Cesc Fabregas - The Most Overrated Player In The Prem?

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:48 pm

CYGooner wrote:The only way you can really judge how over/under/correctly rated Cesc is would be for him to be out of the side for a long period, which he was at the end of last season. While we coped without him, I would say that we failed to play football to the same standard as we do when he's in the side. I believe there were at least 4/5 0-0 draws in that period as well, suggesting he is vital to our attacking play, and as such would possibly look better on the pitch with someone doing the dirty work a la flamini.

I think that the media/fans are justified in building him up as he is a class player, and in the case of the fans if we look beyond him who else do we have to rely on? RVP and Arshavin are our other two world class players, ones injured and the other is workshy and has been all season. (I think Russia going out provided a good excuse for Wenger to justify a dip in form.)

i still think that is unfair to alexander song not to acknoledge the good work he's been doing as the dirty-worker. he's not as mobile as flamini was, but he is stronger, tackles well, steals the ball, and is a lot stronger in the air. still has to improve, i know, but is one of our best players this season.

oh, and i'd add rosicky to the 'arsenal's top class players' list. he just hasn't been fit enough, but his class in unbelievable.

CYGooner · Post by **CYGooner** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:
CYGooner wrote:The only way you can really judge how over/under/correctly rated Cesc is would be for him to be out of the side for a long period, which he was at the end of last season. While we coped without him, I would say that we failed to play football to the same standard as we do when he's in the side. I believe there were at least 4/5 0-0 draws in that period as well, suggesting he is vital to our attacking play, and as such would possibly look better on the pitch with someone doing the dirty work a la flamini.

I think that the media/fans are justified in building him up as he is a class player, and in the case of the fans if we look beyond him who else do we have to rely on? RVP and Arshavin are our other two world class players, ones injured and the other is workshy and has been all season. (I think Russia going out provided a good excuse for Wenger to justify a dip in form.)
i still think that is unfair to alexander song not to acknoledge the good work he's been doing as the dirty-worker. he's not as mobile as flamini was, but he is stronger, tackles well, steals the ball, and is a lot stronger in the air. still has to improve, i know, but is one of our best players this season.

oh, and i'd add rosicky to the 'arsenal's top class players' list. he just hasn't been fit enough, but his class in unbelievable.

I am a massive Song fan, and think he has done a great job for the most part this season but still we would do better with a more mobile DM. Flamini didnt have the brute strength to take all players head on but when he couldnt do that he pestered them, kept up with them and chased back. That was enough to disrupt the play, if not win the ball.

I agree with the Rosicky comment actually, but I'd again say that if fans look past Fabregas we cant rely on Rosicky still as he has been injured/unfit for the last 2 years.

CYGooner · Post by **CYGooner** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 pm

Double post sorry.

jonny3110 · Post by **jonny3110** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:46 pm

DB10GOONER wrote:
jonny3110 wrote:Anyone who dislikes C'esc at our club, or who thinks he is even slightly overrated please do f**k right off as you are talking out of your arse, and probably never even kicked a ball in your life, because if you think he is even slightly overrated you have no opinion of football that is worth listening to. I know football is about opinions, but talking s**t is not an opinion!!!
What are you trying to say, mate? Don't be shy...

Dont really know how to be any clearer on the matter! The guy is an absolutely unbeleivable player and would walk into any team in the world. FACT. If you think he's overrated, you cannot judge football in my opinion and are completely spoilt with a player of his class at your club. In the top 5 centre mids to ever play for us easy, and probs the only player to get into the invincibles on his current form! Simples!

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:48 pm

jonny3110 wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
jonny3110 wrote:Anyone who dislikes C'esc at our club, or who thinks he is even slightly overrated please do f**k right off as you are talking out of your arse, and probably never even kicked a ball in your life, because if you think he is even slightly overrated you have no opinion of football that is worth listening to. I know football is about opinions, but talking s**t is not an opinion!!!
What are you trying to say, mate? Don't be shy...
Dont really know how to be any clearer on the matter! The guy is an absolutely unbeleivable player and would walk into any team in the world. FACT. If you think he's overrated, you cannot judge football in my opinion and are completely spoilt with a player of his class at your club. In the top 5 centre mids to ever play for us easy, and probs the only player to get into the invincibles on his current form! Simples!

I was being sarcastic, mate!

I rate Cesc very highly. He has had bad spells but every player does. I think with the right players around him he would develop into a true great.

northbankbren · Post by **northbankbren** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:14 pm

Goonanana wrote:
Maybe Cesc should have completely dominated Essien, Mikel and Lampard on his own whilst covering the left back position and playing an inch perfect rocket of a pass through to Eduardo that first knocked out him out of Terry's pocket before landing perfectly in front of him on a plate??

Terrible Terrible post

No just the tiny bit of influence on the pitch would have done for me......when did that happen in the game......when has it happened it the last 3 years?

IF HE IS SO GOOD WHY CANT ANY OF YOU NAME A LONG LIST OF BIG GAMES(read previous post for definition of this) WHERE HE WAS THE STAR MAN.

WHERE IS THE LIST?

2 GAMES IS ALL ANYONE COULD NAME...........

JUST 2.

jonny3110 wrote:Anyone who dislikes C'esc at our club, or who thinks he is even slightly overrated please do f**k right off as you are talking out of your arse, and probably never even kicked a ball in your life, because if you think he is even slightly overrated you have no opinion of football that is worth listening to. I know football is about opinions, but talking s**t is not an opinion!!!

