Unai Emery

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Clummo99
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by Clummo99 »

augie wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:55 pm
Clummo99 wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:13 pm
Exactly what I've been saying for God knows how long and still SteveO doesn't seem to accepted it.

Just because Arteta has turned out to be a worse appointment doesn't mean Emery was the right appointment.

Emery was dismissed at the correct time (maybe even a few weeks earlier would have been better) because we were heading for major trouble if he'd stayed.



Surely for it to be the correct decision, the guy that replaced him has to do a better job ? I keep saying that I only ever viewed emery as a bridge appointment to get us going in the right direction again, but I still believe that the bridge was shorter than it should have been - if we sack him and replace him with a conte or some other manager who instantly improves us and has us on the up again then it is a great decision, but if you replace him with a muppet that has no experience and is dragging us down much further, then it is a catastrophic appointment that is being compounded by their refusal to replace arteta.

The correctness of sacking any manager does not come down to that manager but is down to the performance of his successor
But Augie another thing I keep repeating and nobody listens is that we are judging Arteta with hindsight, in the same way we are judging Dick.

At the time Emery was dismissed and Arteta was appointed we had no idea what he would be like. The vast majority of us were underwhelmed at Arteta getting the job but for all we knew at the time he could have been a great success and had he been then we wouldn't be having these silly debates about Emery vs Arteta.

For whatever the reasons we were playing appallingly during those last few weeks and the timing was just about right to sack him.

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Augie you truly are a stubborn, myopic individual. The squad was in disarray under Emery, it didnt get any better under Freddie, we were still dropping at that point. Arteta at best stopped us dropping further for the rest of the season, i fully agree that does not make him a good choice however there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that Emery if left in charge would have turned things round. If you want to play the hindsight game there is a good chance if UE had remained in charge any longer we could have been in the lower quarter of the table fighting relegation. Nothing he did prior to getting sacked points in any way shape or form to him beginning to turn things round or improve us. Just because we made a bad appointment as his permanent replacement does not vindicate hypothetically keeping someone who had, from the outside looking in, lost the dressing room and run out of ideas. :banghead:

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wibble
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by wibble »

augie wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:55 pm
Clummo99 wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:13 pm
Exactly what I've been saying for God knows how long and still SteveO doesn't seem to accepted it.

Just because Arteta has turned out to be a worse appointment doesn't mean Emery was the right appointment.

Emery was dismissed at the correct time (maybe even a few weeks earlier would have been better) because we were heading for major trouble if he'd stayed.



Surely for it to be the correct decision, the guy that replaced him has to do a better job ? I keep saying that I only ever viewed emery as a bridge appointment to get us going in the right direction again, but I still believe that the bridge was shorter than it should have been - if we sack him and replace him with a conte or some other manager who instantly improves us and has us on the up again then it is a great decision, but if you replace him with a muppet that has no experience and is dragging us down much further, then it is a catastrophic appointment that is being compounded by their refusal to replace arteta.

The correctness of sacking any manager does not come down to that manager but is down to the performance of his successor
By that logic we shouldn’t have got rid of Wenger!

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SteveO 35
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by SteveO 35 »

augie wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:55 pm
Clummo99 wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:13 pm
Exactly what I've been saying for God knows how long and still SteveO doesn't seem to accepted it.

Just because Arteta has turned out to be a worse appointment doesn't mean Emery was the right appointment.

Emery was dismissed at the correct time (maybe even a few weeks earlier would have been better) because we were heading for major trouble if he'd stayed.



Surely for it to be the correct decision, the guy that replaced him has to do a better job ? I keep saying that I only ever viewed emery as a bridge appointment to get us going in the right direction again, but I still believe that the bridge was shorter than it should have been - if we sack him and replace him with a conte or some other manager who instantly improves us and has us on the up again then it is a great decision, but if you replace him with a muppet that has no experience and is dragging us down much further, then it is a catastrophic appointment that is being compounded by their refusal to replace arteta.

