Protest Saturday

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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GoonerMuzz
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by GoonerMuzz »

To be honest i think RedAction and BSM have just sank our battleship.

These calculated statements, especially the RedAction one, are designed to look good but they are actually going to cause more harm to the protest than help for it.

Why if you want change would you then state 'print your own banners even if they are pro-manager'?

I know that i'm a blatant cynic but It sounds more like the supporters group have had an ear bashing from the club and have been asked to make an effort to get as many people to the game as possible, the image of so many empty seats the other night did not look good and it must have been embarrassing for the club to claim a 59000+ crowd when it blantantly looked more like 50k if not less.

The statements intimate that something is wrong but never really come close to making an outright statement on what.

It's been a while since i've seen something so blatantly written by a PR manager, lots of meaningless statements which never come to a conclusion, why have both fan groups purported to support a protest but not actually stated what they think is the underlying issue?

'Something is wrong at our club', you're right RedAction, but you don't state exactly what you believe that to be, as a supporters group you should be leading from the front not hiding behind vague statements :banghead:

armchair
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by armchair »

Exactly right mate. A bunch of spineless c unts doing more harm than good

Redarmy
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Redarmy »

GoonerMuzz wrote:To be honest i think RedAction and BSM have just sank our battleship.

These calculated statements, especially the RedAction one, are designed to look good but they are actually going to cause more harm to the protest than help for it.

Why if you want change would you then state 'print your own banners even if they are pro-manager'?

I know that i'm a blatant cynic but It sounds more like the supporters group have had an ear bashing from the club and have been asked to make an effort to get as many people to the game as possible, the image of so many empty seats the other night did not look good and it must have been embarrassing for the club to claim a 59000+ crowd when it blantantly looked more like 50k if not less.

The statements intimate that something is wrong but never really come close to making an outright statement on what.

It's been a while since i've seen something so blatantly written by a PR manager, lots of meaningless statements which never come to a conclusion, why have both fan groups purported to support a protest but not actually stated what they think is the underlying issue?

'Something is wrong at our club', you're right RedAction, but you don't state exactly what you believe that to be, as a supporters group you should be leading from the front not hiding behind vague statements :banghead:

Yes hear what you are saying.....strange they suddenly get involved now.....and previously remained very quiet on the subject

Looking at BSM post...would think below is accurate description...

A manager who seems to be past his best, refusing to adapt to the modern game and dragging us down through lack of signings, poor tactics, predictable poor performances, and not being able to get the best from his team.

But yes if they wanted to hijack this cause and then derail it going the right way about it......

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Just wondering what is more damaging to the club, a few thousand people raising banners in a full ground that the TV cameras can conveniently miss due to on pitch action or them being turned off as we switch back to the studio at the end of the match or a ground which has lots of empty seats which is much harder to cover up as the cameras pan round throughout the match. :rubchin:

As i said i'm a complete cynic when it comes to Arsenal 'Brand' PLC these days and i may be reading too much into things but it just feels staged that these statements have come out just as things being done by the fans themselves appear to be picking up steam :box:

Pete on the beach
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Pete on the beach »

GoonerMuzz wrote:Just wondering what is more damaging to the club, a few thousand people raising banners in a full ground that the TV cameras can conveniently miss due to on pitch action or them being turned off as we switch back to the studio at the end of the match or a ground which has lots of empty seats which is much harder to cover up as the cameras pan round throughout the match. :rubchin:

As i said i'm a complete cynic when it comes to Arsenal 'Brand' PLC these days and i may be reading too much into things but it just feels staged that these statements have come out just as things being done by the fans themselves appear to be picking up steam :box:
As I said the banners need to keep happening then it's ok, the key thing can be that this can get a lot of the masses who want change but will only follow if somethings happens . Believe me the public/media will read the term " time for a change" as about Wenger , it has debated enough recently for that

Clash
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Clash »

GoonerMuzz wrote:To be honest i think RedAction and BSM have just sank our battleship.

These calculated statements, especially the RedAction one, are designed to look good but they are actually going to cause more harm to the protest than help for it.

