Why have Arsenal always been tight

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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hatemanu99
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Post by hatemanu99 »

augie wrote:Hatemanu99, I just want to address a few points you made in your first post -

1. Hicks and gillette have been unable to sell the club cos no bugger is sure if the club is for sale, at what price etc cos these two clowns cant seem to agree on anything - it appears if one of them attempts to look at other managers the other one naturally claims that rafa is one of the top 5 managers in the world :roll: No interested bidder will go in and attempt to negotiate while that shit goes on

2. You refer to manu being the superpower they are not and point to the hard work in took them to get here but that totally ignores the fact that back in the 80's they were spending more in transfer fee's than nearly everybody else so they were not doing it on the cheap. Yes the transfer fee's back then were way smaller but then again so were ticket prices and everything is relative. Anyway the point is that you are being very selective if you choose to ignore their spending history

3. Some people keep equating our demands for investment with an expectation of success now but that is not the way it is as far as I am concerned anyway. What I want is for the players, manager and the club in general to do everything possible to bring that success and I believe that bringing in proven quality where necessary would fall under that remit. If they all the above do everything possible and we still dont win any trophies then I will happily accept that cos there are not enough trophies out there for everybody to win one but believe me by wenger and the club not bringing in players where necessary (a good keeper for starters) we cannot say that we are doing all we can to win. Again I feel the need to clarify that we aint looking for billions to be spent but there are players out there that are available (huntellar on loan for example) and failing to do the necessary will result in the same outcome as two seasons ago where it all looked so promising at this stage but fell apart when it mattered most
Thanks Augie. In response:
1. Either way we're pretty much on the same page here. That club is a mess. I'm saying our club isn't. They could have looked at us and gone "well it ain't all that hard to build a new stadium, let's do it", but instead they authorised Rafa's spending and are in a proper mess.

2. Thanks for this. I'm not aware of their spending in the 80's as I was but a young boy yet to attend my first game at Highbury even. Although I do maintain the team that came to dominate the 90's was made up from their youth policy. Plus the outrageous bargains that were Cantona and Schmeichel, plus Keane for an admittedly British record fee.

3. We're definitely on the same page here. Bring in a new keeper.

I love this site when people quit bickering and engage in a decent discussion.

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Number 5
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Post by Number 5 »

clockendal wrote:And I am sure he beleives he is doing everything possible to win something, whether that proves to be enough at the end of the season remains to be seen and he has said himself judge him then.

If he hasn't then I imagine this forum will explode in a mass of :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
But he said that last season, twice if I'm not mistaken. You've got to draw the line somewhere, no?

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augie
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Post by augie »

I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?

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clockendal
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Post by clockendal »

Number 5 wrote:
clockendal wrote:And I am sure he beleives he is doing everything possible to win something, whether that proves to be enough at the end of the season remains to be seen and he has said himself judge him then.

If he hasn't then I imagine this forum will explode in a mass of :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
But he said that last season, twice if I'm not mistaken. You've got to draw the line somewhere, no?
You are correct and he has probably said that before in times gone by. I think the line may well be drawn and the end of this season. I still beleive though he feels he is doing everything he can, as I said whether that is enough or not remains to be seen.

hatemanu99
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Post by hatemanu99 »

augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.

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flash gunner
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Post by flash gunner »

hatemanu99 wrote:
augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered

hatemanu99
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Post by hatemanu99 »

flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered
Last season we were in deep deep trouble at this stage i.e. a real threat of non-qualification for the Champs League. So the Board's hand was forced by Wenger. This season I can't see us finishing below 3rd. I think we could even get 2nd as I don't rate United that highly. Unfortunately I don't think we're as good as the Chavs.

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clockendal
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Post by clockendal »

augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
It's a tough one to call for me. As it stands should we win tonight by 2 goals we go top of the league. At the same time we are also top scorers in the league, by that reckoning surely we are not doing bad with what we have ?

That said it's plain to see Almunia just does not cut the mustard. My own personal no1 hate of his is launching the fucking thing in the air when we have Arshavin up top on his own...


I think it's certainly reaching a point that if does all go tits up this season as with the last 2 seasons and AW has not brought in players in areas that look weak then the clamour for change will grow. Based on past performance with AW I think he's going to go with what he have. If it's not good enough to win something this time round then it could signal the beggining of the end..

