Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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NickF
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby NickF » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:01 am

I seen a video on Twitter of fans queuing at the turnstiles to leave at HT with some dickhead shouting at them "call yourselves Arsenal fans, your support is fucking shit". We are an absolute shitshow of a club, yet some people think blindly following is being a 'real fan'.
Maybe I'm wrong but go back 20 to 30 years, I don't recall fans walking out on the team in large numbers at halftime no matter how bad it was.

People support the team how they see fit, let's not go down the "real fans" argument.

Clash
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Clash » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:25 am

If Kroenke sees the supporters sitting there every week then why should he bother to do anything ?
Do you honestly think he cares?

His investment is worth less simply because we are not in the champions league, if that is not motivation enough, why should he care whether people turn up every week.

Long gone are the days when bums on seats actually meant something, you earn far more from TV rights nowadays.
Good point Nick and I agree with your other responses.

I see the let’s blame the ST holders thing is back again :roll: In all seriousness, I do understand the argument – but the point often missed is that there are many reasons people have season tickets at Arsenal and some wig wearing parasite owner who doesn’t give a f-ck about football isn’t reason enough on its own to give up something that’s been part of your life long before he was even heard of.

My dad reached his 60 years attendance mark at Arsenal a few weeks ago. For the first time he is hinting at calling it a day but that’s more to do with inconvenient kick off times and the increasing hassle of getting to the ground than what’s happening on the pitch.

And the pain in the arse kick off times thing brings me to another point. A lot of people have a pop at ST holders for lining Stan’s pockets. I understand why but in a different way, many of these people are just as guilty (for want of a better word) of maintaining the status quo.

GunnerRob for example wants an answer to why we still go to games …. but he watched the game in the pub! A fair chunk of the revenue generated by that pub pays for the Sky Sports subscription they have … and the subscription money that goes to Sky / BT eventually lines the pockets of Stan. So even if it feels like you’re paying someone else … and even if it is a less direct manner than paying the club for a ST … every penny counts.

Similarly, there are people who gave up ST’s … but still buy the new shirts every summer. Whose pockets do they think the revenue from shirt sales fills somewhere down the line? You might buy the shirt in a sport shop rather than the club shop but eventually a percentage of the money you parted with goes to Stan. Again it all adds up and every penny counts.

The point I am making, in a long-winded way, is that the evils of modern day football - and all the greed and riches that feed the likes of Kroenke and attracted him to the club in the first place - is being sustained by all of us who follow the club in some way or other. It is NOT just ST holders!

Also, the other point that regularly comes up is why people in the ground do not protest more. It is frustrating and there does seem an air of resignation in the ground at times. But maybe if the more of the long-standing fans had stuck around, there would have been greater numbers inside the ground that were prepared to protest and not prepared to tolerate the all the other nonsense we’ve suffered? Instead have a lot have gone and been replaced by a different sort of fan who sees things differently?

Looking at the state of the club now, was it the right decision to pack it in? Maybe for your own sanity and personal bank balance it was …. but if more people were in the ground to hound Wenger, Kroenke and Gazidis out back in say 2012 instead of ranting online about it, then we might be better off right now? Who knows!

And finally, as much as the protests in Feb/Mar 2017 by the guys on here were a fantastic and much appreciated effort … Wenger won the FA Cup and got a new contract a couple of months later. It probably set the tone but it was actually the much maligned ST holders that finished Wenger off by not attending games and leaving their seats empty. And you can only control what happens to your seat if you’ve bought one in the first place.

Admittedly this is a lot of waffle repeating what NickF managed to say in 3 lines. I am as frustrated as everyone else and just like everyone else, I do not have any answers or solutions.

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augie
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby augie » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:26 am

I seen a video on Twitter of fans queuing at the turnstiles to leave at HT with some dickhead shouting at them "call yourselves Arsenal fans, your support is fucking shit". We are an absolute shitshow of a club, yet some people think blindly following is being a 'real fan'.
Maybe I'm wrong but go back 20 to 30 years, I don't recall fans walking out on the team in large numbers at halftime no matter how bad it was.

People support the team how they see fit, let's not go down the "real fans" argument.