Why if you want change would you then state 'print your own banners even if they are pro-manager'?

I know that i'm a blatant cynic but It sounds more like the supporters group have had an ear bashing from the club and have been asked to make an effort to get as many people to the game as possible, the image of so many empty seats the other night did not look good and it must have been embarrassing for the club to claim a 59000+ crowd when it blantantly looked more like 50k if not less.

The statements intimate that something is wrong but never really come close to making an outright statement on what.

It's been a while since i've seen something so blatantly written by a PR manager, lots of meaningless statements which never come to a conclusion, why have both fan groups purported to support a protest but not actually stated what they think is the underlying issue?

'Something is wrong at our club', you're right RedAction, but you don't state exactly what you believe that to be, as a supporters group you should be leading from the front not hiding behind vague statements :banghead:
Some excellent points mate, sadly I think you're probably right.

Who knows how deep this goes? As Lenin said ''The best way to control the opposition is to lead it''.

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Chippy
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Protest Saturday

Post by Chippy »

I'm starting a new thread on this as I think it is important. However I can't be arsed to move all the posts on other threads on to this one. This is what started it.

http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php ... x_Pq6QrLDc
How you can make your feelings known if you feel Arsenal has gone stale on Saturday v Norwich

Fans will have the opportunity to make their feelings known about the direction of the club at Saturday’s home match against Norwich. Here are statements from two of the leading supporters’ groups at Arsenal…


Print from the links and hold up on 12 and 78 minutes and at full time
Black Scarf Movement statement

TIME FOR CHANGE
Have your say when we play Norwich

The current season has been one of massive disappointment for Arsenal fans, with the campaign fizzling out in a depressingly limp fashion.

Over the past few years - massively so in recent months - increasing number of supporters have become fed up with the club. There are a number of reasons for this, including...

• Our majority shareholder, Stan Kroenke, showing he's purely motivated by cash when he went on record to say he doesn't care if Arsenal are not challenging for honours.
• A complacent Board with absolutely no football experience, focusing purely on Arsenal as a profit-generating entity, not a football club.
• A Board happy with Kroenke milking millions of pounds out of the club every year, and refusing to give valid details of what the payments relate to.
• Being sold the vision of moving stadium to compete with Europe's elite. We're now close financially but in a football sense we're probably as far from the top European sides as we have been for many years.
• A huge amount of cash sitting in the bank and comments from Ivan Gazidis that we can buy pretty much anybody, yet the money remains banked and our squad remains lacking in key areas, year after year.
• A manager who seems to be past his best, refusing to adapt to the modern game and dragging us down through lack of signings, poor tactics, predictable poor performances, and not being able to get the best from his team.
• Consistent failure to challenge for football's big prizes and using 4th place finishes as a cause for celebration, when all Champions League football means is more income for the Board to celebrate.

Basically speaking, Arsenal Football Club has gone stale.
We are seeing the same failures year after year, and amid rumours that Arsene Wenger may be given a new three-year contract there really seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. Kroenke and the Board are seemingly content with Champions League cash, so outside of finishing 4th best in the league there is no pressure at all on the manager. This isn't good enough.

It's time for change.
Whether it's the manager, whether Stan Kroenke has to go and whether the Board needs shaking up and reminding that we're a FOOTBALL club, change is needed at Arsenal, A fresh approach to bring some excitement back to this great club of ours.

Have your say
We host Norwich this coming Saturday in what's become a pretty meaningless end of season kickabout. At this game we would like as many fans as possible to show their desire for change at Arsenal by holding up signs demanding that action is taken. We've seen Coventry City do this successfully at Emirates already, and abroad there has been massive success with this approach.

On this page you can see an image of a sign declaring TIME FOR CHANGE at Arsenal. Click here to download a copy; then print it off and if you can, print as many copies as possible and hand out to people you know are going to the game. We'll also try to get copies in pubs around the ground and handed out near the stadium on the day.

