Kai Havertz

[Clummo99]

I think he'll be ok for us. Good luck, Kai.

I would suggest that we have enough "ok" players, and if we are to progress then we need quality additions - havertz isnt anywhere near top quality

Absolutely. He has been utter shit for 3 years but then so have the chav$.

Of course alot depends on where and how we play him. Hopefully he will hit the ground running and come good but I won't hold my breath.

Strong reports in today's papers that he is going to be played in xhaka's position - havent the arteta apologists being telling us that arteta loves smith-rowe and is planning on playing him there ? Kills me to say it but I really hope for his sake that smith-rowe leaves this summer and goes to play for a manager that wants him

I've been saying this on here for ages. The boy needs to move on for the good of his career, otherwise he'll end up like so much of the promising young talent whose careers Wenger ruined. Didn't want to play them, but too much of a coward to let them go. Finally moved them on when they were about 24 yrs of age and had been bench warming and on loan to lower league sides. The Ox should have moved after his breakthrough season, but hung around and his career was fucked.

ESR was behind not only Xhaka, but also Vieira last season , so he didn't really need anymore evidence that he was surplus to requirements, but now Havertz is in front of him. Someone people will now be on with some line about his fitness and diet, which seems to be a product of their own imagination, because I've read no stories about such issues. Happy to retract that if there are any links. Anyway, I hope he moves on and has a fabulous career.

Plenty of reports and articles going back a couple of years regarding his poor eating and drinking habits. Also plenty about his lack of fitness due to many niggly injuries, particularly the groin problem.

I'll start you with one but Google is your friend Retro, I ain't doing it all for you mate!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp

[TeeCee]

ESR has already said he wants to stay and fight for his place.

He needs to show more when he gets a chance, towards the end of the season he had a few cameos and was totally underwhelming in all of them. He didn't even look fit and yet he must be and coming on for 10-30 mins you should be busting a gut. There was a story going around that Arteta had a chat with him because his attitude was not good. Hopefully he's back on it for pre-season because if he hit his old form it's priceless for us.
The good news is, if Havertz starts slowly, we have good options to come in...... And I don't mean our 12yo Portuboy Vieira!!

[Clummo99]

They even brought a personal chef in to prepare his evening meals, aiming for him to kick the take aways habit.

Can't criticise that but the boy needs to do his part.

[SPUDMASHER]

I seem to recall that ESR was injured for the best part of this season just gone. Would he have been ahead of Viera if he'd been fit? I don't know the answer to that but with Havertz having arrived I think he'll struggle to get any game time.

[Retro Gunner]

I would suggest that we have enough "ok" players, and if we are to progress then we need quality additions - havertz isnt anywhere near top quality

Absolutely. He has been utter shit for 3 years but then so have the chav$.

Of course alot depends on where and how we play him. Hopefully he will hit the ground running and come good but I won't hold my breath.

Strong reports in today's papers that he is going to be played in xhaka's position - havent the arteta apologists being telling us that arteta loves smith-rowe and is planning on playing him there ? Kills me to say it but I really hope for his sake that smith-rowe leaves this summer and goes to play for a manager that wants him

I've been saying this on here for ages. The boy needs to move on for the good of his career, otherwise he'll end up like so much of the promising young talent whose careers Wenger ruined. Didn't want to play them, but too much of a coward to let them go. Finally moved them on when they were about 24 yrs of age and had been bench warming and on loan to lower league sides. The Ox should have moved after his breakthrough season, but hung around and his career was fucked.

ESR was behind not only Xhaka, but also Vieira last season , so he didn't really need anymore evidence that he was surplus to requirements, but now Havertz is in front of him. Someone people will now be on with some line about his fitness and diet, which seems to be a product of their own imagination, because I've read no stories about such issues. Happy to retract that if there are any links. Anyway, I hope he moves on and has a fabulous career.

Plenty of reports and articles going back a couple of years regarding his poor eating and drinking habits. Also plenty about his lack of fitness due to many niggly injuries, particularly the groin problem.

I'll start you with one but Google is your friend Retro, I ain't doing it all for you mate!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp

Hold on a minute, that article is almost 2 years old (Nov '21) and refers to his eating habits that predated the 2021-22 season. It's making the point that his eating habits have improved and that he's "been a revelation this season".

So, it bears no relation to the freezing out we've seen in the last 18 months. I can find nothing that suggests his diet has regressed and that's why Arteta hasn't been playing him.

Frankly, he could be 2 stone overweight and wheezing away with a chest infection and I'd still pick him over Xhaka and Vieira. This boy needs to leave the club and build a career eslewhere. I'd be gutted to see him go, but no point him being here if he isn't being played. I'd be more gutted to see such a talent be wasted.

[Clummo99]

Absolutely. He has been utter shit for 3 years but then so have the chav$.

Of course alot depends on where and how we play him. Hopefully he will hit the ground running and come good but I won't hold my breath.

