djhdjh - great analysis.
Agreed it's imperative to finish in top 4 which I guess is why Gazidis didn't let Arshavin slip through the net.
I reiterate - I have no problem whatsoever with fans voicing their discontent, indeed we should be unhappy at players like Diaby and Denilson earning so much when they haven't proved themselves yet. My issue is with the method used - I think it's totally counter-productive if you support a team to boo them during a game.
There was the march organised in support of Wenger (which was over the top really). So I think something similar could be done with those fans who wish to air greivances. It just shouldn't be done during games. We should be trying to help the team win as much as we can, and try to address these other issues outside of game-time.
The worst fans in the world?
The thing is, the options for showing displeasure are a) sparse and b) basically all criticised by the majority. What can you do?
You can boo… this is seen as negative and counter productive. You can not turn up… you are accused of being a glory hunter, only around for the good times. You could organise a protest march… pretty extreme and I don’t think anyone is any where near that stage yet. So what do you do?
I thought Wenger’s reaction after the shareholders meeting was interesting when he said he was surprised that the shareholders were annoyed because the value of the shares keep going up, whereas he would understand fans not being happy. He didn’t seem to realise the people who criticised him were actually fans first and foremost and weren’t in it for the money but because they wanted a voice at the club.
What really bugs me is that whenever I am critical of Wenger I am slated but people seem to think I want him to fail. Nothing would give me greater pleasure for Wenger to turn things around and take us to glory. I just don’t see it happening, he has gone down a road which he is too proud to admit is wrong. And now with the chasing pack being bought out by the mega rich, the future of the club is at stake despite what the current board will have you believe.
You can boo… this is seen as negative and counter productive. You can not turn up… you are accused of being a glory hunter, only around for the good times. You could organise a protest march… pretty extreme and I don’t think anyone is any where near that stage yet. So what do you do?
I thought Wenger’s reaction after the shareholders meeting was interesting when he said he was surprised that the shareholders were annoyed because the value of the shares keep going up, whereas he would understand fans not being happy. He didn’t seem to realise the people who criticised him were actually fans first and foremost and weren’t in it for the money but because they wanted a voice at the club.
What really bugs me is that whenever I am critical of Wenger I am slated but people seem to think I want him to fail. Nothing would give me greater pleasure for Wenger to turn things around and take us to glory. I just don’t see it happening, he has gone down a road which he is too proud to admit is wrong. And now with the chasing pack being bought out by the mega rich, the future of the club is at stake despite what the current board will have you believe.
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Exiled-Gooner
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I think a large majority of fans believe that Wenger must have had his eyes opened this season that his policy of a team of youngsters WON'T win the title or C/L and the quality of youngsters playing in the team are just not good enough or there need a couple of experienced players ,such as Arshavin,in essential positions to mould them into a dominating team.Some are calling for his head,that's there prerogative,but most believe that next season he should produce a trophy or at least construct a team that REALLY does challenge for honours.
When ferguscum had his young players he also had a core of experience he could rely on and we all know what happened but Wenger since the invincible season has not replaced the lose of our experienced players for the like which at the time would have been easier than it is now.Wenger changed the way football is played but we don't play like that anymore consistently,instead of quick passing and runs into spaces or our midfielders coming late into the box like freddy did,we dwell on a pass or the players look lost or stump at what to do next(not going to mention adecrapwhore).We seemed to have stagnanated while the likes of Everton and Villa have progressed and our 3 main rivals have gone forward?.I know money is a factor and i know we are better off than 90% of world teams in the way we are run but if the wenger doesn't admit that his youth policy is not going according to plan then i feel that we be caught up by others and drop behind the top 3 further than we are now!!.
It's a case of how long are we suppose to wait to see this young team start bringing in title and trophies while still paying top prices that part of the questioned?when will wenger say enough and start to rectify the problem?Edelman got the finance for the grove on a mortage basis i believe and i think i read that the board have a pot put away in case we miss C/L to cover repayments but this summer wenger has to go to the board and say ''if you want ARSENAL to stay 1 of the top teams in the world and bring in millions from fans etc,etc,etc then i must have these players and this much dosh''.It's not a case we haven't won anything since 2005 it's the way we have falling behind the others and the players we let go and the players brought that has angered the majority and the missed opportunities,like FA semi this year,and non action in dealing with it all.Hopefully wenger will turn it round next season i hope so!!!
When ferguscum had his young players he also had a core of experience he could rely on and we all know what happened but Wenger since the invincible season has not replaced the lose of our experienced players for the like which at the time would have been easier than it is now.Wenger changed the way football is played but we don't play like that anymore consistently,instead of quick passing and runs into spaces or our midfielders coming late into the box like freddy did,we dwell on a pass or the players look lost or stump at what to do next(not going to mention adecrapwhore).We seemed to have stagnanated while the likes of Everton and Villa have progressed and our 3 main rivals have gone forward?.I know money is a factor and i know we are better off than 90% of world teams in the way we are run but if the wenger doesn't admit that his youth policy is not going according to plan then i feel that we be caught up by others and drop behind the top 3 further than we are now!!.