This is where I am too - I can understand fans leaving at ht and being utterly pissed off so I wouldn't question their commitment, but nor would I leave at half time. Doesn't make me any more or any less of a fan than they are. If there was going to be a protest at the end of the game and they decided to fcuk off anyway, THEN I would question them

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BFG4
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby BFG4 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:30 am

I seen a video on Twitter of fans queuing at the turnstiles to leave at HT with some dickhead shouting at them "call yourselves Arsenal fans, your support is fucking shit". We are an absolute shitshow of a club, yet some people think blindly following is being a 'real fan'.
Maybe I'm wrong but go back 20 to 30 years, I don't recall fans walking out on the team in large numbers at halftime no matter how bad it was.

People support the team how they see fit, let's not go down the "real fans" argument.
That's my point though, abusing people who chose to leave is ridiculous. I'd also say that the vast majority weren't leaving because it was 3-0, but more because the effort from the team was next to zero. Why put in the effort to stay when the players are putting in no effort. I used the 'real fan' argument when some dickhead decides he can judge other fans because they left. Support the team how you see fit but don't take that to shouting at those who support the team differently than you do.

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augie
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby augie » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:33 am

If Kroenke sees the supporters sitting there every week then why should he bother to do anything ?
Do you honestly think he cares?

His investment is worth less simply because we are not in the champions league, if that is not motivation enough, why should he care whether people turn up every week.

Long gone are the days when bums on seats actually meant something, you earn far more from TV rights nowadays.
Good point Nick and I agree with your other responses.

I see the let’s blame the ST holders thing is back again :roll: In all seriousness, I do understand the argument – but the point often missed is that there are many reasons people have season tickets at Arsenal and some wig wearing parasite owner who doesn’t give a f-ck about football isn’t reason enough on its own to give up something that’s been part of your life long before he was even heard of.

My dad reached his 60 years attendance mark at Arsenal a few weeks ago. For the first time he is hinting at calling it a day but that’s more to do with inconvenient kick off times and the increasing hassle of getting to the ground than what’s happening on the pitch.

And the pain in the arse kick off times thing brings me to another point. A lot of people have a pop at ST holders for lining Stan’s pockets. I understand why but in a different way, many of these people are just as guilty (for want of a better word) of maintaining the status quo.

GunnerRob for example wants an answer to why we still go to games …. but he watched the game in the pub! A fair chunk of the revenue generated by that pub pays for the Sky Sports subscription they have … and the subscription money that goes to Sky / BT eventually lines the pockets of Stan. So even if it feels like you’re paying someone else … and even if it is a less direct manner than paying the club for a ST … every penny counts.

Similarly, there are people who gave up ST’s … but still buy the new shirts every summer. Whose pockets do they think the revenue from shirt sales fills somewhere down the line? You might buy the shirt in a sport shop rather than the club shop but eventually a percentage of the money you parted with goes to Stan. Again it all adds up and every penny counts.

The point I am making, in a long-winded way, is that the evils of modern day football - and all the greed and riches that feed the likes of Kroenke and attracted him to the club in the first place - is being sustained by all of us who follow the club in some way or other. It is NOT just ST holders!

Also, the other point that regularly comes up is why people in the ground do not protest more. It is frustrating and there does seem an air of resignation in the ground at times. But maybe if the more of the long-standing fans had stuck around, there would have been greater numbers inside the ground that were prepared to protest and not prepared to tolerate the all the other nonsense we’ve suffered? Instead have a lot have gone and been replaced by a different sort of fan who sees things differently?

Looking at the state of the club now, was it the right decision to pack it in? Maybe for your own sanity and personal bank balance it was …. but if more people were in the ground to hound Wenger, Kroenke and Gazidis out back in say 2012 instead of ranting online about it, then we might be better off right now? Who knows!

And finally, as much as the protests in Feb/Mar 2017 by the guys on here were a fantastic and much appreciated effort … Wenger won the FA Cup and got a new contract a couple of months later. It probably set the tone but it was actually the much maligned ST holders that finished Wenger off by not attending games and leaving their seats empty. And you can only control what happens to your seat if you’ve bought one in the first place.

Admittedly this is a lot of waffle repeating what NickF managed to say in 3 lines. I am as frustrated as everyone else and just like everyone else, I do not have any answers or solutions.



