Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

Teflon's honeymoon period is well and truly over.

Bring in an A-lister with the balls to turn this shower of shit round and coach defending - preferably Simeone.

While I agree on Simeone (or Allegri) I don't think it will make a difference while the wig molester owns us. We need a complete rebuild. We need to offload and replace at least 5 or 6 first teamers and that wig fondling cùnt will never finance that.

this is the uncomfortable truth.
to balance the books we will now need to sell our best players and any that are brought in are now likely to be of a lesser standard than we already have. This is where hiring Arteta was a mistake - as a mid table club we need tough experienced PL players to drag us up the table.
Chris Wlder or Sean Dyche are managers that the old Arsenal would have turned to for help, in the way that George Graham arrived in 1986.

the club today has the mentality that we are better than those type of managers though.
that mindset will need to change and fast.

Absolutely right - our supporters will only realise it though when we're in the Championship

[xisstential]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -exit.html

Well that's encouraging.....not only are we losing games, respect & fans, believe it or not, we are somehow losing money as well. I haven't even bothered to look but I imagine we still have a healthy wage bill compared to what is an unhealthy squad

[augie]

The thing I think a couple of you lads are either entirely missing - or are just plain ignoring - is that the players we have on staff to replace those "senior players" are actually far worse players - with the exception of Martinelli obviously.

We have one of the worst weakest squads in our history at the moment.

AM-N, Willock, Nelson, the injured Chambers are all garbage of varying degrees at present and none of them are capable of stepping into that team and improving it right now. And some of them never will be.

Arteta is not experienced enough to find a solution to this but let's not rewrite the past ffs. We were complete shit under the likeable Emery. It's like last season's utter collapse in the easy PL run in and the debacle of the EL final and the completely shit chaos early this season never happened ! And hey let's not forget it was Dick that signed Pepe (the club record signing ffs) and Sideshow Chav too.

Torreira for xhaka and martinelli for either lacazette or pepe (take your pick), and the starting team is improved MASSIVELY. Personally I would argue for bringing in guendouzi alongside torreira and pushing ceballos up into ozil's position, but that is something that others would disagree with I know.

[SteveO 35]

The thing I think a couple of you lads are either entirely missing - or are just plain ignoring - is that the players we have on staff to replace those "senior players" are actually far worse players - with the exception of Martinelli obviously.

We have one of the worst weakest squads in our history at the moment.

AM-N, Willock, Nelson, the injured Chambers are all garbage of varying degrees at present and none of them are capable of stepping into that team and improving it right now. And some of them never will be.

Arteta is not experienced enough to find a solution to this but let's not rewrite the past ffs. We were complete shit under the likeable Emery. It's like last season's utter collapse in the easy PL run in and the debacle of the EL final and the completely shit chaos early this season never happened ! And hey let's not forget it was Dick that signed Pepe (the club record signing ffs) and Sideshow Chav too.

The situation with the squad is no worse for Arteta than it was for Emery - yet again people discounting the arguments for Emery and awarding them to Arteta. 22 games unbeaten before season long injuries to two of the defenders in the backline plus Welbeck. What was the quality of the replacements like for him? Oh yeah the very same AMN and Mustafi that everyone discredits now.....poor Mikel eh. I seem to remember it was Dick who brought Martinelli too and gave him the platform that everyone now craves to see him on

Everyone just brings up the last few games of last season and the last 7 or so before he left this season - the fact that he got a worse squad than this one to within a whisker of the CL on two scores was a miracle. This imposter won't achieve that in three seasons let alone one. We're also in a lower position now this season than when Dick left. Unbelievable that the c.unts we were on the verge of getting rid of like Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil are all now main stays - going backwards fast

[GoonerMuzz]

Funny how when we were shit under Emery it was nothing to do with him but the all the players fault, now we've lost for the first time in 10 matches under Arteta it's all his fault, fuck me some of the observations on here are truly embarrassing

Some of you need to go into politics, PR or even marketing because you could spin a yarn that would have the Arabs buying back oil at double the price....