It's a case of how long are we suppose to wait to see this young team start bringing in title and trophies while still paying top prices that part of the questioned?when will wenger say enough and start to rectify the problem?Edelman got the finance for the grove on a mortage basis i believe and i think i read that the board have a pot put away in case we miss C/L to cover repayments but this summer wenger has to go to the board and say ''if you want ARSENAL to stay 1 of the top teams in the world and bring in millions from fans etc,etc,etc then i must have these players and this much dosh''.It's not a case we haven't won anything since 2005 it's the way we have falling behind the others and the players we let go and the players brought that has angered the majority and the missed opportunities,like FA semi this year,and non action in dealing with it all.Hopefully wenger will turn it round next season i hope so!!!
Spot on. And as for this "we will be OK when the debt is paid off" - that assumes that the club maintains a revenue stream which allows the debt to be paid off, which in turn means CL football for many years to come. When Man City take the last place in the top four, I hope the rose-tinters are still talking about the merits of the sustainable business model and what a wonderful stadium we haveNBN wrote:As has said before if you are treated like customers then you will behave like customers.
We were moved to the concrete bowl (which the writer describes as 'fabulous'??????) with promises of big money signings to rival Chelsea and Man United, it was seen by many supporters as a neccesary evil. Where are these signings and the sucesses? This is what fans have a problem with and in my opinion it is totally justified. Or we could just bury or heads in the sand and say that everthing rosy whilst the board are busy filling their pockets and destroying the history of our great club.
"When George Graham was the gaffer, we started to win things again, after a bare decade. Yes the football was like watching paint dry, but who cared, our trophy cabinet was busy. Then he left and we started to turn back into the team we were before. Rubbish. But hey, we had Dennis Bergkamp and Wrighty, so maybe we could get to the semis of the UEFA Cup or something. Then he was replaced by Le Boss. This guy not only revolutionised everything about the game on and off the pitch, but in his first full season we won the double. We started playing football with flair and class. Players were brought in with skill, pace and an eye for goal instead of the cumbersome players of the past. "
Sometimes I don't think anyone was there before 1998.
From 1986 - 1991 Arsenal played with heaps of flair with players like Rocastle, Merson and Limpar all providing plenty of magical moments. OK, After they lost to Benfica and Ian Wright was signed it changed, but the two championship winning side had flair to spare. In George's first season they won the League Cup. Wenger actually won the double in his second season, he started in September. Maybe not a full season but as near as dammit.
Also when Graham left, Rioch came in and did a pretty decent job with Bergkamp and Platt arriving and providing a fair amount of flair and class. They reached the semis of the League Cup (it was a big deal!) and qualified for Europe. In fact, many people didn't understand why he was sacked at the end of that season.
Back on topic... As for the fans, there are three good reasons why the fans are crap.
i) They are new affluent fans (post-1998 bondholders and prawn circle members) who just expect to match Man U regardless.
ii) They are old fans, who are at least middle-aged and have had their season tickets since year dot and are well able to moan.
iii) There are no teenagers. When I was a teenager I used to follow Arsenal everywhere, these days they'd do well to afford a seat.
Arsenal probably aren't unique in this, but the above goes someway to explaining why fans were better pre-Premiership/Wenger. If you have Arsenal TV, check out Arsenal Gold pre-Wenger and you'll see what I mean.
Sometimes I don't think anyone was there before 1998.
From 1986 - 1991 Arsenal played with heaps of flair with players like Rocastle, Merson and Limpar all providing plenty of magical moments. OK, After they lost to Benfica and Ian Wright was signed it changed, but the two championship winning side had flair to spare. In George's first season they won the League Cup. Wenger actually won the double in his second season, he started in September. Maybe not a full season but as near as dammit.
Also when Graham left, Rioch came in and did a pretty decent job with Bergkamp and Platt arriving and providing a fair amount of flair and class. They reached the semis of the League Cup (it was a big deal!) and qualified for Europe. In fact, many people didn't understand why he was sacked at the end of that season.
Back on topic... As for the fans, there are three good reasons why the fans are crap.
i) They are new affluent fans (post-1998 bondholders and prawn circle members) who just expect to match Man U regardless.
ii) They are old fans, who are at least middle-aged and have had their season tickets since year dot and are well able to moan.
iii) There are no teenagers. When I was a teenager I used to follow Arsenal everywhere, these days they'd do well to afford a seat.
Arsenal probably aren't unique in this, but the above goes someway to explaining why fans were better pre-Premiership/Wenger. If you have Arsenal TV, check out Arsenal Gold pre-Wenger and you'll see what I mean.
