Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[augie]

[SteveO 35]

15 points this time last year but less than a month away from the tin tack. 9 points from 3 EL games

12 points this year and 9 EL points - safe as houses, man with a master plan etc

Sometimes in life you get what you deserve

Meanwhile Villareal go 2nd in Spain

[Leyton Gooner]

Fucking beige *word censored*. Time to get fucking rid

[SteveO 35]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

[SteveO 35]

My selection of between 9th and 12th looks optimistic !

[A11M11]

Mid table - Cup team

[Nos89]

15 points this time last year but less than a month away from the tin tack. 9 points from 3 EL games

12 points this year and 9 EL points - safe as houses, man with a master plan etc

Sometimes in life you get what you deserve

Meanwhile Villareal go 2nd in Spain

Emery showed in 18 months that he wasn't cut out for managing in the Premier League. Had we played Eintract Frankfurt in the Europa League final and not the chavs we would have won it, and playing in the Champions League. Emery will no doubt be a success in Spain but he just didn't get to the level needed in the Premier League. Now if he had was sitting 2nd in the Premier League with say for example Everton, that's proving a point.

[Nos89]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

So, you've not enjoyed beating Liverpool (twice), Man Utd (twice), Man City, and Chelski??? After 6 years perpetual humpings by these clubs. He's doing a better job than he's given credit for.

[SteveO 35]

15 points this time last year but less than a month away from the tin tack. 9 points from 3 EL games

12 points this year and 9 EL points - safe as houses, man with a master plan etc

Sometimes in life you get what you deserve

Meanwhile Villareal go 2nd in Spain

Emery showed in 18 months that he wasn't cut out for managing in the Premier League. Had we played Eintract Frankfurt in the Europa League final and not the chavs we would have won it, and playing in the Champions League. Emery will no doubt be a success in Spain but he just didn't get to the level needed in the Premier League. Now if he had was sitting 2nd in the Premier League with say for example Everton, that's proving a point.

And the level Arteta has got us to in the Premier League is 8th last season (Emery 5th and 1 point off the CL places) and currently 11th this season, 3 points worse off than we were under Emery a few weeks before he got booted. Like I said, he has till the end of this season regardless. By that stage it will be nigh on a season and a half and with the same restrictions and budget as the previous manager.

[g88ner]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

So, you've not enjoyed beating Liverpool (twice), Man Utd (twice), Man City, and Chelski??? After 6 years perpetual humpings by these clubs. He's doing a better job than he's given credit for.

To be fair, SteveO did mention the FA cup and the added hope going into the bigger games so that covers your question... I’m assuming he did enjoy beating the big 6.

The worrying thing for me is that we’re okay setting up defensively against top teams (and huge credit for that!) but we’re dreadfully poor at going on the offensive against weaker opposition.

This was something we were poor at last season and it’s carried on into this season too. Yes we narrowly beat sheff utd and west ham, but the performances were just as uninspiring and devoid of creativity as the defeats to Leicester and villa.

I don’t get the call for Arteta to be sacked though - it’s way too early for that. The only way Arteta (and Emery before him) will get this team functioning properly is via the transfer market. That’ll take time though because shifting overpaid players from a bloated squad, that seemingly no other club has an interest in, is proving almost impossible.

[SteveO 35]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

So, you've not enjoyed beating Liverpool (twice), Man Utd (twice), Man City, and Chelski??? After 6 years perpetual humpings by these clubs. He's doing a better job than he's given credit for.

To be fair, SteveO did mention the FA cup and the added hope going into the bigger games so that covers your question... I’m assuming he did enjoy beating the big 6.

The worrying thing for me is that we’re okay setting up defensively against top teams (and huge credit for that!) but we’re dreadfully poor at going on the offensive against weaker opposition.

This was something we were poor at last season and it’s carried on into this season too. Yes we narrowly beat sheff utd and west ham, but the performances were just as uninspiring and devoid of creativity as the defeats to Leicester and villa.

I don’t get the call for Arteta to be sacked though - it’s way too early for that. The only way Arteta (and Emery before him) will get this team functioning properly is via the transfer market. That’ll take time though because shifting overpaid players from a bloated squad, that seemingly no other club has an interest in, is proving almost impossible.

That's exactly it - I've gone out of my way several times for giving him a lot of credit for making us tough to beat and the notable wins over the top six. I've also said the FA Cup win against all odds was excellent - in fact in the first sentence of my post above I mentioned it !

