As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
FWIW people forget AW was born in Alsace (formerly in Germany) and is fluent in German - from the Article, this will fox the Emirates Gestapo (ironically) :
"Arsène, danke für die Erinnerungen, aber es ist Zeit zu gehen."
i'll put a tenner towards a banner that says that
I Still prefer:
"Arsène, danke für die Erinnerung, aber es ist Zeit zu verpissen"
Fuck me this thread has turned into an episode of 'allo 'allo
FWIW people forget AW was born in Alsace (formerly in Germany) and is fluent in German - from the Article, this will fox the Emirates Gestapo (ironically) :
"Arsène, danke für die Erinnerungen, aber es ist Zeit zu gehen."
i'll put a tenner towards a banner that says that
I Still prefer:
"Arsène, danke für die Erinnerung, aber es ist Zeit zu verpissen"
Fuck me this thread has turned into an episode of 'allo 'allo
SteveO 35 wrote:If anyone ever needed any more convincing about what a first rate c u n t Paul Merson is then he just uttered the words
"Arsenal fans need to be careful what they wish for Geoff" and compared us to Charlton fans with Alan Curbishley
This from the man who declared us as the worst team without the ball in all four divisions last season
Fucking hate the thick twat with a passion
Same after the Victims game, getting sly little praise in for Wenger.. Thought he was on our side but now conforming like a little schoolboy. Where is Stewart Robson when we need him ?
Even if we were by some miracle to fluke the champions league i'd still want him to go, for me the PL is always the thing i feel we should aspire to win above all else and i cannot see him ever putting a team together that could win it again with the tactics and football intelligence he uses (or doesn't).
The CL is still effectively a cup competition and you can sometimes fluke results against the odds, in the league over such a long season it is much much harder and therefore a truer test of a managers ability, i know that is a personal opinion but that is my view of it.
Even if we were by some miracle to fluke the champions league i'd still want him to go, for me the PL is always the thing i feel we should aspire to win above all else and i cannot see him ever putting a team together that could win it again with the tactics and football intelligence he uses (or doesn't).
The CL is still effectively a cup competition and you can sometimes fluke results against the odds, in the league over such a long season it is much much harder and therefore a truer test of a managers ability, i know that is a personal opinion but that is my view of it.
if we fluke the CL he'll get a 5 year extension on his 3 year deal on the spot! and the AKBs will never let us (read: me) live it down
Arsenal will not win the Champions League, dependent on the draw we may get quarter finals. On reflection the minimum we should have came out of that group with was 16 points.
Bradywasking wrote:Arsenal will not win the Champions League, dependent on the draw we may get quarter finals. On reflection the minimum we should have came out of that group with was 16 points.
A group featuring: the team that was bottom on Germany, a team that has never won a CL game in it's history and officially the worst club in CL football (just 1 pt and over 16 goals conceded was it).
And still he can only finish 2nd.
Bradywasking wrote:Arsenal will not win the Champions League, dependent on the draw we may get quarter finals. On reflection the minimum we should have came out of that group with was 16 points.
A group featuring: the team that was bottom on Germany, a team that has never won a CL game in it's history and officially the worst club in CL football (just 1 pt and over 16 goals conceded was it).
And still he can only finish 2nd.
Are you even a fucking Arsenal fan? You get no pleasure what so ever from Arsenal
I might be so bold as to say a sp*rs fan would get a similar amount of pleasure
I’m not really into the whole labelling of fans, I think its derogatory and reasonably pointless given at the end of the day we are all supporters – you are no less of an Arsenal supporter if you want Wenger gone, no more than you are less of one if you think he is the right man for the job. In forums such as this and in the stands at away games it’s that very point which has caused a lot of the tension and unfortunately as we saw at Stoke, fighting between our own fans.
Look at that final point from an external point of view (not necessarily mine), perhaps say that of a fan of Liverpool or Tottenham who have spent hundreds of millions of pounds not just on playing staff, but managers, contacts, agents etc. etc. just to be in the league position we are now, and have occupied consistently as a minimum for 18 years. That’s not to forget both have a huge desire to playing their football in a stadium such as ours. So looking at it objectively from their point of view, one mirrored by 88 other English league clubs and the media – unfurling a banner after a hard fought 1-0 away victory is always going to look, at best, a bit foolish and coins headlines such as “spoilt Arsenal fans” as we saw on the BBC etc.
Are we spoilt? Of course we have been – we have seen some of the best players to ever play the game play their football under Wenger, he made Henry, Vieira and Pires into superstars, he managed to convince a multi-cultural team of players from all over the world that they could complete a season without losing a league game, he was won an abundance of trophies, we have competed in the Champions League consistently, he has managed 180 games in the competition for us, he is for all intents and purpose a very, very good manager. However, is that enough? Is he, and ergo Arsenal, doing enough?
His tangible success is of course skewed towards his initial eight years in charge, there is no question of that. The players that have been wearing the famous red and white have without question diminished in quality (as they were always going too after the invincible side) – it leads many fans to ask, and get frustrated in that “are we fulfilling our potential?”, two league titles (2008 and 2014) were there for the taking with the right additions in the January window – additions that were obvious to any fan, or any club at that time. The Carling Cup in 2011 was unlucky given the players missing and a freak result can occur in a final (ask Luton, West Ham and Parma) but its one that went away. Again, it could be argued “but we are competing for trophies” which we are and is all any fan wants really – to be competing knowing your time will come. But is it acceptable to have title challenges over by October? Is it acceptable to have characteristics in a team evident year on year – give them the upper hand and they will murder you with a footballing lesson, but get at them early and they will often collapse, often just for short periods, but collapse spectacularly and emabarrasingly.