Simple fact is for all our vaunted big name, previous history, blah, blah, fucking blah between Wenger and then Emery they've managed to put together one of the most ineffective and lacklustre groups of senior players I've ever seen, those two managers with all that experience have put together a shit show but it's all now Pep's cone boys fault

This bunch of players couldn't be turned around by red nose in his hay day because they are that shit as a group that there is nothing to build from. A team, contrary to idiotic popular belief and Sky Sports tm, is not built from individual skill alone but from group dynamic of which there is none amongst this bunch of prima donna's.

Arteta should never have been appointed, everyone says that, I've not seen a single member on here say he should have been, but members on here didnt appoint him the fucknuggets running the club did and he has been left with a legacy of dogshit players and farcical club directorship to work with but let's blame the one left with the shitshow not of his making anyway rather than those, including Emery who put us here.

His choices last night were confusing but then again apart from Martinelli on the wing and Torriera for Xhaka, exactly which other players could he have changed, Sokratis at RB for the dogshit Bellefin.... that worked well last time, Willock for Pepe is more a question of who is the least shit as opposed to who is better, Sokratis for Mustafi or Luiz, he can only just fill one nevermind 3 spots, Replace Ozil with Guendozi or Ceballos, ok so who fill Ceballos spot, Guendozi, the consistently worst young player recently....... when you begin to break it down his choices are very limited because he simply has been left a shit bunch of disinterested, lacklustre and woefully inadequate players nearly everywhere on the park.

I'll honestly be surprised if he can keep us in 9/10th never mind a European spot, not because of his choices but because of his lack of them due to mismanagement by others at the club in the past

[SteveO 35]

Funny how when we were shit under Emery it was nothing to do with him but the all the players fault, now we've lost for the first time in 10 matches under Arteta it's all his fault, fuck me some of the observations on here are truly embarrassing

Some of you need to go into politics, PR or even marketing because you could spin a yarn that would have the Arabs buying back oil at double the price....

Simple fact is for all our vaunted big name, previous history, blah, blah, fucking blah between Wenger and then Emery they've managed to put together one of the most ineffective and lacklustre groups of senior players I've ever seen, those two managers with all that experience have put together a shit show but it's all now Pep's cone boys fault

This bunch of players couldn't be turned around by red nose in his hay day because they are that shit as a group that there is nothing to build from. A team, contrary to idiotic popular belief and Sky Sports tm, is not built from individual skill alone but from group dynamic of which there is none amongst this bunch of prima donna's.

Arteta should never have been appointed, everyone says that, I've not seen a single member on here say he should have been, but members on here didnt appoint him the fucknuggets running the club did and he has been left with a legacy of dogshit players and farcical club directorship to work with but let's blame the one left with the shitshow not of his making anyway rather than those, including Emery who put us here.

His choices last night were confusing but then again apart from Martinelli on the wing and Torriera for Xhaka, exactly which other players could he have changed, Sokratis at RB for the dogshit Bellefin.... that worked well last time, Willock for Pepe is more a question of who is the least shit as opposed to who is better, Sokratis for Mustafi or Luiz, he can only just fill one nevermind 3 spots, Replace Ozil with Guendozi or Ceballos, ok so who fill Ceballos spot, Guendozi, the consistently worst young player recently....... when you begin to break it down his choices are very limited because he simply has been left a shit bunch of disinterested, lacklustre and woefully inadequate players nearly everywhere on the park.

