Have to agree with the description. Utterly ashamed and embarassed tonight.AA23Northbank wrote:He just did. WankerChippy wrote:You can e mail your MP using this website
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/
If you put in your postcode it works out who your MP is and a gives you an option to e mail them. It is very, very easy.
I'll be very surprised if Don Foster votes for increases in tuition fees.
Safe standing bid launched in Parliament
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AA23Northbank
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AA23Northbank
Taking my personal dislike for Don Foster out of the equation, I really want standing back. 90% of fans want standing back. But we don't want to go back to the dilapidated, old, unsafe terraces. We want to move forward, to have an environment in which we can stand as we choose and watch the game safely, pay lower prices and generate some atmosphere and enjoy ourselves, just like the Germans do on their terraces. Fans who want to stand are sick of being treated like shit by Nazi stewards and all we ask for is a CHOICE. Clubs like Liverpool and Everton don't have to put standing sections in if they consider it inappropriate, but those who want to stand should have the choice to stand and those who want to sit should sit. It's common sense really? Hopefully the politicians and clubs realise the will of the fans and do the right thing and allow standing back into our grounds 
Sorry, back to tuition fees for just one post.
I can kind of understand why some Lib Dems felt the need to abstain rather than vote against the bill. But I can't understand why others felt the need to so passionately support the bloody thing when they'd spent the election saying they were going to get rid of fees altogether...!
And if people truly believe that University Students should pay up to £9,000 for the privilege then why stop there? Why not charge all kids a fee just for going to school? They can pay it back when they get a paper round or babysit.
Equally, if you believe in Trident or the need to keep the Falkland Islands then you pay for it. I'm happy to opt out of both - even if it means I'll never get the chance to visit & see the penguins.
Anyway, it's a global market so all it means is that kids here will go and study abroad (my daughter is in the 6th form and is already looking at Dublin) and those who do study here will then go and work abroad to avoid having to repay the loan!
I can kind of understand why some Lib Dems felt the need to abstain rather than vote against the bill. But I can't understand why others felt the need to so passionately support the bloody thing when they'd spent the election saying they were going to get rid of fees altogether...!
And if people truly believe that University Students should pay up to £9,000 for the privilege then why stop there? Why not charge all kids a fee just for going to school? They can pay it back when they get a paper round or babysit.
Equally, if you believe in Trident or the need to keep the Falkland Islands then you pay for it. I'm happy to opt out of both - even if it means I'll never get the chance to visit & see the penguins.
Anyway, it's a global market so all it means is that kids here will go and study abroad (my daughter is in the 6th form and is already looking at Dublin) and those who do study here will then go and work abroad to avoid having to repay the loan!
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Barriecuda
- Posts: 2651
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:39 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
As with many arguments in the world, the actual facts - supported by statistics and examples - are droned out by the public press, populist opinion and emotions. "Standing is disaster! We're all going to be crushed!" That kind of nonsense really holds back a smart discussion on the subject.
There's no doubt the standing sections of the 80s and early 90s (culminating in Hillsborough) were grossly inadequate. However, we're 20-30 years on, and I think in the modern day we're capable of doing much better in architecture and engineering than dilapidated Anfield could. It would be difficult for someone to disagree with that.
The likelihood is though, I don't think clubs would get behind it even if it was allowed again. "Standing" is unfortunately associated with the lewd antics of the old days; drunkenness, violence, the kind of rowdiness that is bad for business and ruins the "family game". Clubs - and this isn't just Arsenal we're talking about - prefer a family-friendly atmosphere and image; they're better for marketing and allows for a wider market to sell tickets and merchandise to.
Even if standing were allowed by the big clubs, I think it would be highly regulated. I feel that's the right thing to do - particularly in limiting strictly the number of entrants into that section - but I get the impression that the regulations would extend to things like "no beverages in the standing sections" and a standing police presence actually IN the section.
Sadly for the game (and society in general), I think the classic football ground is no more. Too many people have ruined it for everyone else.
There's no doubt the standing sections of the 80s and early 90s (culminating in Hillsborough) were grossly inadequate. However, we're 20-30 years on, and I think in the modern day we're capable of doing much better in architecture and engineering than dilapidated Anfield could. It would be difficult for someone to disagree with that.
The likelihood is though, I don't think clubs would get behind it even if it was allowed again. "Standing" is unfortunately associated with the lewd antics of the old days; drunkenness, violence, the kind of rowdiness that is bad for business and ruins the "family game". Clubs - and this isn't just Arsenal we're talking about - prefer a family-friendly atmosphere and image; they're better for marketing and allows for a wider market to sell tickets and merchandise to.
Even if standing were allowed by the big clubs, I think it would be highly regulated. I feel that's the right thing to do - particularly in limiting strictly the number of entrants into that section - but I get the impression that the regulations would extend to things like "no beverages in the standing sections" and a standing police presence actually IN the section.
Sadly for the game (and society in general), I think the classic football ground is no more. Too many people have ruined it for everyone else.
Talk her out of it bruv, DB10's over there.MK Gould wrote:Anyway, it's a global market so all it means is that kids here will go and study abroad (my daughter is in the 6th form and is already looking at Dublin) and those who do study here will then go and work abroad to avoid having to repay the loan!
She'll come back walking sideways.