Therein is where I fell lies the frustrations, the “groundhog day” nature of a team packed full of footballing quality, but with an Achilles heel that supporters know in mid-august will be the shortcoming of the side. From Squad depth, to a new Vieira to a killer 30-goal a season striker, we have had it all – every year we know we will give a team a pasting, we will get a hiding away and we will, against the big sides come up short. We are an 7.5/10 club and have been for some time consistently good enough to be in the top four and get to the last 16 of the CL but that’s our limit, however we pay 10/10 prices.
It must be pointed out however, football has changed dramatically since Wenger took charge in 1996. The modern football world is different, players are bigger than the clubs, it’s not how many of people (dare I say a little older than me!) remember it – every big club in the country operates as we do in terms of ticketing, merchandise, the desire for a global reach, owners rather than supporting “chairman”. Add to that diets, nutrition, player scouting systems – it has all moved on. Wenger was way, way ahead of his time, streets ahead – many respected names in the game cite him for changing football in this country. He has adapted his own way of working, his “30 year” policy has changed, the wage structure has changed, he has bought “marquee” players when the transfer funds have allowed, he hasn’t “stood still” as some would make you believe. However that is all off the pitch, on the pitch his mantra remains in terms of set-up, philosophy, youth development and player management – again it IS “SUCCESFUL” in wider football terms, we operate in the echelons of European football, but should we be higher? Could we very easily be higher with adjustments?
The current frustrations are that we won the FA Cup, but we haven’t built on it. We have gone into a season with 6 fit defenders, which coupled with a horrendous combination of key injuries means we cannot maintain a consistent side. There is no spine, at least not a fit one. Maybe the optimism was so high in the summer with the arrivals of big signings that this crash has been felt harder than perhaps it would have been. You only have to look at Debuchy last night to see what a difference having a proper right back makes – Wenger has, and im sure he would admit himself, mucked up the start of this season, dramatically. I doubt you would find ANY Arsenal fan that disagrees with that.
The questions I would ask any fan are – are you willing to roll the dice? Risk 7.5/10 for an 8 or a 9, but possibly a 6./10. When Arsenal a 2-0 up in a game after 17 minutes would you be happy for them to shut up shop a la Jose and pay £90 to watch a dead game , or go for it? Would you have taken a top 4 and an FA Cup for two/three seasons running? Do you trust the board to make an appointment that would involve an element of risk to enable this rolling of the dice? These are all rhetorical really, we will all have views, but changing Wenger would open up those questions.
The fact of the matter is, Wenger will be our manager till the end of this season – that’s a Fact. We could be 12th in January and Klopp was available it wouldn’t make an iota of difference. I understand people feel disjointed to Arsenal – but is that Wenger, Arsenal or the way of Modern Football? Wenger needs to make changes to himself, and his squad – the problem we have of course is not all of us believe he will. Right now, the best we can hope for is a top 4 finish and a trophy. Right now, I think Wenger is best placed to deliver that – like alcohol, he is the cause and the solution to the problem, at least short term.
Just a word on the “abuse” to Wenger. It should never, ever get personal. Not a man who has done so much for us, and this club – he remained loyal when he was at his peak to stay and guide us through the stadium development, he has given us all memories, players and countless clips to watch drunk on youtube we will never forget. I don’t doubt for a second Wenger loves this club, and us, as much as we do. I saw a point that because he abuses officials we can abuse him? Please, we are all one side here, the abuse is coming from his own – and that will hurt this club. I agree, we want more and should work for more, and maybe his time is up – it’s a view I respect - but the personal abuse is out of line. These banners after games? What really is the point? As I said above it won’t change a thing, right now we should be looking short term to get these season back on track as a club. The infighting and labelling makes us look as a club that we are starved of everything we are always so very, very proud of before, during and after Wenger – CLASS. Protest if you wish, but respect those that don’t and above all, remember its Arsenal, remember who we are, and what we represent.
Heard Wenger on the radio this am wallowing in the glory of making the last 16 of CL for 15 years.
Doesnt he realise that this stat isnt one to be proud of when youve never won it and reached only one final?
Gonna take whoever comes in after Wenger a loooong time to sort out the apathy, acceptance of mediocrity, sense of entitlement not to mention the failed processes, wage structures, scouting, medical employees etc.
And thats not even mentioning players, tactics, training methods too
Last edited by armchair on Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
armchair wrote:Heard Wenger on the radio this am wallowing in the glory of making the last 16 of CL for 15 years.
Doesnt he realise that this stat isnt one to be proud of when youve never won it and reached only one final?
Doesnt he realise that this is failure?
Answer is "No".. Arsene Wenger and Arsenal are in a comfort zone where being also rans is more than acceptable it is regarded as success. That is the mindset that has been created by excuses about finances.
armchair wrote:Gonna take whoever comes in after Wenger a loooong time to sort out the apathy, acceptance of mediocrity, sense of entitlement not to mention the failed processes, wage structures, scouting, medical employees etc.
And thats not even mentioning players, tactics, training methods too
.....and the owner and the board members..............