I'll honestly be surprised if he can keep us in 9/10th never mind a European spot, not because of his choices but because of his lack of them due to mismanagement by others at the club in the past

Nobody's saying it was nothing to do with Emery - of course he made mistakes - but it seems like everyone's favourite new freebie has got a 'free hit' to do what the fuck he likes. Emery wasn't my first choice at the time (nor was he for many) but he was/is an experienced coach with a track record of doing well on a small budget - Valencia, Sevilla. He inherited a decade of underachieving wankers - I'm sure I don't need to dig back too far on this forum to remind people of the comments about the likes of Ramsey, Mhkitaryan, Elneny, Cech and fuck knows how many other little flowers and he was starting to get rid of them all one by one. Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi were the next in line for the exit door. With the possible exception of David Luiz, I'd like to know how many shit players Arteta inherited who were brought to the club by Dick. Leno, Torreira and Martinelli have arguably been amongst the better players. The ones who are getting most of the stick now like Bellerin are the jokers Wenger made his mainstays

Why is it ok to say Arteta needs years to turn around this bunch, but it was ok to fire Emery not even halfway through his second season?

Emery had fucking dreadful options - Bellerin or AMN at right back for starters. Wenger let just about every saleable asset walk away for nothing, and tied useless pricks like Mustafi, Ozil and Mkhitaryan to the sort of contracts that made them unsellable.

Nobody's saying he didn't make mistakes - its just that everyone seems to have airbrushed from history the shit he inherited from Wenger.....shit that even the most impatient on here, once upon a time said would take "years to sort out"

[augie]

I too cannot understand (and cannot agree with) how arteta seems to be getting a free pass from so many, when those same fans were on emery's back for a lot less. Last nights horror show is definitely on the players as much as the manager, but 95% of the blame on here is being thrown at players (laca, bellend, xhaka etc.) whilst arteta seems to have come out unscathed despite a shocking display of his managerial talents.

My eldest lad said to me today that he wants to go two years without seeing fans calling for a change of manager, and that is why he is firmly in arteta's corner - I too would like to see a period of managerial stability which is why I stood by emery for so long, but once the fans turned against him, I wanted him gone just to avoid regressing into a period where anger amongst the fans is the dominant emotion. Emery's fcuk up's were becoming more frequent but he was working under serious pressure with the players undermining him everywhere he turned - now the players are supposedly in arteta's corner, and the fans are in his corner, but yet the results and performances (not work-rate) have been worse

[Jock Gooner]

This bunch of players couldn't be turned around by red nose in his hay day because they are that shit as a group that there is nothing to build from. A team, contrary to idiotic popular belief and Sky Sports tm, is not built from individual skill alone but from group dynamic of which there is none amongst this bunch of prima donna's.

Arteta should never have been appointed, everyone says that, I've not seen a single member on here say he should have been, but members on here didnt appoint him the fucknuggets running the club did and he has been left with a legacy of dogshit players and farcical club directorship to work with but let's blame the one left with the shitshow not of his making anyway rather than those, including Emery who put us here.

That is a fair reflection of where we are.

I was listening to El Pel on Talkshite earlier and he correctly listed all the players at the club (and on loan) who need to be binned which was novel to hear as you don't often get an ex-pro being that honest. He recounted that when GG brought him to the club he was looking for young players with desire and that was an attribute which GG said he couldn't coach into players as they needed to possess it themselves. Obvious really but when you look at so many of our squad it is a struggle to find an ounce of desire between the lot of them.

Sorry but these debates about Emery and Arteta are fucking pointless as we already know that the Board fu.cked up with the last two appointments as there were better options available which they overlooked on both occasions. There is no doubt that cheapness played a part in the latest appointment and coupled with that they also got a yes man who will not rock the boat or upset wiggy. Essentially it's an argument over who might best polish the proverbial turd.

As much as I wanted Dick to go, I certainly didn't want Arteta as a replacement. His insistence with Xhaka and Mustafi beggars belief and I'm not convinced about his use of Ozil either. We really are a fu.cking joke at the moment and until that wiggy cu.nt disappears I can't take this lot seriously anymore.