I don't think I have ever judged people for renewing, but I do believe that they should be willing to sacrifice a match for the greater good - nothing looked worse (and accelerated wenger's departure) than the sights of seats empty that were already paid for. The media pounced on the fact that the fans would rather not bother to attend games that they had paid for, and that told a much bigger story than the protests imo. However, we still have thousands of fans who would rather attend simply because they have paid for their ticket, and therein lies the problem - a half full stadium on a match that is being watched all over the world (except china :wink: ) looks shocking for the club, and the modern day AFC is all about image and the brand

Gunner Rob
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Gunner Rob » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:56 am

I seen a video on Twitter of fans queuing at the turnstiles to leave at HT with some dickhead shouting at them "call yourselves Arsenal fans, your support is fucking shit". We are an absolute shitshow of a club, yet some people think blindly following is being a 'real fan'.
Maybe I'm wrong but go back 20 to 30 years, I don't recall fans walking out on the team in large numbers at halftime no matter how bad it was.

People support the team how they see fit, let's not go down the "real fans" argument.
you can't compare the current situation to 30 years ago.
back then you wouldn't have paid £80 for a ticket to watch Arsenal v Man City.
Arsenal are no longer a top team, don't aspire to be a top team and should price their tickets accordingly. They don't - they still pretend to be a top team, despite not acting like one. At some point they need to decide what direction they want to take and be honest with their fanbase. A lot of the anger and resentment is because of the dishonesty.

look at what it took for Blackpool to get their team back - until the Arsenal fanbase actually starts to face up to what it will take to get rid of Kroenke then the situation is unlikely to get better anytime soon.

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Herd
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Herd » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:01 pm

I don't blame Freddie for the current malaise but its's painfully clear our petulant pampered pricks won't play for him as they didn't for Emry !
They know he's only a stopgap so why should they bother ,that's the attitude and for that we can thank Ozil who has poisoned the entire squad.
But enough finger wagging ,If I was Arsenal I would be taking legal advice on his Instagram comments about China .
He will have some sort of clause in his contract that prevents him from pissing off sponsors political rants etc etc and I'm sure we have some Chinese partnerships ,if what he said represents a breach they may be able to fire him and rip up his contract without penalty . Its a long shot but its one t look at !

robbo10
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby robbo10 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:45 pm

I don't blame Freddie for the current malaise but its's painfully clear our petulant pampered pricks won't play for him as they didn't for Emry !
They know he's only a stopgap so why should they bother ,that's the attitude and for that we can thank Ozil who has poisoned the entire squad.
But enough finger wagging ,If I was Arsenal I would be taking legal advice on his Instagram comments about China .
He will have some sort of clause in his contract that prevents him from pissing off sponsors political rants etc etc and I'm sure we have some Chinese partnerships ,if what he said represents a breach they may be able to fire him and rip up his contract without penalty . Its a long shot but its one t look at !
Dont FIFA or UEFA (or both) already fine/ban clubs for political statements and banners? Imagine the furor though over trying to sack a player over his personal beliefs,albeit him airing it publicly,it would get fucking messy,I guess in a normal company Gross Misconduct could be enough but would this apply to a football club? Shame Ozil isnt as passionate on the pitch as he is about some things off it.Maybe if the club started losing Chinese money they might have a rethink.

Jock Gooner
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Jock Gooner » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:04 pm

I seen a video on Twitter of fans queuing at the turnstiles to leave at HT with some dickhead shouting at them "call yourselves Arsenal fans, your support is fucking shit". We are an absolute shitshow of a club, yet some people think blindly following is being a 'real fan'. This same guy probably spends his pre-match in the armory and then inside the stadium buys out the burger and beer stands, this is stan's no.1 customer. Any real fan at the moment is rightly pissed off at the club, not pretending everything is ok.
There is an article on some crappy site refering to the clip and also claiming that 15000 left at half time. Not quite true. There was no drop in numbers at the start of the second half but the video you refer to is fans leaving about 20 minutes before the end when the gates are still closed and you have to leave through the turnstiles. I know because we left at that point too. We walked round the lower concourse from the clock end to the north bank and there was a steady flow of people leaving at that stage. If you have a bit of a journey home then why waste any more time - a come back was hardly on the cards when city were cruising in 2nd gear.

Jock Gooner
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Jock Gooner » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:21 pm

If Kroenke sees the supporters sitting there every week then why should he bother to do anything ?
Do you honestly think he cares?

His investment is worth less simply because we are not in the champions league, if that is not motivation enough, why should he care whether people turn up every week.