Strong reports in today's papers that he is going to be played in xhaka's position - havent the arteta apologists being telling us that arteta loves smith-rowe and is planning on playing him there ? Kills me to say it but I really hope for his sake that smith-rowe leaves this summer and goes to play for a manager that wants him

I've been saying this on here for ages. The boy needs to move on for the good of his career, otherwise he'll end up like so much of the promising young talent whose careers Wenger ruined. Didn't want to play them, but too much of a coward to let them go. Finally moved them on when they were about 24 yrs of age and had been bench warming and on loan to lower league sides. The Ox should have moved after his breakthrough season, but hung around and his career was fucked.

ESR was behind not only Xhaka, but also Vieira last season , so he didn't really need anymore evidence that he was surplus to requirements, but now Havertz is in front of him. Someone people will now be on with some line about his fitness and diet, which seems to be a product of their own imagination, because I've read no stories about such issues. Happy to retract that if there are any links. Anyway, I hope he moves on and has a fabulous career.

Plenty of reports and articles going back a couple of years regarding his poor eating and drinking habits. Also plenty about his lack of fitness due to many niggly injuries, particularly the groin problem.

I'll start you with one but Google is your friend Retro, I ain't doing it all for you mate!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp

Hold on a minute, that article is almost 2 years old (Nov '21) and refers to his eating habits that predated the 2021-22 season. It's making the point that his eating habits have improved and that he's "been a revelation this season".

So, it bears no relation to the freezing out we've seen in the last 18 months. I can find nothing that suggests his diet has regressed and that's why Arteta hasn't been playing him.

Frankly, he could be 2 stone overweight and wheezing away with a chest infection and I'd still pick him over Xhaka and Vieira. This boy needs to leave the club and build a career eslewhere. I'd be gutted to see him go, but no point him being here if he isn't being played. I'd be more gutted to see such a talent be wasted.

That's why I said "going back a couple of years"

The boy obviously struggles and at times people regress to bad habits.

[Retro Gunner]

Strong reports in today's papers that he is going to be played in xhaka's position - havent the arteta apologists being telling us that arteta loves smith-rowe and is planning on playing him there ? Kills me to say it but I really hope for his sake that smith-rowe leaves this summer and goes to play for a manager that wants him

I've been saying this on here for ages. The boy needs to move on for the good of his career, otherwise he'll end up like so much of the promising young talent whose careers Wenger ruined. Didn't want to play them, but too much of a coward to let them go. Finally moved them on when they were about 24 yrs of age and had been bench warming and on loan to lower league sides. The Ox should have moved after his breakthrough season, but hung around and his career was fucked.

ESR was behind not only Xhaka, but also Vieira last season , so he didn't really need anymore evidence that he was surplus to requirements, but now Havertz is in front of him. Someone people will now be on with some line about his fitness and diet, which seems to be a product of their own imagination, because I've read no stories about such issues. Happy to retract that if there are any links. Anyway, I hope he moves on and has a fabulous career.

Plenty of reports and articles going back a couple of years regarding his poor eating and drinking habits. Also plenty about his lack of fitness due to many niggly injuries, particularly the groin problem.

I'll start you with one but Google is your friend Retro, I ain't doing it all for you mate!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp

Hold on a minute, that article is almost 2 years old (Nov '21) and refers to his eating habits that predated the 2021-22 season. It's making the point that his eating habits have improved and that he's "been a revelation this season".

So, it bears no relation to the freezing out we've seen in the last 18 months. I can find nothing that suggests his diet has regressed and that's why Arteta hasn't been playing him.

Frankly, he could be 2 stone overweight and wheezing away with a chest infection and I'd still pick him over Xhaka and Vieira. This boy needs to leave the club and build a career eslewhere. I'd be gutted to see him go, but no point him being here if he isn't being played. I'd be more gutted to see such a talent be wasted.

That's why I said "going back a couple of years"

The boy obviously struggles and at times people regress to bad habits.
[/quote


No, we really don’t know that he “obviously struggles”. He was still pretty much a kid back in 2019/20 and like a lot of youngsters might well have been eating badly. He was put straight and I’ve seen no evidence that he’s regressed.

He may have and he may not have, but people on here have offered that as a reason why he’s been frozen out for 18 months and there seems to be no evidence for that. It’s pure speculation, which is unfair on the boy. Far more likely that Arteta didn’t fancy him, because he was never averse to dropping him even when he was playing well. Being behind Xhaka and stick man Vieira ought to tell you all you need to know. He’s now likely to be behind Havertz. Time for ESR to move on and build a career.

[Clummo99]

This past season was more to do with injury and fitness, as I also said.

Mate if you don't want to do a bit of your own research as I did, it's all easily found on the Internet from credible sources, and just want to maintain the unfounded pessimistic view then that's your right I suppose. It's not the kind of standpoint that I want to debate with really.

Why take time to search out the story when you can just sit there and gripe.

[Retro Gunner]

This past season was more to do with injury and fitness, as I also said.