[Nos89]

I'll speculate again, I would not be surprised to see another managerial change in the summer. The two that spring to mind are Brendon Rodgers and Conte.
There was a strong suggestion that Rodgers fancied the job before arteta got it and if an opportunity was given to him in the summer then i think he would leave Leicester for a club like ours. European football may not be a necessary enticement. The size of the club would.
I'm sure I heard Conte say he loves the Premier League and would come back. Again European football would not be key as he joined chelski when they failed to qualify for any European competition. Without the distraction he won the league.
No doubt arteta has been tasked with CL qualification and if it's achieved then he'll get another season. If not, they (the board) may go for a more established figure. Both know how to manage a big club. Although we are off the pace we are still a big club.

[augie]

This bunch of players couldn't be turned around by red nose in his hay day because they are that shit as a group that there is nothing to build from. A team, contrary to idiotic popular belief and Sky Sports tm, is not built from individual skill alone but from group dynamic of which there is none amongst this bunch of prima donna's.

Arteta should never have been appointed, everyone says that, I've not seen a single member on here say he should have been, but members on here didnt appoint him the fucknuggets running the club did and he has been left with a legacy of dogshit players and farcical club directorship to work with but let's blame the one left with the shitshow not of his making anyway rather than those, including Emery who put us here.

That is a fair reflection of where we are.

I was listening to El Pel on Talkshite earlier and he correctly listed all the players at the club (and on loan) who need to be binned which was novel to hear as you don't often get an ex-pro being that honest. He recounted that when GG brought him to the club he was looking for young players with desire and that was an attribute which GG said he couldn't coach into players as they needed to possess it themselves. Obvious really but when you look at so many of our squad it is a struggle to find an ounce of desire between the lot of them.

Sorry but these debates about Emery and Arteta are fucking pointless as we already know that the Board fu.cked up with the last two appointments as there were better options available which they overlooked on both occasions. There is no doubt that cheapness played a part in the latest appointment and coupled with that they also got a yes man who will not rock the boat or upset wiggy. Essentially it's an argument over who might best polish the proverbial turd.

As much as I wanted Dick to go, I certainly didn't want Arteta as a replacement. His insistence with Xhaka and Mustafi beggars belief and I'm not convinced about his use of Ozil either. We really are a fu.cking joke at the moment and until that wiggy cu.nt disappears I can't take this lot seriously anymore.

Even though I am critical of arteta, I have to say that I don't think that he will be a yes man with the board - I think that he is an absolute pushover for some of the senior players, but I think that he will be demanding of the board when it comes to getting the backing he expects

[Jock Gooner]

This bunch of players couldn't be turned around by red nose in his hay day because they are that shit as a group that there is nothing to build from. A team, contrary to idiotic popular belief and Sky Sports tm, is not built from individual skill alone but from group dynamic of which there is none amongst this bunch of prima donna's.

Arteta should never have been appointed, everyone says that, I've not seen a single member on here say he should have been, but members on here didnt appoint him the fucknuggets running the club did and he has been left with a legacy of dogshit players and farcical club directorship to work with but let's blame the one left with the shitshow not of his making anyway rather than those, including Emery who put us here.

That is a fair reflection of where we are.

I was listening to El Pel on Talkshite earlier and he correctly listed all the players at the club (and on loan) who need to be binned which was novel to hear as you don't often get an ex-pro being that honest. He recounted that when GG brought him to the club he was looking for young players with desire and that was an attribute which GG said he couldn't coach into players as they needed to possess it themselves. Obvious really but when you look at so many of our squad it is a struggle to find an ounce of desire between the lot of them.

Sorry but these debates about Emery and Arteta are fucking pointless as we already know that the Board fu.cked up with the last two appointments as there were better options available which they overlooked on both occasions. There is no doubt that cheapness played a part in the latest appointment and coupled with that they also got a yes man who will not rock the boat or upset wiggy. Essentially it's an argument over who might best polish the proverbial turd.

As much as I wanted Dick to go, I certainly didn't want Arteta as a replacement. His insistence with Xhaka and Mustafi beggars belief and I'm not convinced about his use of Ozil either. We really are a fu.cking joke at the moment and until that wiggy cu.nt disappears I can't take this lot seriously anymore.