Long gone are the days when bums on seats actually meant something, you earn far more from TV rights nowadays.
Good point Nick and I agree with your other responses.

I see the let’s blame the ST holders thing is back again :roll: In all seriousness, I do understand the argument – but the point often missed is that there are many reasons people have season tickets at Arsenal and some wig wearing parasite owner who doesn’t give a f-ck about football isn’t reason enough on its own to give up something that’s been part of your life long before he was even heard of.

My dad reached his 60 years attendance mark at Arsenal a few weeks ago. For the first time he is hinting at calling it a day but that’s more to do with inconvenient kick off times and the increasing hassle of getting to the ground than what’s happening on the pitch.

And the pain in the arse kick off times thing brings me to another point. A lot of people have a pop at ST holders for lining Stan’s pockets. I understand why but in a different way, many of these people are just as guilty (for want of a better word) of maintaining the status quo.

GunnerRob for example wants an answer to why we still go to games …. but he watched the game in the pub! A fair chunk of the revenue generated by that pub pays for the Sky Sports subscription they have … and the subscription money that goes to Sky / BT eventually lines the pockets of Stan. So even if it feels like you’re paying someone else … and even if it is a less direct manner than paying the club for a ST … every penny counts.

Similarly, there are people who gave up ST’s … but still buy the new shirts every summer. Whose pockets do they think the revenue from shirt sales fills somewhere down the line? You might buy the shirt in a sport shop rather than the club shop but eventually a percentage of the money you parted with goes to Stan. Again it all adds up and every penny counts.

The point I am making, in a long-winded way, is that the evils of modern day football - and all the greed and riches that feed the likes of Kroenke and attracted him to the club in the first place - is being sustained by all of us who follow the club in some way or other. It is NOT just ST holders!

Also, the other point that regularly comes up is why people in the ground do not protest more. It is frustrating and there does seem an air of resignation in the ground at times. But maybe if the more of the long-standing fans had stuck around, there would have been greater numbers inside the ground that were prepared to protest and not prepared to tolerate the all the other nonsense we’ve suffered? Instead have a lot have gone and been replaced by a different sort of fan who sees things differently?

Looking at the state of the club now, was it the right decision to pack it in? Maybe for your own sanity and personal bank balance it was …. but if more people were in the ground to hound Wenger, Kroenke and Gazidis out back in say 2012 instead of ranting online about it, then we might be better off right now? Who knows!

And finally, as much as the protests in Feb/Mar 2017 by the guys on here were a fantastic and much appreciated effort … Wenger won the FA Cup and got a new contract a couple of months later. It probably set the tone but it was actually the much maligned ST holders that finished Wenger off by not attending games and leaving their seats empty. And you can only control what happens to your seat if you’ve bought one in the first place.

Admittedly this is a lot of waffle repeating what NickF managed to say in 3 lines. I am as frustrated as everyone else and just like everyone else, I do not have any answers or solutions.
Absolutely right. It's easy to sit back and expect everyone else to make the running. Somebody else should give up their ST, somebody else should start the protests against wiggy, somebody else shouldn't buy merchandise and so on.

We've posted the fu.ck out of the TV money details v match day income to the point of groundhog day. Wiggy is a billionaire.....let's say it again a billionaire. That's a lot of noughts people. That cu.nt doesn't have to think twice about buying football clubs. The only realistic way to piss him off it would appear is by boycotting matches...empty seats, unhappy sponsors and adverse media comment. As I've said before I am more than happy to leave my seat empty but others maybe aren't. Until somebody tries to organise a boycott of a fixture we won't know.

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Herd
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby Herd » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:25 pm

Ive read the translation of his China slag , he is actually calling out the Islamic countries for their silence over the Uighur Muslims who have been ruthlessly cracked down upon after a series of terrorist attacks in China .
There's about 250,000 of them in forced re-education camps which is high when there's only about 10 million of them in total !
For years they were an irrelevancy but now they are considered a threat .
I can see FIFA the FA etc trying to get at him and I grant you it might be tough for us t sack him ,Im just wishful thinking !

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sk-gtfo
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Re: Citeh (H) PL 15/12 @ 16:30

Postby sk-gtfo » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:32 am

People can say 1000 words either way in defence or attack of people that buy tickets, but I have rarely seen any vocal stuff being aimed at Kroenke, I think one away game I can remember a bit but at home nothing but the odd murmur, which is pretty pathetic.


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