VAR

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: VAR

Postby GoonerMuzz » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:18 pm

Lots of talk about the PL "reviewing" how VAR is used. For me there are only two options:

1. Scrap the whole shit idea. (My personal choice).

2. Limit it's use to one (maybe two max) requests per manager per half. This would be workable and reduce the negative impact on the game. Let each manager have one opportunity per half to request a VAR review of an incident. They ask the fourth official to signal the ref and the ref goes to VAR. If they only have one opportunity per half they will only use it for the serious shit like goals pennos and red cards.
Number 1 would be a sad day for the sport and show the FA up to be the Luddites they are - technology that has worked perfectly well in other sports for years, and sadly football (the richest sport of all) is unable to operate it effectively

Suggestion number 2 however is the most obvious one of the lot and one I have been advocating from the start - in tennis the players know they have 1 or 2 referrals, same in cricket and they know to use them sparingly and only for occasions where they think there has been genuine wrongdoing. At the moment they just surround the ref for every potential handball, trip, shirt pull etc and it is a farce. Each team gets one referral each per half. The manager notifies the 4th official that he wants to review the incident - they ask the video ref - he confirms the decision or otherwise and the referral is won or lost. Now.....that of course would be just too easy for football to implement wouldn't it

The FA never wanted VAR anyway and neither did UEFA, so its plain and obvious to me that there is deliberate sabotage so that enough fans confuse a good idea badly executed, with a bad idea. Sadly I think its working

Perhaps we should go back to using a pig's bladder tied up with shoelaces and replace the crossbar with tape too........honestly, only in football
What other sports SteveO? Tedium Homoball? This obsession with looking to utter shit like rugby for solutions to football's ills is ludicrous mate.

You simply cannot compare the two. Stuff that works in a game built around slow movement and stoppages in flow every few seconds does not work in a game based on pace and (almost) continuous play. Because of the very nature of football many many incidents are open to interpretation and no matter who makes the decision, be it referee or statto virgin in a VAR studio, it's still in most scenarios going to be their interpretation.

Whereas before it was frustrating when refs got it wrong we now have added stoppages and delays and still the VAR reviewer often gets it wrong. So no improvement just negatives. Worst of all it has all but killed the enjoyment of a goal being scored, killed that explosive instant release of celebration and joy. Now we wait for 2 to 4 minutes while some incompetent inexperienced fuckwit gets it wrong anyway!

Just because we have the technology to do something does not mean we should do it.

Oooh, there's an open doorway to some huge questions of ethical philosophy.....I’m just not sure this forum is quite ready for them ! :proudtosay:
:lol: :wink:
Retro words like Ethical and Philosophy dont even appear in the vocabulary of most of the luddites on here :wink:

I always think of the line from Jurassic Park 'while your scientist were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should' definitely a topic for the basement some day Ethical Philosophy.

Anyway back to VAR, I wonder if we'd be so anti it if it had been around for Granny Shaggers dive back in the day if the correct decision had been given.

I feel that the fuckers are trying to scupper VAR because it takes power away from the Hollywood Refs and makes them less important however VAR as it's used and interpreted currently is a complete sham and we're better off without it. VAR should have been introduced in some backwards league 2 in some smaller country and the problems ironed out there before bringing it to the highest leagues in the world where it was always going to be over scrutinized and cause huge controversy, but FIFA is more than aware of the entertainment industry and money available and that's what this is about.

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wibble
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Re: VAR

Postby wibble » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:39 pm

The thing is var was trialled extensively and then implemented back in 17/18 in other leagues including seria a and the bundesliga.

The issue is that despite this, the premier league are still fucking it up

clummo123
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Re: VAR

Postby clummo123 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:55 pm

Yep. VAR has actually been around for a number of years now. Trials in various international youth tournaments before moving to lesser leagues and finally the major leagues. The problem is mainly the way in which it is being implemented and utilised here.