The correctness of sacking any manager does not come down to that manager but is down to the performance of his successor
Exactly right. Whats the point firing someone when you have no plan to move the club forward? They left Freddie and the BFG doing 2 jobs for a month and then panicked into getting cone boy

And by the way, this has nothing to do with hindsight. As you all take great delight in reminding me, I was one of the few voices who said we booted him too soon at the actual time he was sacked!

Arsene Wenger built a squad with the 4th highest wage bill in the country- full of c.unts who couldn't be sold, couldn't be coached, stealing a living in a culture of underachievement with no consequences. I dont believe any manager in the world could turn that into a team of world beaters inside 15 months, with a budget of a third of the best clubs.

We are about to repeat 2015/16 which is sticking with a useless c.unt when some vastly superior managers are available.

Dick is actually now a level of manager above where we are at. We are at 38 year old novice levels, Eddie Howe / Roberto Martinez levels.

We all know that none of us would be moaning about sacking Emery if Conte, Allegri, Ancelotti, Simeone or Martinez had walked through the door next. But we aren't owned by someone with that ambition which is why you need to know your level and what's available

I guarantee once this prick takes us to the bottom six next season, when he is eventually replaced it will be by someone equally underwhelming. Some poor c.unt expected to shit miracles on a budget of 40m with wankers like Willian on 200k per week cluttering the wage bill.

Until Kroenke goes we won't get a manager of Emery's calibre and that's the sad truth

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Re: Unai Emery

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We won't end any season in the bottom six. Not because we are particularly good, but just because the PL is so shit and unbalanced, there are always going to be at least 9 or 10 teams worse than us.

We are financially better off than all those teams, no matter what we think of the owners, and have enough money to keep us out of any relegation dogfight. And being in the bottom 6 for two or three weeks in October is not a relegation dogfight. :lol:

Martinez-Lite is also not that bad, no matter what we think of him. He is not the manager to get a huge club a title win - or even a top 4 finish - but he certainly can get us a mid table finish in this league with the money we have available. I could do that too though in fairness. :roll: :lol:

What we have ahead of us is not catastrophe but rather tedious mediocrity.

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Clummo99
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by Clummo99 »

Spot on again DB. Arteta isn't that bad. He's just not who we want or need.

We finished 8th not 18th in his first full season in management which isn't the worst achievement is it? :lol:

With a few decent additions this summer and more of the dross cleared out we can improve on that next term. We are further from being a relegation club than we are a title winning club.

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augie
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:56 am
We won't end any season in the bottom six. Not because we are particularly good, but just because the PL is so shit and unbalanced, there are always going to be at least 9 or 10 teams worse than us.

We are financially better off than all those teams, no matter what we think of the owners, and have enough money to keep us out of any relegation dogfight. And being in the bottom 6 for two or three weeks in October is not a relegation dogfight. :lol:

Martinez-Lite is also not that bad, no matter what we think of him. He is not the manager to get a huge club a title win - or even a top 4 finish - but he certainly can get us a mid table finish in this league with the money we have available. I could do that too though in fairness. :roll: :lol:

What we have ahead of us is not catastrophe but rather tedious mediocrity.



How many (if any) wins can you look at and say that we got that win because of something specific that arteta did ? How many starting team changes, or substitutions or tactical changes can we say made a difference ? Has there been any time where we can point to an arteta signing as being the difference in a game ? Reality is that the answer isnt far from zero cos that is a fact. We have won games and finished above as many teams as we have simply because we have better players than them, and arteta shouldnt get the credit for that imo

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Clummo99
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by Clummo99 »

augie wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:31 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:56 am
We won't end any season in the bottom six. Not because we are particularly good, but just because the PL is so shit and unbalanced, there are always going to be at least 9 or 10 teams worse than us.