Even though I am critical of arteta, I have to say that I don't think that he will be a yes man with the board - I think that he is an absolute pushover for some of the senior players, but I think that he will be demanding of the board when it comes to getting the backing he expects

Well only time will tell which way that goes but if he can't stand up to the players I doubt very much that he will stand up to the guy who signs off on his pay cheque. My own opinion is that the appointments of both Emery and Arteta were made by the Board (wiggy) safe in the knowledge that neither of them are big enough fish to cause major problems. Appointing the likes of Allegri or Ancelotti would have presented wiggy with a whole different ball game that he clearly didn't fancy getting into.

[sk-gtfo]

Well only time will tell which way that goes but if he can't stand up to the players I doubt very much that he will stand up to the guy who signs off on his pay cheque. My own opinion is that the appointments of both Emery and Arteta were made by the Board (wiggy) safe in the knowledge that neither of them are big enough fish to cause major problems. Appointing the likes of Allegri or Ancelotti would have presented wiggy with a whole different ball game that he clearly didn't fancy getting into.

Exactimundo, as they say in the Dordoin Rodney.

Emery was well briefed in working to a strict budget at the likes of Sevilla and Valencia, P$G was his exception where he 'blew it' because they expect you to win the CL (lol), then it was back to Arsenal (now the Sevilla of the PL) thanks to wiggy, Arteta is inexperienced and will accept similar terms most likely.

Big names like Allegri would expect a hefty budget and backing from the board rather than being told to sell to buy and use the academy, which is decent but not top level.

The sad thing with Arsenal at present is there is just NO hope, I mean you can take lean years when there is hope but there just isn't, the club really timed it as badly as they could to have fallen out of the CL when they did, just as the gap in TV money etc. was getting bigger, Liverpool got lucky as they did the polar opposite and were sh*te a lot of the time when it didn't really matter as much.

All those f*cking pointless top 4's for a decade, what did it achieve? - keeping wiggy happy and less likely to f*ck off, yep well done Wenger..

[wilson2.0]

Its not an overreaction. Good managers do not lose a two legged tie to a Greek team. If we had of lost to a mid table La Liga club it would have been more dignified, but then again we are mid table premier league. So why should we expect to win that tie in the first place.

Us And AC Milan are case studies for fallen giants. Follow the timeline and analyse each major decision and its material impact to the decline in quality. From selling our best players, to spending a fortune on players who dont make an impac. Example is the 100m spend on Saliba and Pepe, now both might be great players on the future, but to spend 100m on the future when you need a quality injection immediately is negligence. Of course it goes back to Wenger over a decade ago. When we went form challenging from the title to celebrating 4th, then we went fro 4th to 6th and champions league outsiders, now we are mid table. Little by little expectations were lowered and it became the norm. There was never a moment where the club thought, hang on, were on the edge of sliding, lets make a charge upwards. AC Milan have a nasty habit of signing older big name players in a vain attempt to prove they are still relevant, they just signed Zlatan from LA Galaxy - that will strike fear into Juventus.

I went on youtube the other day and come across the 2-0 win at the San Siro were Fabregas and Adebayor scored, and it really did feel like history, like watching a video Newcastle challenging United for the title. You think wow, Newcastle United almost won the premier league. Well how long before people will be surprised that Arsenal once played in the champions league and were considered among the best teams in England.

[SteveO 35]

Its not an overreaction. Good managers do not lose a two legged tie to a Greek team. If we had of lost to a mid table La Liga club it would have been more dignified, but then again we are mid table premier league. So why should we expect to win that tie in the first place.

