Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by DB10GOONER »

Apologies, when I mention "Leno" I do of course mean "Butter Wrists". :lol: :wink:

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augie
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:37 am
augie wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:48 am
Clummo99 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:21 am
augie wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:09 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:16 am


I like "The Process". You know where you stand with it.

It has led us from a situation where we had a brilliant keeper (Martinez) and a good if error prone keeper (Leno) to where we now have the error prone keeper and probably some new complete piece of shit keeper.

Believe.

Have faith.

The Process.

:barscarf:


*Oh, where "we stand" is knee deep in dog shit.



My one issue with that post is that so many people seem to have now anointed martinez as "brilliant", when the reality is that this time last year he simply did not have the body of work to suggest that he was good enough, and even this season gone by he produced enough howlers to suggest that he is a very good keeper, but not at the level of great or brilliant yet. I still belief that martinez was sold and leno was kept purely because there was an offer on the table for martinez and we needed the money - had the villa offer have been for leno, then I think we would have sold leno instead, but maybe I am wrong believing that.
Right now I hope leno is sold this summer as long as he isnt replaced by ramsdale - in the last few summers I have been looking around at outfield players and trying to suss out who would be a good buy for us, and tbh I dont have a clue what keeper options are there for us right now. I do know that ramsdale is not the answer unless we can buy him at £10m to have as a back up, because if leno isnt the answer, then ramsdale certainly isnt
He was brilliant in the lead up to him being sold. Even Messi and Ronaldo misplace passes and shank shots into the crowd. Doesn't make them less of a player.

The big one I can't fathom is Matt Ryan. Did very well when called upon but not even a sniff of interest reported from us when he was available on a free.

The cynic in me says there's no kickbacks available with free transfers :lol:



Ah yes but havent Gooners on here pointed many times at players from other clubs who had a golden spell and were classed as outstanding, when the reality is that they had a short spell in the middle of a good but not outstanding career ? Rob Lee is cited as one of those, Alex Manninger was another, and I would suggest that ramsey could be included too, but history is full of those players
Firstly, Martinez was brilliant and has been brilliant for Villa (despite you and rodders jumping on any slight error he might make :lol: ) with 15 clean sheets equalling their club record. But you know what - EVERY footballer makes errors. It's the number of "unforced" errors and stupid mistakes that matter. Leno makes far more.

Secondly, we didn't get to see if it was just a "spell of form" for Martinez, so you can't compare him to Rob Lee who was bang average all of his career before, and all of his career after, that one season of brilliance. Ditto Ramsey, shite until he had that one half a season of brilliance and then utter shite ever since. Those cases are proven "spell of form".

Maninger was a kid when we signed him so again is not a good comparison as we had nothing to compare his form to.

At the moment, Martinez waited almost ten years for his chance (most of it under a manager you totally deride) and then proved to be brilliant for us and has (so far) sustained that level for villa and possibly is getting even better.



The problem with stats is that sometimes they can be very misleading - like the one that says that we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league last season, even though we know that leno isnt of the required level, and (Tierney apart) the defence has been shambolic on occasions

You rightly point out that martinez didnt get much of a chance under the senile french fool, but I still think that it is a huge red flag when not one of the lower division clubs he went on loan to, actually showed any interest in signing him. I cant remember at any stage reading or hearing any comments from the club that suggested that martinez was unsellable, so why did no-one try to sign him ? My concern with martinez is that we just dont know yet if he is having his 5 mins in the sun right now and will soon revert to average, or if he is top quality and just wasnt given a chance until now - I seen a good few fans suggesting that the lack of fans at games might be a factor in his sudden show of quality and that when they return he will shit himself again, but again the demands and pressure wouldnt be near as high at villa so maybe that issue wont arise

A11M11
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by A11M11 »

If you wish to watch it . here goes ;- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0v9d8DcHpo

It's about learning lessons apparently.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:56 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:37 am
augie wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:48 am
Clummo99 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:21 am
augie wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:09 am