We are financially better off than all those teams, no matter what we think of the owners, and have enough money to keep us out of any relegation dogfight. And being in the bottom 6 for two or three weeks in October is not a relegation dogfight. :lol:

Martinez-Lite is also not that bad, no matter what we think of him. He is not the manager to get a huge club a title win - or even a top 4 finish - but he certainly can get us a mid table finish in this league with the money we have available. I could do that too though in fairness. :roll: :lol:

What we have ahead of us is not catastrophe but rather tedious mediocrity.



How many (if any) wins can you look at and say that we got that win because of something specific that arteta did ? How many starting team changes, or substitutions or tactical changes can we say made a difference ? Has there been any time where we can point to an arteta signing as being the difference in a game ? Reality is that the answer isnt far from zero cos that is a fact. We have won games and finished above as many teams as we have simply because we have better players than them, and arteta shouldnt get the credit for that imo
Tactics and selection play some part in results mate. He doesn't get everything wrong. :lol:

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SteveO 35
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by SteveO 35 »

The facts are that in the two seasons he's been our manager we haven't qualified for Europe via our league form and that is something that hasn't been done since the end of GG. Even Rioch, post lobotomy Wenger and Emery managed it and this bloke hasn't

I'm not sure how we measure "that bad" but if its producing the lowest number of home goals, the most amount of home defeats and consistently some of the most boring football in the league, then he's every bit that bad.

Seems like 5 wins at the end of the season when everything was lost is giving people mood for optimism but I see it no differently to the little runs Wenger had when all the pressure was off.

Dangerous talk about being nowhere near relegation too. 20 years ago people said we couldn't finish outside the top 2, then the top four, then the top six.....now we're saying 8th isn't that bad.

Clubs like Wolves and Leeds were two divisions below us not so long ago, but have owners who invest. Burnley are doing that now, Everton too, Newcastle one day soon. Its a rich man's plaything and within the next few seasons I wouldn't be surprised if every PL club was owned by a billionaire

Watch then if we're too good to go down.

Arteta was a disastrous appointment and has taken us further backwards. He's every bit THAT bad and I will be amazed if he advances on 8th. Even Sid said on here there can be no excuse now that there's no European football as we finished the highest position in the league without qualifying.....so all our rivals will be having months of two games per week. No COVID, fans back in the stadiums etc.....all the excuses for him still be here will be peeled away one by one......but no doubt there will be some cracking excuses invented this season when we are still mid table

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augie
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by augie »

Clummo99 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:41 am
augie wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:31 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:56 am
We won't end any season in the bottom six. Not because we are particularly good, but just because the PL is so shit and unbalanced, there are always going to be at least 9 or 10 teams worse than us.

We are financially better off than all those teams, no matter what we think of the owners, and have enough money to keep us out of any relegation dogfight. And being in the bottom 6 for two or three weeks in October is not a relegation dogfight. :lol:

Martinez-Lite is also not that bad, no matter what we think of him. He is not the manager to get a huge club a title win - or even a top 4 finish - but he certainly can get us a mid table finish in this league with the money we have available. I could do that too though in fairness. :roll: :lol:

What we have ahead of us is not catastrophe but rather tedious mediocrity.



How many (if any) wins can you look at and say that we got that win because of something specific that arteta did ? How many starting team changes, or substitutions or tactical changes can we say made a difference ? Has there been any time where we can point to an arteta signing as being the difference in a game ? Reality is that the answer isnt far from zero cos that is a fact. We have won games and finished above as many teams as we have simply because we have better players than them, and arteta shouldnt get the credit for that imo
Tactics and selection play some part in results mate. He doesn't get everything wrong. :lol:



I know that - my point was what has he ever done tactically different than the previous game, and that you can point to that tactical change as the reason why we won the game ? Maybe once or twice ?