Us And AC Milan are case studies for fallen giants. Follow the timeline and analyse each major decision and its material impact to the decline in quality. From selling our best players, to spending a fortune on players who dont make an impac. Example is the 100m spend on Saliba and Pepe, now both might be great players on the future, but to spend 100m on the future when you need a quality injection immediately is negligence. Of course it goes back to Wenger over a decade ago. When we went form challenging from the title to celebrating 4th, then we went fro 4th to 6th and champions league outsiders, now we are mid table. Little by little expectations were lowered and it became the norm. There was never a moment where the club thought, hang on, were on the edge of sliding, lets make a charge upwards. AC Milan have a nasty habit of signing older big name players in a vain attempt to prove they are still relevant, they just signed Zlatan from LA Galaxy - that will strike fear into Juventus.

I went on youtube the other day and come across the 2-0 win at the San Siro were Fabregas and Adebayor scored, and it really did feel like history, like watching a video Newcastle challenging United for the title. You think wow, Newcastle United almost won the premier league. Well how long before people will be surprised that Arsenal once played in the champions league and were considered among the best teams in England.

Great post mate - and that team with Fabregas and Adebayor was the one where I gave Wenger credit for trying to rebuild the Invincibles. When he allowed that team to break up year after year and started replacing the replacements with shite, the game was up and he should have gone a decade ago.

When we did finally fire him we hired a manager with a proven track on a shoestring - FFS Valencia were virtually bankrupt and Sevilla a provincial team with no history of winning trophies. Now we've panicked and gone for someone who hasn't proven anything anywhere other than be successful by association at a team now facing a 2 year ban for breach of FFP rules.

In another 10-15 years we will have morphed into Everton. My eldest lad is 19 and when we discuss 'old football' and events like Everton winning the league twice, you get that "really?" look. The next generation will look at us that way. Arsenal went a whole season unbeaten? As in Arsenal who finish 10th....

[Jock Gooner]

Well only time will tell which way that goes but if he can't stand up to the players I doubt very much that he will stand up to the guy who signs off on his pay cheque. My own opinion is that the appointments of both Emery and Arteta were made by the Board (wiggy) safe in the knowledge that neither of them are big enough fish to cause major problems. Appointing the likes of Allegri or Ancelotti would have presented wiggy with a whole different ball game that he clearly didn't fancy getting into.

Exactimundo, as they say in the Dordoin Rodney.

Emery was well briefed in working to a strict budget at the likes of Sevilla and Valencia, P$G was his exception where he 'blew it' because they expect you to win the CL (lol), then it was back to Arsenal (now the Sevilla of the PL) thanks to wiggy, Arteta is inexperienced and will accept similar terms most likely.

Big names like Allegri would expect a hefty budget and backing from the board rather than being told to sell to buy and use the academy, which is decent but not top level.

The sad thing with Arsenal at present is there is just NO hope, I mean you can take lean years when there is hope but there just isn't, the club really timed it as badly as they could to have fallen out of the CL when they did, just as the gap in TV money etc. was getting bigger, Liverpool got lucky as they did the polar opposite and were sh*te a lot of the time when it didn't really matter as much.

All those f*cking pointless top 4's for a decade, what did it achieve? - keeping wiggy happy and less likely to f*ck off, yep well done Wenger..

Indeed, indeed Chateauneuf du Pape Rodney.

If it wasn't so farcical it might almost be funny. When you look back at the timing of the press leak about the Board considering Allegri to have been arrogant at his first interview when Dick got the job. As life long footy fans just stop and have a think on that for a moment - our fuc.king done nothing, not a clue about footy Board of wankers think that one of the most successful managers of the modern day era with titles a plenty and CL wins to his name is arrogant. The board of a club who have been in decline for how many years think that a winning manager is arrogant. Sums us up nicely at the moment, don't you think.

Of course the timing of that little snippet came just as they were going to have to try and justify appointing Arteta over the likes of Allegri and Ancelotti. Brilliant idea chaps we'll call the Italian guy out as being 'arrogant' so we don't have to put up with his sort here, now whose got the number for that nice polite young Spanish chap. Our board really are a useless bunch of cu.nts.