upsets oppo players, he's not afraid to get stuck in, and he has improved hugely compared to the complete donkey we signed from the chav.

But "vital"? I don't think so. I think we could replace him quite easily with a better player. Buy if the question were just "has he improved under Arteta?" I'd agree 100% he has.

That's a very fair assessment in my opinion, even verging on the generous. He's improved for sure, but he's way off the quality that a team hoping to challenge for the big prizes needs.

The bit in red is a big issue. Twice on Sunday against the mancs, around the 40th minute, he lost possession in the middle of the park and both times it put us in danger.

[augie]

About time Arteta was given a new long-term contract IMO. He thoroughly deserves it for what he's done especially over the last few seasons.

The culture at the club is back to what it used to be, all the players respect him and he is starting to bring in players with untapped potential that are now making big contributions to the team.

Who are they exactly ?? His signings last summer were all full internationals ffs

Was Havertz not a basket case at Chelski? Surely even you can see he's been turned from a dud to a vital player in the team?

Vital in the sense that the other options are the non scoring jesus or the feather nketieh, then yes he is the main man, but he is far from irreplaceable and factoring in that on sunday he was up against a geriatric evans and a disinterested past his best casemiro, I dont think you can claim that he lit the place up Palace had the useless mateta up front against manu and those two useless c.unts made him look like peak Henry ffs, and yet apart from setting up the goal havertz done fcuk all against them (he was far from alone tbf).

You have seen many top class players play for AFC over the years so have witnessed some great strikers who were actual top quality so it isnt as though you have nothing much to compare havertz with - I could easily list 15 strikers we had in the last 20-30 years that were far better than havertz, and I would go so far as to to say that in early wenger years we had back up strikers better than havertz

[augie]

Btw you cant claim "untapped potential" about full internationals - untapped potential suggests young unproven players who has yet to come to the attention of the bigger footballing world, but havertz is an experienced full international who also scored winning goal in champs league final so somebody somewhere thought something about him

[DB10GOONER]

Actually I have a legit question for the Arteta Knows Best / Rose Tinted / Delusional cultists that only come on here to have a pop when we win but fucking disappear when we lose.....

ONLY KIDDING YOU GIMPS!

Only kidding.

But here is a genuine question:

Some of you that are convinced that Arteta has earned a new long term contract, how long are you willing to wait for him to win a league title?

Given, it's coming up on 5 years this December since he was appointed, and he's spent over 700million, how long should we give him to deliver a title? Or should we just become wet sham and brag about playing "the right way" but never winning the major trophies? Is that acceptable for a club the size of the Arsenal with our history and pedigree?

For me he has to win at the very least another FA Cup next season. That's the bare minimum. But he has to deliver the title either next season or the one after that. Any longer than that and he needs to be replaced. Cue Wilson with screeches of "but who could we replace him with?! I hate Di Zerbi! Boohoohoo!"

Of course if he wins the title this season, the question is redundant.

[EssexGooner1981]

Actually I have a legit question for the Arteta Knows Best / Rose Tinted / Delusional cultists that only come on here to have a pop when we win but fucking disappear when we lose.....

ONLY KIDDING YOU GIMPS!

Only kidding.

But here is a genuine question:

Some of you that are convinced that Arteta has earned a new long term contract, how long are you willing to wait for him to win a league title?

Given, it's coming up on 5 years this December since he was appointed, and he's spent over 700million, how long should we give him to deliver a title? Or should we just become wet sham and brag about playing "the right way" but never winning the major trophies? Is that acceptable for a club the size of the Arsenal with our history and pedigree?

For me he has to win at the very least another FA Cup next season. That's the bare minimum. But he has to deliver the title either next season or the one after that. Any longer than that and he needs to be replaced. Cue Wilson with screeches of "but who could we replace him with?! I hate Di Zerbi! Boohoohoo!"

Of course if he wins the title this season, the question is redundant.

Good question and I'll answer from my point of view (I hope I'm not too delusional haha).

I guess it depends on your predisposition; some people gauge their happiness purely on whether trophies are won. I am largely happy when we play attractive football and it entertains me, that's my bare minimum. I would not be happy if our football wasn't entertaining.

Trophies are the icing on the cake obviously, and that is why the team competes in leagues and cups, I get that. Although I'd still eat cake that wasn't iced. Some people support teams that probably will not win a trophy in their lifetime. It depends on why you watch and love football.

If this team keeps on the upward trend that it has been for the last 4 years I cannot see how it will not start winning trophies. If we do not, then I'd say we would have to be statistically unlucky. I think Liverpool will not be the same next year and hopefully City will be in the Dulux Paint Division, so the chance of trophy winning is going to increase.

However if by the end of the next season there isn't a trophy then yes I'd say the team is underachieving. Whether that's the team's fault for bottling a final, or whether that's by pure unluck, I'lll make that judgement this time next year. I think the team has given a lot this year. Yes some league results didn't go our way, but I don't expect a team to not lose or draw games. I think in general the team has done alright this year and like I said, it's currently an upward trend.

Players and managers are not exempt from criticism, they get a paid a fuckton, but if they have shown me good performances and attitude over 95% of their playing time, I'm ok with that.

I dunno, hopefully that's a balanced viewpoint.