When to hold up your TIME FOR CHANGE sign
We ask that all fans hold these signs aloft on 12 minutes, and 78 minutes (12 minutes from the end of the match). Then at the final whistle hold them up again. We'd love to see a consistent effort in highlighting this message and hope people join in. There have been huge numbers of people saying it's time to protest, so now is your chance.

Up The Gunners.

REDaction statement

TIME FOR CHANGE - Have your say at the Norwich game

It's pretty clear that things aren't right at Arsenal.

We have an absentee owner who takes money from the club whilst not engaging with fans. We have a manager who won't use the resources available to him, to strengthen a squad which everybody can see needs investment. Throw in some of the highest ticket prices in world football. And, all of the Groundhog seasons, where it's clear that the fans' ambitions are not matched by those in charge.

Fans are fighting each other over what exactly is wrong and who is to blame - but it's clear that we are in a rut, and that something needs to change.

Lots of people have opinions on how fans can make our voices heard. At Saturday's game against Norwich, we (along with other fans' groups – the BSM for starters) are calling on fans to send a co-ordinated message - together we are stronger.

What we are asking fans to do:
Before the game - print as many copies of this image as you can (colour or B&W, whatever size you can). Give them to friends who are going to the game.
• At the game - we are asking fans to hold these signs up on 12 minutes (the number of years since we last won the title), and again on 78 minutes (12 minutes from the end). Then, at the end, we are asking fans to stay behind, hold the signs up again, and make your voices heard.

Why this, and why now?
We believe that the only way to ensure our voices are heard, is by getting lots of people involved. A huge banner held up by four people is one thing - signs held by thousands of people are quite another.
• Lots of people have advocated a walkout, or a boycott of the Aston Villa game. Thousands of Arsenal fans walk out 10 minutes before the end of games anyway, and there were thousands of empty seats at the West Brom game. So, would anybody notice the difference?
• The Aston Villa game is unlikely to be on TV now, so this is our last chance to make a big impression at a home game.
• We are encouraging the most vocal protest to be after the final whistle, so no suggestion that this should affect the team. And it goes without saying, during the game please give your maximum (and loud) support to the players on the pitch.
Finally, if you don't agree with the sentiment that things need to change at Arsenal, get involved in your own way. If you don't like what the sign says, make and print your own, and hold that up instead. Apathy achieves nothing - and talk is cheap in the pub and on the internet - we need fans to get involved. Something is wrong at our club - and only change will unite the fanbase again. See you on Saturday.
I have read all the posts saying the focus should be on Wenger, and I agree, but I am a pragmatist and am thinking this is the only real opportunity we will get this season to have any say. There are loads of seats available and I am going to buy one, even though I haven't been to the bowl for about 3 years. I am going to print my own Anti-Wenger sheets. My only dilemma is whether to sit behind the *word censored*, or immediately opposite the tunnel as that is where the cameras always rest.

We're never going to get a perfect moment or message so let's at least use this one.

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hartson
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Re: Protest Saturday

Post by hartson »

how about a banner that says "justice for the 60,260"

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Sean
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Sean »

I hope the protests continue relentlessly, despite any possible co-opting of the message :barscarf:

I do agree that The Old Fraud must be targeted first, before Kroenke.

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begeegs
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by begeegs »

GoonerMuzz wrote:To be honest i think RedAction and BSM have just sank our battleship.

These calculated statements, especially the RedAction one, are designed to look good but they are actually going to cause more harm to the protest than help for it.

Why if you want change would you then state 'print your own banners even if they are pro-manager'?

I know that i'm a blatant cynic but It sounds more like the supporters group have had an ear bashing from the club and have been asked to make an effort to get as many people to the game as possible, the image of so many empty seats the other night did not look good and it must have been embarrassing for the club to claim a 59000+ crowd when it blantantly looked more like 50k if not less.

The statements intimate that something is wrong but never really come close to making an outright statement on what.

It's been a while since i've seen something so blatantly written by a PR manager, lots of meaningless statements which never come to a conclusion, why have both fan groups purported to support a protest but not actually stated what they think is the underlying issue?