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flash gunner
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Post by flash gunner »

hatemanu99 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered
Last season we were in deep deep trouble at this stage i.e. a real threat of non-qualification for the Champs League. So the Board's hand was forced by Wenger. This season I can't see us finishing below 3rd. I think we could even get 2nd as I don't rate United that highly. Unfortunately I don't think we're as good as the Chavs.
I know we are all guessing to a degree but from this post (and im not singling you out) that would suggest the money is there to be spent if needed

hatemanu99
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Post by hatemanu99 »

flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered
Last season we were in deep deep trouble at this stage i.e. a real threat of non-qualification for the Champs League. So the Board's hand was forced by Wenger. This season I can't see us finishing below 3rd. I think we could even get 2nd as I don't rate United that highly. Unfortunately I don't think we're as good as the Chavs.
I know we are all guessing to a degree but from this post (and im not singling you out) that would suggest the money is there to be spent if needed
But do you agree the problem is therefore with the Board and not Wenger? They want to run the club properly so qualifying is what matters. This year we are in no danger. So the bulk goes on the debt. As a fan it's the Catch 22 of winning now or waiting, ensuring the club is stable, then winning stuff from then.

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flash gunner
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Post by flash gunner »

hatemanu99 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote: I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered
Last season we were in deep deep trouble at this stage i.e. a real threat of non-qualification for the Champs League. So the Board's hand was forced by Wenger. This season I can't see us finishing below 3rd. I think we could even get 2nd as I don't rate United that highly. Unfortunately I don't think we're as good as the Chavs.
I know we are all guessing to a degree but from this post (and im not singling you out) that would suggest the money is there to be spent if needed
But do you agree the problem is therefore with the Board and not Wenger? They want to run the club properly so qualifying is what matters. This year we are in no danger. So the bulk goes on the debt. As a fan it's the Catch 22 of winning now or waiting, ensuring the club is stable, then winning stuff from then.
Yeah i dont have any time for the board at all but i think Wenger cant be blameless he is in a situation where he cant be sacked so could push for more if he felt it needed it and it disappoints me that their aim is top 4 not winning the damn thing.

Also things change in football as has happened at Man City by the time we are in a position to compete financially the other clubs may have moved beyond that so where will be then?

I need to invent that time machine :banghead: :wink:

Magic Hat
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Post by Magic Hat »

flash gunner wrote:
hatemanu99 wrote:
augie wrote:I take your point clockendal but if you concede that we do need 2 or 3 new signings and that most Gooners believe that then wouldnt you question wengers judgement should he fail to do the necessary and it all goes tits up again ? I mean this is the same road that he brought us all down 2 seasons ago and failing to learn from the mistakes back then should raise serious questions about his ability to see what is in front of him and if so how can we go forward with him ?
I think this is unfair. It's exactly the reason I think we are constrained. Wenger knows we need a player or two and has openly admitted so. But on our budget we just can't compete in this market, just as two years ago. Fuck knows how we landed Arshavin.
Maybe this proves we arent as constrained financially as we think we are and AW cant actually see whats needed? :? Im not saying this is the truth but it needs to be considered
This isn't a general point but a Jan specific one. It took us all of January last time, when we were desperate, had the funds and with a player who wanted to come, to get 1 senior player. Not entirely sure what made it take so long and what Arsenal can do to quicken things up but we are also in a worse market. I think in Jan, we are perhaps only ever going to get one senior addition (outside of freebies) to the squad and we have to hope he fits the ground running and not needing time to adapt. Until we find a way to quicken up transfer deals, 2 is perhaps unlikely, 3 players in isn't going to happen.

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Exiled-Gooner
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Post by Exiled-Gooner »

Would the discussion be any different if manure and chavski hadn't dropped points over the last month.

djhdjh
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Post by djhdjh »

The 4th point of the original post about being small minded about money is spot on. Leaving aside the fact that he's a dick can anyone seriously believe that we let the best left back in the world leave our club because of a dispute that essentially boiled down to us not being willing to give him an extra 5k a week which was still well below what another club was offering him. That was scandalous and it was just as well for the board that he behaved as he did or they would have had some hard questions to answer. Similar issue with Flamini. If you believe reports we didn't get Alonso because we didn't want to pay £2m more for him. He then moved for twice that price the following summer.

lowerwest
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Some good points

Post by lowerwest »

Good debate here my orig post was about why its ingrained in arsenal not to spend the money. Aside from the we dont want to Man U or Chelsea etc its part of the modern game to invest and we are just so far behind in this respect. Remember those arguments for moving to the Emirates and how it would give us the financial clout to compete...just how hollow those words sounds now 5 years on. To anyone who think Gazidis or Kroenke would change it are seriously misguided by the looks of it...just think how good we could be if we invested properly.

Does anyone have a like for like spend for the last 5 years between us and the other top 4 or 5?

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