My one issue with that post is that so many people seem to have now anointed martinez as "brilliant", when the reality is that this time last year he simply did not have the body of work to suggest that he was good enough, and even this season gone by he produced enough howlers to suggest that he is a very good keeper, but not at the level of great or brilliant yet. I still belief that martinez was sold and leno was kept purely because there was an offer on the table for martinez and we needed the money - had the villa offer have been for leno, then I think we would have sold leno instead, but maybe I am wrong believing that.
Right now I hope leno is sold this summer as long as he isnt replaced by ramsdale - in the last few summers I have been looking around at outfield players and trying to suss out who would be a good buy for us, and tbh I dont have a clue what keeper options are there for us right now. I do know that ramsdale is not the answer unless we can buy him at £10m to have as a back up, because if leno isnt the answer, then ramsdale certainly isnt
He was brilliant in the lead up to him being sold. Even Messi and Ronaldo misplace passes and shank shots into the crowd. Doesn't make them less of a player.

The big one I can't fathom is Matt Ryan. Did very well when called upon but not even a sniff of interest reported from us when he was available on a free.

The cynic in me says there's no kickbacks available with free transfers :lol:



Ah yes but havent Gooners on here pointed many times at players from other clubs who had a golden spell and were classed as outstanding, when the reality is that they had a short spell in the middle of a good but not outstanding career ? Rob Lee is cited as one of those, Alex Manninger was another, and I would suggest that ramsey could be included too, but history is full of those players
Firstly, Martinez was brilliant and has been brilliant for Villa (despite you and rodders jumping on any slight error he might make :lol: ) with 15 clean sheets equalling their club record. But you know what - EVERY footballer makes errors. It's the number of "unforced" errors and stupid mistakes that matter. Leno makes far more.

Secondly, we didn't get to see if it was just a "spell of form" for Martinez, so you can't compare him to Rob Lee who was bang average all of his career before, and all of his career after, that one season of brilliance. Ditto Ramsey, shite until he had that one half a season of brilliance and then utter shite ever since. Those cases are proven "spell of form".

Maninger was a kid when we signed him so again is not a good comparison as we had nothing to compare his form to.

At the moment, Martinez waited almost ten years for his chance (most of it under a manager you totally deride) and then proved to be brilliant for us and has (so far) sustained that level for villa and possibly is getting even better.



The problem with stats is that sometimes they can be very misleading - like the one that says that we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league last season, even though we know that leno isnt of the required level, and (Tierney apart) the defence has been shambolic on occasions

You rightly point out that martinez didnt get much of a chance under the senile french fool, but I still think that it is a huge red flag when not one of the lower division clubs he went on loan to, actually showed any interest in signing him. I cant remember at any stage reading or hearing any comments from the club that suggested that martinez was unsellable, so why did no-one try to sign him ? My concern with martinez is that we just dont know yet if he is having his 5 mins in the sun right now and will soon revert to average, or if he is top quality and just wasnt given a chance until now - I seen a good few fans suggesting that the lack of fans at games might be a factor in his sudden show of quality and that when they return he will shit himself again, but again the demands and pressure wouldnt be near as high at villa so maybe that issue wont arise
All very possible of course. And there's no guarantee that 2 years from now Martinez won't be worse than Leno.

For me the key issue is that, at the time, the club made the mistake of selling Martinez and keeping Butter Wrists as he had already proven he was far more error prone than most keepers not just Martinez.

For me again, the evidence is that Martinez has barely put a foot or glove wrong since he got his chance, whereas Leno has continuously made unforced howlers.

I said at the time we should have manned the fuck up and kept both and made them scrap it out for the jersey. I still think we should have. Competition for places is the only way to go. And even better if the two competing aren't exactly fond of each other! :lol:

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OneBardGooner
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by OneBardGooner »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:46 am
Apologies, when I mention "Leno" I do of course mean "Butter Wrists". :lol: :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:



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gooner265
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Re: Arsenal 4 - Watford 1 (Friendly)

Post by gooner265 »

A11M11 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:23 pm
If you wish to watch it . here goes ;- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0v9d8DcHpo

It's about learning lessons apparently.
Lesson being Leno needs to fucked off as well as Elneny.

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