'Something is wrong at our club', you're right RedAction, but you don't state exactly what you believe that to be, as a supporters group you should be leading from the front not hiding behind vague statements :banghead:
I am not sure that agree with this. Why would the club want even more attention aimed in it's direction regarding our abortion of a season? They certainly wouldn't be quaking in their boots regarding any sort of protest because there really hasn't been any sort of voice before, so a credit should be due to the groups who are trying to do something. The empty seats are another matter and I would agree that this hurts brand image, but to be fair something is better than nothing at this stage. These groups also do not want to alienate their supporters which is probably why the AST bowed out.

If it was the Gooner organizing any sort of protest, then we know that there would be a near unanimous view and some of it wouldn't be very gracious towards Wenger and that's the thing - there are some who only just joined wanting Wenger out, but will not berate the guy which is why you get these groups who are angry, but must word in a way to cover all angles and not piss people off or turn them away. You only have to read the Arseblog report on the protest to see what kind of idiots that we have to deal with when it comes to being unhappy with our lack of ambition.

That being said, if the bowl is filled up with people holding up 'I love Arsene' signs, then you have a valid point :D

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northbank123
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Re: Protest Saturday

Post by northbank123 »

Glad the supporters groups - not that they represent any fans I know - finally acknowledging that we are in a horrendous rut and that things have long gone stale.

Pretty half-baked and measly-mouthed as statements go with Wenger's central role in our constant failure making up little more than a footnote - but I do think that widespread discontent of any sort will be a good backdrop for those who want to protest properly about Wenger. Unfortunately Sunday showed that Sky will happily ignore the banners if it suits their agenda whereas thousands of people holding up cards is more difficult to ignore.

jaggygooner
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Re: Protest Saturday

Post by jaggygooner »

Excuse me , Arsene old chap, but in view of our recent slight lull in proceedings perhaps you might,some time in the future, wish to pursue other opportunities that may present themselves to you, in the fullness of time of course. Perhaps you could have a little tet a tet with your follicly challenged American employer about a similar course of action, absolutely no rush you understand!

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Bradywasking
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Bradywasking »

I think Wenger has to be the main target of the protests, he is responsible for the wellbeing of the club but sees his greater responsibility to the owner..Target Kronke also but diluting the protest against Wenger gives his disciples a way to worm out.
Someone stated earlier in this thread that having Wenger as manager proves Arsenal have no ambition and that is true as is the reverse in saying Wenger staying as manager proves he has no ambition.. The clear out must be inclusive of all but the target must be Wenger as he has let this malaise happen. He should have stood up to them or fucked off..He done neither because he was happy in his £8m a year comfort zone.

Jumpers For Goalposts
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Jumpers For Goalposts »

Pete on the beach wrote:Guardian reporting the protest http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... rwich-city
Just read this article and the one below it on the Left Wing Guardian website about Wenger.

For fucks sake why are pundits and journalists so dimwitted and slow on the uptake???? The article is basically "How dare fans question such a wonderful manager" before going on to point out that he is unsuccessful, stubborn, arrogant, predictable, living off past glories, never going to change, etc etc etc.

Journos and pundits get paid handsomely each time they set foot inside a football stadium whereas we pay fortunes to watch our teams. Can't any of them work out why we're so pissed off????? :banghead:

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Chippy
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Re: THE WENGER THREAD

Post by Chippy »

Jumpers For Goalposts wrote:
Pete on the beach wrote:Guardian reporting the protest http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... rwich-city
Just read this article and the one below it on the Left Wing Guardian website about Wenger.

For fucks sake why are pundits and journalists so dimwitted and slow on the uptake???? The article is basically "How dare fans question such a wonderful manager" before going on to point out that he is unsuccessful, stubborn, arrogant, predictable, living off past glories, never going to change, etc etc etc.

Journos and pundits get paid handsomely each time they set foot inside a football stadium whereas we pay fortunes to watch our teams. Can't any of them work out why we're so pissed off????? :banghead:
Must have been reading different articles. Fairly clear they are saying his day's are numbered, but obviously because it is in a "Left Wing" newspaper, it has to be wrong.

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