I see it like g88ner does though - and by the way I did last season too when we were serving up dross against Bournemouth, Palace, Burnley etc, the warning signs were there then. The performances against the lesser teams are awful. He has been manager for approaching a year and those performances haven't improved. In fact yesterday's performance was a new low as the defensive part gave way too.

I have also said from the start he has the same time afforded to him as Emery. Actually Emery was giving less than a season and a half, and less money to spend on players, but I'll give Arteta till the end of this season and another transfer window (Emery had 3 windows too).

Double standards on here however. The "Emery Out" brigade had already prepared to sack him when we lost 2-3 at home to Palace before the end of his first season and as disappointing though the collapse to end that season was, we finished a single point outside the top 4. I still maintain that was an AMAZING achievement after the shit he was left with. Jesus, people forget in Wenger's final year there was talking of going the whole second half of the season without an away win and we finished a distant sixth. Yes, we were well beaten in the Europa League final - beaten by an unplayable Eden Hazard when injuries had robbed us of half our back line for almost the entire season. When he was eventually sacked we were already virtually through the EL group, and 7th in the league. We had more points after 8 games last year than we have this year and before anyone brings up difficult games, those first 8 includes Spurs, Liverpool and United.

Some people have got a pre-meditated agenda - a blurred and biased vision of the past, where Emery was clueless and Arteta is 'one of our own' and some sort of super coach. I hear all sorts of mitigating circumstances mentioned for one and not the other.

Arteta has a tough job - of that there is no doubt. I personally would still give him the rest of this season, despite the fact that in my opinion our performances are worse than they were under Emery. He has earned that in my view. But if you kid yourself that we've somehow progressed massively then we haven't. Its a different type of football - one that produces stronger performances against the top six generally.......but a league season is based over 38 games, and I'm afraid that whilst our performances against 5 or 6 clubs are better.......against 13 or 14 they most definitely are not. If people can't see that, then I'm afraid they'd already made their minds up before the evidence that is being played out each week for all to see

[rodders999]

He has until the end of the season for me (or I shall judge him in May if you prefer ) but last night was the first time I became seriously concerned about him being in charge.

Watching other teams slick, powerful and most importantly lightning quick attacking play and then comparing it to the absolute mind numbingly slow, turgid and boring sideways/backwards shit we produce where we barely even have any shots let alone goals is like watching two completely different sports.

He has to get some sort of balance in the team. Willian is fucking shit, another chav fucking dud, as is Laca. Saka has done fuck all this season too and Auba is dead out on the left.

Do you fuck in Nelson and Pepe with Auba through the middle? It, at the very least, would be something different from the same shit being served up by the same players every game at the very least.

He has to try something because if he keeps playing the same hopelessly out of form players in the same positions he will be out the door sooner rather than later.

[goonersid]

He has until the end of the season for me (or I shall judge him in May if you prefer ) but last night was the first time I became seriously concerned about him being in charge.

Watching other teams slick, powerful and most importantly lightning quick attacking play and then comparing it to the absolute mind numbingly slow, turgid and boring sideways/backwards shit we produce where we barely even have any shots let alone goals is like watching two completely different sports.

He has to get some sort of balance in the team. Willian is fucking shit, another chav fucking dud, as is Laca. Saka has done fuck all this season too and Auba is dead out on the left.

Do you fuck in Nelson and Pepe with Auba through the middle? It, at the very least, would be something different from the same shit being served up by the same players every game at the very least.

He has to try something because if he keeps playing the same hopelessly out of form players in the same positions he will be out the door sooner rather than later.

I fear we have no choice but to wait until May.
I can’t however see him turning things around.
We’re doomed laddie doomed!

[augie]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

So, you've not enjoyed beating Liverpool (twice), Man Utd (twice), Man City, and Chelski??? After 6 years perpetual humpings by these clubs. He's doing a better job than he's given credit for.

To be fair, SteveO did mention the FA cup and the added hope going into the bigger games so that covers your question... I’m assuming he did enjoy beating the big 6.

The worrying thing for me is that we’re okay setting up defensively against top teams (and huge credit for that!) but we’re dreadfully poor at going on the offensive against weaker opposition.

This was something we were poor at last season and it’s carried on into this season too. Yes we narrowly beat sheff utd and west ham, but the performances were just as uninspiring and devoid of creativity as the defeats to Leicester and villa.