SAME TO YOU JONNY.

Dont just respond with...."your talkin shit, fuck that, bollocks *word censored*".

NAME THE GAMES SON!!!!!

THE LONG COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF FABREGAS BEING THIS MASSIVE INFLUENCE IN REALLY IMPORTANT GAMES WHERE IS IT.

This thread has been here since sunday so you've had plenty of time to think of the games..........BUT THERE ARENT ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PROVE ME WRONG.

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:24 pm

northbankbren wrote:IF HE IS SO GOOD WHY CANT ANY OF YOU NAME A LONG LIST OF BIG GAMES(read previous post for definition of this) WHERE HE WAS THE STAR MAN.

WHERE IS THE LIST?

2 GAMES IS ALL ANYONE COULD NAME...........

JUST 2.

That's because we've won about two major games in the last couple of years. Our record against hte rest of the "big four" is shockingly bad... they're the sort of games when one man can't make a difference. I can think of countless games against smaller opposition where Cesc has either played a pass to win the game (Champions League last season, 55 yard pass to Ade****or), or scored a crucial goal himself (vs Sunderland last season, last minute equaliser).

WORLD CLASS players do it week in week out, not just on the biggest stages (which Cesc has, AC Milan, Juventus... plus he got a couple of assists against Liverpool in the 4 - 4, Scored a WONDER goal against Spurs this season, scored a WONDER goal against Spurs at SHL two years ago) . People said Henry was crap because he never scored in a Cup final.

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:31 pm

digger wrote:
northbankbren wrote:IF HE IS SO GOOD WHY CANT ANY OF YOU NAME A LONG LIST OF BIG GAMES(read previous post for definition of this) WHERE HE WAS THE STAR MAN.

WHERE IS THE LIST?

2 GAMES IS ALL ANYONE COULD NAME...........

JUST 2.
That's because we've won about two major games in the last couple of years. Our record against hte rest of the "big four" is shockingly bad... they're the sort of games when one man can't make a difference. I can think of countless games against smaller opposition where Cesc has either played a pass to win the game (Champions League last season, 55 yard pass to Ade****or), or scored a crucial goal himself (vs Sunderland last season, last minute equaliser).

WORLD CLASS players do it week in week out, not just on the biggest stages (which Cesc has, AC Milan, Juventus... plus he got a couple of assists against Liverpool in the 4 - 4, Scored a WONDER goal against Spurs this season, scored a WONDER goal against Spurs at SHL two years ago) . People said Henry was crap because he never scored in a Cup final.

and there northbankbren, you have your answer. now please let this stupid thread die.

hatemanu99 · Post by **hatemanu99** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:52 pm

northbankbren wrote:CAN ANYONE NAME A REALLY IMPORTANT GAME WHERE HE HAS BEEN OUR BEST PLAYER?

JUST 1.

Juve at Highbury in PV4's return? He was pretty impressive that game. Are you a bitter Spud? If a Spurs player scored that goal a few weeks ago they'd have released a feature length DVD of it by now. That was massively under-rated if anything, everyone kept on about how bad the defending was. Marvellous goal. Leadership isn't just knocking ten bells of shit out of the oppo every week my friend. Do your intelligence some justice and don't jump on the English media bandwagon.

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:55 pm

Postcount whore

CYGooner · Post by **CYGooner** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:56 pm

The DEBUG post deffo needs a bump lol. Or to be put up the top with the travel problems etc.

hatemanu99 · Post by **hatemanu99** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:04 pm

sorry about that. had a stinker. much like the author of this thread

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:16 pm

hatemanu99 wrote:sorry about that. had a stinker. much like the author of this thread

northbankbren · Post by **northbankbren** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:16 pm

Look at those games again.......

IM NOT ASKING FOR GOOD GAMES HE HAD......HE'S HAD MANY.

IM ASKING FOR BIG GAMES HE WAS OUR BEST PLAYER AND THE GAMES MENTIONED ABOVE HE WASN'T.

Juve: Pires run the midfeild that night not fabs.

Milan: Diaby

Spuds: READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS

antgel · Post by **antgel** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:18 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:
cesc has been as regular this season as dennis bergkamp and thierry henry ever were for arsenal.

they, like cesc, destroyed two or three games then did little in one or two.

the difference is, the games that they did little, there were bobby, freddie, sylvain, paddy and co. to do the damage.

And what about the other seasons?

Your memory differs to mine regarding Bergkamp and Henry, excepting their final times when they were getting old and past it.

For me, Cesc is notable / influential in maybe half the games he plays for us, whereas the way he is spoken of, you'd think he was bossing nine out of ten games.

I do of course agree that the overall squad at that time was superior to what we have now.

I also notice that nobody replied to my paragraph ^^^ about his actual stats. Assists better than goals, but still I feel that there should be more end product given his god-like status. Don't even compare his goals / game ratio to fat Frank.

Anyway, why do people think that every player is a genius or a shit? Most players are, by definition, somewhere in the middle.

PS So boring how people think that threads that disagree with their opinions shouldn't exist. Maybe these people should have their own personal forums where they could post and reply to themselves and constantly agree about everything. Also funny how people say everyone's entitled to their opinion BUT etc etc.