Mate if you don't want to do a bit of your own research as I did, it's all easily found on the Internet from credible sources, and just want to maintain the unfounded pessimistic view then that's your right I suppose. It's not the kind of standpoint that I want to debate with really.

Why take time to search out the story when you can just sit there and gripe.

Mate, I took your advice and all I can come up with are a whole string of articles written around the same time as the one you linked to, Nov 2021. Forgive me for not wanting to spend a week and half looking for articles, but a fairly reasonable search brought nothing up about his diet since that time.

It’s not unreasonable to ask people where their information is from if they link his lack of game time in the last 18 months to his lifestyle. As I said previously, if they have no evidence, then it’s pure groundless speculation.

As for “griping”, what am I supposed to be griping about? I’m disappointed that the boy gets no game time and can’t see that changing. We don’t yet know if Xhaka is definitely fucking off, so ESR is potentially behind him, Odegaard, Havertz, Vieira and Trossard, all who play or can play in an advanced midfield role and who Arteta seems to favour over ESR.

Two to three years ago I thought ESR was the most exciting prospect the club had developed for years...decades in fact...and during the first third of the season before last, he was the stand out player in the side. Yes, injuries interfered, but even when fit, Arteta showed no real desire to get him back in the side and now it looks like there are too many in front of him. It’s not griping to want to see the boy move on and build the kind of career I believe he’s capable of. Sadly, I can’t see him getting the chance at the Arsenal.

Gripe over.

[Clummo99]

A 5 minute Google search whilst I sat on the toilet


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... in-problem


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... in-problem


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 915811.amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footba ... 564156.amp

Particularly interesting for me was the piece that quoted from the All or Nothing documentary. If ESR isn't doing what the coaching staff expect and know that he can do then that's something that needs to be addressed.

People on here were similarly up in arms about Martinelli a couple of season back and the way that all parties dealt with that seems to have had a positive effect on the whole. I've continually said that no fan knows what's going on behind the scenes, what's happening on the training ground etc.

There is always a lot more to any supposed problem than we as fans will ever know. The game is all about opinions but I like to think that I'm a reasoned and balanced bloke that likes to get as much info as possible before snapping to judge. Or does that make me a bit nerdy?

Anyway, issue closed as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure one thing we all agree on is that we love ESR, hope that things can get sorted and he pushes on to have an excellent career in an Arsenal shirt.

Peace my friend.

(I deliberately didn't quote your reply for the sake of McDowell's sanity. That would have been developing into a bit of a quote tower. )

[mcdowell42]

Appreciate that Clummo ,don't have quote towers on twitter so its easier to navigate

[Retro Gunner]

A 5 minute Google search whilst I sat on the toilet


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... in-problem


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... in-problem


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 420964.amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 915811.amp


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footba ... 564156.amp

Particularly interesting for me was the piece that quoted from the All or Nothing documentary. If ESR isn't doing what the coaching staff expect and know that he can do then that's something that needs to be addressed.

People on here were similarly up in arms about Martinelli a couple of season back and the way that all parties dealt with that seems to have had a positive effect on the whole. I've continually said that no fan knows what's going on behind the scenes, what's happening on the training ground etc.

There is always a lot more to any supposed problem than we as fans will ever know. The game is all about opinions but I like to think that I'm a reasoned and balanced bloke that likes to get as much info as possible before snapping to judge. Or does that make me a bit nerdy?

Anyway, issue closed as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure one thing we all agree on is that we love ESR, hope that things can get sorted and he pushes on to have an excellent career in an Arsenal shirt.

Peace my friend.

(I deliberately didn't quote your reply for the sake of McDowell's sanity. That would have been developing into a bit of a quote tower. )

Well, this started with me saying that people would start talking about ESR's diet as the possible (or likely) reason for the apparent freezing out. The only reports of that go back to 2021 when he himself was interviewed and says he'd improved his eating habits and the club had sent him a chef. That's it, no more you or I can find that it's been an issue since then. That was my sole point.

I accept that injuries have been an issue and your toilet links above detail that. It remains to be seen whether or not he'll get game time, because from where I stand, he's not an Arteta favourite and there's quite a few ahead of him. Sad as I'd be to see it, if he isn't going to figure in things, then he needs to move on for the sake of his career.

We'll see what transpires and as you say, most of us would love to see him involved.

Peace brother and I hope you sanitised that phone after using it on the kharzi.

[augie]

Fcuk me - not alone have we vastly over paid on a transfer fee for this dud, but now he is the top paid player in the club too ????

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/22896359 ... -transfer/

Over 100k per week more than next highest earner

[mcdowell42]

The Sun ,Augie join me on twitter for the real stories

[Retro Gunner]

Fcuk me - not alone have we vastly over paid on a transfer fee for this dud, but now he is the top paid player in the club too ????

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/22896359 ... -transfer/

Over 100k per week more than next highest earner

Yeah, I read that somewhere else too. If it's true, then it's absolutely staggering. I imagine that Saka, Martinelli and Saliba might well be knocking on Arteta's door.