I think a refresher course on how, why and when it's needed is already required by our officials.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: VAR

Postby DB10GOONER » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:00 am

Not just is it open to corruption it is actually being used corruptly. Anyone that watched that victim v citeh game yesterday and still thinks VAR is working is I'm afraid delusional. :|

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Bradywasking
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Re: VAR

Postby Bradywasking » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:19 am

Not just is it open to corruption it is actually being used corruptly. Anyone that watched that victim v citeh game yesterday and still thinks VAR is working is I'm afraid delusional. :|
I think VAR is working perfectly well..........for Liverpool FC and a lesser degree Tottenham Hotspur FC....and what else do those clubs have in common....ah yes they are both media favourites..Coincidence????
The drive to hand the title to Liverpool is relentless, it is highly supported by all sides of the game, by the media, by the authorities and by the officials ..It is the one thing that was to end ambiguity in the game, to clear up the clear and obvious mistakes. What it has done is compound the corruption and bias towards certain clubs and one in particular.
As bad as Arsenal are they were denied one point in Bramall Lane and two at home to Palace by VAR. Yet in three consecutive games at Anfield FOUR penalty calls go Liverpool's way..I am fucking sick of it, I would take human error anyday rather than this corrupt system.

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mcdowell42
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Re: VAR

Postby mcdowell42 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:17 am

Talking of pens, the victims have been awarded 7 pens this season and none against,read that somewhere, could have been on here even. :lol:

Redarmy
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Re: VAR

Postby Redarmy » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 am

Waiting up to 5 minutes before you can celebrate a goal.... :D :D :D

Retro Gunner
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Re: VAR

Postby Retro Gunner » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:10 am

Lets all yearn for the days when a 46 year old bloke runs after top athletes half his age, making mistake after mistake, and refusing to believe that technology has any role in improving that

I'm sure the Wimbledon organisers are already hatching a plan to do away with hawkeye and just have the line judges guess if the ball was out or not......after all we wouldn't want to upset old Doris, aged 68, in case she said it was in when it wasn't

Likewise the cricket authorities are considering, removing the snickometer and hotsport, preferring instead to rely on 60 year old Gerald's eyesight and hearing abilities to judge whether a 94 mph delivery edged the bat or not. Best not offend the old boy....he's a good old chap after all

Football - truly the world's most backward looking game

Just think how much better it would have been if we hadn't corrected Mr Magoo's decision at Old Trafford when Aubameyang was 4 yards onside and he still managed to flag it down. Would have been much better to lose 1-0 rather than the 1 minute inconvenience of reviewing the camera. Would have been a right shitter winning that 2001 FA Cup Final too when Henchoz stopped Henry making it 2-0 with his hand. Feels a lot better knowing the old c.unts on the day made an 'honest mistake'

:lol: :lol:
Very good, made me laugh and there’s a lot of truth in what you say SteveO. I’m not entirely convinced it works in football, because while there are undeniable advantages, there’s a risk that it will ultimately ruin the game. Dunno, jury’s out for me.

What I do know, is that it can’t be uninvented and it’s here to stay. If it was done away with, can you imagine the furore each time tv showed up a costly bad decision ? The genie’s out of the bottle.

What I also know, is that we seem to be making far more of a mess of VAR than other countries, so maybe it’s the way our clowns are administering it, rather than the idea being at fault. Inconsistency and confusion are currently reigning and that will knacker any sport.

A11M11
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Re: VAR

Postby A11M11 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:54 am

VAR should be used to help the referees without undermining them .
Atkinson said Zaha dived it was overturned making him look a muppet. Had he just been advised to go to and look at the monitor he could have made his own mind up and retained his integrity.
I have little love for the pgmol but referees are a necessary evil but in the end it’s their decision .

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Bradywasking
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Re: VAR

Postby Bradywasking » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:50 am

Dermot Gallagher on SSN is contradicting himself.. he says the first handball incident wasn't a penalty (surprise surprise), asked about VAR on that incident he said VAR didn't intervene because the referee made an onfield decision..Few minutes later he said VAR would have reviewed it and agreed with the referee.
Go back to previous post by A11M11 , VAR intervened in Zaha incident probably because they deemed it a clear and obvious error. Begs the question have refs the final say or not? Seemingly not, unless it suits the agenda. By the way Gallagher said none of the three City claims were penalties.
Last edited by Bradywasking on Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gunner Rob
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Re: VAR

Postby Gunner Rob » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:53 am

Biggest problem with VAR is that it takes too long
also why don't the refs use the pitchside monitor to make a decision ?
also just use it for when there is a clear problem - VAR is just making things worse.