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Re: Unai Emery

Post by DB10GOONER »

Fuck me. It's getting to the stage on here that debate is becoming pointless. The twisting of words, the deliberate pretending to miss the point. :lol:

If anyone is going to reply to my posts please have the courtesy to actually read them first. :lol: :fryingpan: :yawn:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:54 am
Clummo99 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:41 am
augie wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:31 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:56 am
We won't end any season in the bottom six. Not because we are particularly good, but just because the PL is so shit and unbalanced, there are always going to be at least 9 or 10 teams worse than us.

We are financially better off than all those teams, no matter what we think of the owners, and have enough money to keep us out of any relegation dogfight. And being in the bottom 6 for two or three weeks in October is not a relegation dogfight. :lol:

Martinez-Lite is also not that bad, no matter what we think of him. He is not the manager to get a huge club a title win - or even a top 4 finish - but he certainly can get us a mid table finish in this league with the money we have available. I could do that too though in fairness. :roll: :lol:

What we have ahead of us is not catastrophe but rather tedious mediocrity.



How many (if any) wins can you look at and say that we got that win because of something specific that arteta did ? How many starting team changes, or substitutions or tactical changes can we say made a difference ? Has there been any time where we can point to an arteta signing as being the difference in a game ? Reality is that the answer isnt far from zero cos that is a fact. We have won games and finished above as many teams as we have simply because we have better players than them, and arteta shouldnt get the credit for that imo
Tactics and selection play some part in results mate. He doesn't get everything wrong. :lol:



I know that - my point was what has he ever done tactically different than the previous game, and that you can point to that tactical change as the reason why we won the game ? Maybe once or twice ?
And where did I say he did? You quoted my post.

The point is that the PL is so shit you do not have to have the ability do anything tactically to "achieve" mid table mediocrity. All he has to avoid doing is something really stupid, and he will. Ffs gormless cùnts like Spunk Gargler Dyche and Eddie Fucking Howe have managed mid table mediocrity with no brain cells and no money for years! :D

You know what - fuck it, I can't be bothered going around in these tedious circles.... :roll:

Lads, Martinez-Lite is the worst manager that has ever lived. Next season we will be relegated. The following season we will be put into administration. Hup hup!

:barscarf:

:lol: :wink:

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Clummo99
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by Clummo99 »

When KT was out and he played Xhaka left of three centrebacks in a variation of the W formation it was very effective imo. It worked well on the whole particularly considering the players he had to use. It also saw some of Ceballos' better performances for us.

The comeback at West Ham saw some small tactical changes too. There are examples to call on mate believe me.

You know I don't want Arteta as manager but I like to think I can see a balanced view and not just use sweeping statements to denigrate him at every opportunity.
Last edited by Clummo99 on Sun May 30, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Unai Emery

Post by SteveO 35 »

The performances against Chavski and City in last season's FA Cup, followed by the Community Shield win against the Mickeys had given me some hope that we had at least found a manager who could get the best out of the sum of the parts and at least made us hard to beat

Roll on a year and I just don't see that. Towards the end of Emery's reign there were some poor performances for sure, but there have been too many of them this season too and the supposed hard to beat stuff has long since disappeared

The two 0-3 home defeats to the Mickeys and Villa were as poor as any game I've ever witnessed and both games could have ended up six or seven. There must also have been a dozen or more games where we could have played till midnight and not scored

A year ago I thought he might actually have some sort of plan, but now I can't work out what sort of team we are trying to be. There isn't a preferred centre back pairing, the midfield has been random rotation, he still can't work out what to do with Auba, and we change the right back every other game

It is the continual rotation which makes me think he hasn't got the slightest idea what he is doing. People may have defended that with two games per week but there's no excuse now

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Re: Unai Emery

Post by OneBardGooner »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 10:11 am
Fuck me. It's getting to the stage on here that debate is becoming pointless. The twisting of words, the deliberate pretending to miss the point. :lol:

If anyone is going to reply to my posts please have the courtesy to actually read them first. :lol: :fryingpan: :yawn:

What you talking' bout Willis??? :D

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