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marcengels
- Posts: 7208
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 11:12 pm
- Location: North Bank
AA23Northbank wrote:Taking my personal dislike for Don Foster out of the equation, I really want standing back. 90% of fans want standing back. But we don't want to go back to the dilapidated, old, unsafe terraces. We want to move forward, to have an environment in which we can stand as we choose and watch the game safely, pay lower prices and generate some atmosphere and enjoy ourselves, just like the Germans do on their terraces. Fans who want to stand are sick of being treated like shit by Nazi stewards and all we ask for is a CHOICE. Clubs like Liverpool and Everton don't have to put standing sections in if they consider it inappropriate, but those who want to stand should have the choice to stand and those who want to sit should sit. It's common sense really? Hopefully the politicians and clubs realise the will of the fans and do the right thing and allow standing back into our grounds
I wonder how they describe stewards in Germany...
everyone needs to get behind this, whether you're interested in standing or not imo. It's about having the choice.
It's no good saying "it'll never happen". It'll definitely never happen if that's the attitude. One MP has been brave enough to get his head up above the parapet and try and encourage some discussion on the issue. Fans Forum/REDaction can push the club to maybe be the first to lend some public backing for it.
It takes 2 minutes to write a few sentences to your MP. The link is there for you. Do it.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Safe-Standin ... iament.php
It's no good saying "it'll never happen". It'll definitely never happen if that's the attitude. One MP has been brave enough to get his head up above the parapet and try and encourage some discussion on the issue. Fans Forum/REDaction can push the club to maybe be the first to lend some public backing for it.
It takes 2 minutes to write a few sentences to your MP. The link is there for you. Do it.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Safe-Standin ... iament.php
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Rosie_titters
- Posts: 5491
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 pm
- Location: Aberystwyth
So if we were sat down then we wouldn't have jumped up and down after a goal?MK Gould wrote:There was also a good phone in this morning on 5live if you get the chance to hear it online later. Some good points made.
Brum away last year though proved to me the dangers of standing in a seated area. When we scored and, again when they equalised, it was mayhem. I'm amazed no-one got seriously injured. Standing areas would be far safer!
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Chips and Chocolate
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:48 am
- Location: N7
So if we were sat down then we wouldn't have jumped up and down after a goal?[/quotegazzaa2 wrote:MK Gould wrote:There was also a good phone in this morning on 5live if you get the chance to hear it online later. Some good points made.
Brum away last year though proved to me the dangers of standing in a seated area. When we scored and, again when they equalised, it was mayhem. I'm amazed no-one got seriously injured. Standing areas would be far safer!
You missed the point gazza (**** *word censored*), standing in a seated area is more dangerous than standing in a standing area!!!
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GunnerRyan
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:52 am
- Location: Romford
finally got a letter from my mp today:
Thank you for contacting me, regarding Safe Standing in football stadia. Lord Justice Taylor recommended twenty years ago that standing be abolished at matches in the top two leagues. This was in light of a series of incidents at football games, of which the Hillsborough disaster, where nearly 100 died and many more were injured, was the most dreadful.
I hope you will agree that most football grounds, for a number of reasons, are safer and more comfortable than they were 15 or 20 years ago. Whilst I understand why many supporters miss the tradition, the feel and the atmosphere that some grounds had before, statistics are less likely to be injured at all-seater grounds than at those that retain standing accommodation. I also understand that those who manage, license or certify stadia generally hold the view that the introduction of all-seated stadia has helped to improve crowd management and the crowd behaviour.
Seating also offers higher standards of comfort and provides spectators with their own defensible spaces, which can only contribute to encouraging families and increasing the diversity of those attending football matches in recent years. The Football Licensing Authority (FLA) considered the 'Kombi' system, which is used in Germany, on the government's behalf in 2001. It concluded that while it was well engineered, the current design of English grounds would not allow for the installation of this system without substantial investment by clubs, including, in some cases, the complete rebuilding of stands.
The minister for Sport, Hugh Robertson, has expressed doubt that a compelling case has been made to change the policy on standing areas. But he and I shall continue to follow with interest any developments or further representations that are made on this subject
If you would like to discuss this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact me at any time.
with every good with.
Yours sincerely
Andrew Rosindell M.P
least i got a lengthy reply..
Thank you for contacting me, regarding Safe Standing in football stadia. Lord Justice Taylor recommended twenty years ago that standing be abolished at matches in the top two leagues. This was in light of a series of incidents at football games, of which the Hillsborough disaster, where nearly 100 died and many more were injured, was the most dreadful.
I hope you will agree that most football grounds, for a number of reasons, are safer and more comfortable than they were 15 or 20 years ago. Whilst I understand why many supporters miss the tradition, the feel and the atmosphere that some grounds had before, statistics are less likely to be injured at all-seater grounds than at those that retain standing accommodation. I also understand that those who manage, license or certify stadia generally hold the view that the introduction of all-seated stadia has helped to improve crowd management and the crowd behaviour.
Seating also offers higher standards of comfort and provides spectators with their own defensible spaces, which can only contribute to encouraging families and increasing the diversity of those attending football matches in recent years. The Football Licensing Authority (FLA) considered the 'Kombi' system, which is used in Germany, on the government's behalf in 2001. It concluded that while it was well engineered, the current design of English grounds would not allow for the installation of this system without substantial investment by clubs, including, in some cases, the complete rebuilding of stands.
The minister for Sport, Hugh Robertson, has expressed doubt that a compelling case has been made to change the policy on standing areas. But he and I shall continue to follow with interest any developments or further representations that are made on this subject
If you would like to discuss this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact me at any time.
with every good with.
Yours sincerely
Andrew Rosindell M.P
least i got a lengthy reply..