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mcdowell42
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Re: VAR

Postby mcdowell42 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:57 am

Mike reilly head of the referees had told them before the season started not to use the monitors cos in his opinion it would slow the games down

Jock Gooner
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Re: VAR

Postby Jock Gooner » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:54 pm

Waiting up to 5 minutes before you can celebrate a goal.... :D :D :D
Unless Anthony Taylor is the VAR bitch then it'll be nearer to 10 :lol:

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Ernie71
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Re: VAR

Postby Ernie71 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Lets all yearn for the days when a 46 year old bloke runs after top athletes half his age, making mistake after mistake, and refusing to believe that technology has any role in improving that

I'm sure the Wimbledon organisers are already hatching a plan to do away with hawkeye and just have the line judges guess if the ball was out or not......after all we wouldn't want to upset old Doris, aged 68, in case she said it was in when it wasn't

Likewise the cricket authorities are considering, removing the snickometer and hotsport, preferring instead to rely on 60 year old Gerald's eyesight and hearing abilities to judge whether a 94 mph delivery edged the bat or not. Best not offend the old boy....he's a good old chap after all

Football - truly the world's most backward looking game

Just think how much better it would have been if we hadn't corrected Mr Magoo's decision at Old Trafford when Aubameyang was 4 yards onside and he still managed to flag it down. Would have been much better to lose 1-0 rather than the 1 minute inconvenience of reviewing the camera. Would have been a right shitter winning that 2001 FA Cup Final too when Henchoz stopped Henry making it 2-0 with his hand. Feels a lot better knowing the old c.unts on the day made an 'honest mistake'
What VAR has shown is 50 years ago when i first started watching football when MOTD has two games of highlights with one camera in the ground just how many mistakes the referees got away with

1. Let both managers have 3 appeals each half.If the decision isnt changed you lose one appeal. If you lose all your appeals like Australia did in the Ashes hard luck
2.Get ex players in the VAR booth.Referee's in the booth are afriad to over turn on field referee's decisions
3.Get referee's to use the monitor on the side of the pitch

Jock Gooner
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Re: VAR

Postby Jock Gooner » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:34 pm

Lets all yearn for the days when a 46 year old bloke runs after top athletes half his age, making mistake after mistake, and refusing to believe that technology has any role in improving that

I'm sure the Wimbledon organisers are already hatching a plan to do away with hawkeye and just have the line judges guess if the ball was out or not......after all we wouldn't want to upset old Doris, aged 68, in case she said it was in when it wasn't

Likewise the cricket authorities are considering, removing the snickometer and hotsport, preferring instead to rely on 60 year old Gerald's eyesight and hearing abilities to judge whether a 94 mph delivery edged the bat or not. Best not offend the old boy....he's a good old chap after all

Football - truly the world's most backward looking game

Just think how much better it would have been if we hadn't corrected Mr Magoo's decision at Old Trafford when Aubameyang was 4 yards onside and he still managed to flag it down. Would have been much better to lose 1-0 rather than the 1 minute inconvenience of reviewing the camera. Would have been a right shitter winning that 2001 FA Cup Final too when Henchoz stopped Henry making it 2-0 with his hand. Feels a lot better knowing the old c.unts on the day made an 'honest mistake'
What VAR has shown is 50 years ago when i first started watching football when MOTD has two games of highlights with one camera in the ground just how many mistakes the referees got away with

1. Let both managers have 3 appeals each half.If the decision isnt changed you lose one appeal. If you lose all your appeals like Australia did in the Ashes hard luck
2.Get ex players in the VAR booth.Referee's in the booth are afriad to over turn on field referee's decisions
3.Get referee's to use the monitor on the side of the pitch

I can understand point 1 but it doesn't improve things because so much of the problem (as in 100% of it) is down to useless spineless VAR officials who have decided to completely abuse, misinterpret and fu.ck up a perfectly good system.

Point 2, I agree with and have said the same on here. This is definitely worth a trial and would undoubtedly give better decisions.

Point 3, I don't think would be needed as much if we had point 2 in use.

Referees time and time again demonstrate that they do not understand the spirit of the game, it's just how it is when you reach that level of officialdom. They can't help it and are incapable of change so get rid of them out of the VAR room.


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