I don’t get the call for Arteta to be sacked though - it’s way too early for that. The only way Arteta (and Emery before him) will get this team functioning properly is via the transfer market. That’ll take time though because shifting overpaid players from a bloated squad, that seemingly no other club has an interest in, is proving almost impossible.

That's exactly it - I've gone out of my way several times for giving him a lot of credit for making us tough to beat and the notable wins over the top six. I've also said the FA Cup win against all odds was excellent - in fact in the first sentence of my post above I mentioned it !

I see it like g88ner does though - and by the way I did last season too when we were serving up dross against Bournemouth, Palace, Burnley etc, the warning signs were there then. The performances against the lesser teams are awful. He has been manager for approaching a year and those performances haven't improved. In fact yesterday's performance was a new low as the defensive part gave way too.

I have also said from the start he has the same time afforded to him as Emery. Actually Emery was giving less than a season and a half, and less money to spend on players, but I'll give Arteta till the end of this season and another transfer window (Emery had 3 windows too).

Double standards on here however. The "Emery Out" brigade had already prepared to sack him when we lost 2-3 at home to Palace before the end of his first season and as disappointing though the collapse to end that season was, we finished a single point outside the top 4. I still maintain that was an AMAZING achievement after the shit he was left with. Jesus, people forget in Wenger's final year there was talking of going the whole second half of the season without an away win and we finished a distant sixth. Yes, we were well beaten in the Europa League final - beaten by an unplayable Eden Hazard when injuries had robbed us of half our back line for almost the entire season. When he was eventually sacked we were already virtually through the EL group, and 7th in the league. We had more points after 8 games last year than we have this year and before anyone brings up difficult games, those first 8 includes Spurs, Liverpool and United.

Some people have got a pre-meditated agenda - a blurred and biased vision of the past, where Emery was clueless and Arteta is 'one of our own' and some sort of super coach. I hear all sorts of mitigating circumstances mentioned for one and not the other.

Arteta has a tough job - of that there is no doubt. I personally would still give him the rest of this season, despite the fact that in my opinion our performances are worse than they were under Emery. He has earned that in my view. But if you kid yourself that we've somehow progressed massively then we haven't. Its a different type of football - one that produces stronger performances against the top six generally.......but a league season is based over 38 games, and I'm afraid that whilst our performances against 5 or 6 clubs are better.......against 13 or 14 they most definitely are not. If people can't see that, then I'm afraid they'd already made their minds up before the evidence that is being played out each week for all to see

Point No.1 - I would go so far as to say that emery was always one step away from being turned against. If we had of signed him direct from seville I think that he would have got more support and leeway, but he came to us from psg where his reputation had been tarnished and he was labelled as a manager that couldnt handle superstars. It is my opinion that SOME players took the piss cos of that, and I would say that MANY fans were waiting for the first signs of that type of trouble to turn against him - the possibility that it was the players that were taking the piss never entered those fans minds cos they had a pre-determined opinion on emery cos of his psg time

Point No.2 - It isnt that arteta is viewed as one of our own, it is because he worked briefly with pep so clearly he must be brilliant The citeeh show is pep's and no-one else's - he might delegate some duties to his coaches, but tactics and team selections and all the important stuff is pep's decisions, but arteta has been allowed build a reputation based on nothing. There are loads of examples of coaches that are good number 2's but that couldnt step up as a manager, but somehow some of our fans believe that this is different

Point No.3 - doesnt that sound awfully like GG's last few seasons at the club where we had turned into a cup team that could beat anyone on their day, but a team that didnt have too many of those days in a season ? GG got sacked for allowing us turn into a mid-table cup team, but now this kind of performance is meant to be a good thing ??

[SteveO 35]

Thanks for the FA Cup and for giving us some hope going into the games against the top four sides.

That's all. Beyond that I can't think of anything I've enjoyed

So, you've not enjoyed beating Liverpool (twice), Man Utd (twice), Man City, and Chelski??? After 6 years perpetual humpings by these clubs. He's doing a better job than he's given credit for.

To be fair, SteveO did mention the FA cup and the added hope going into the bigger games so that covers your question... I’m assuming he did enjoy beating the big 6.

The worrying thing for me is that we’re okay setting up defensively against top teams (and huge credit for that!) but we’re dreadfully poor at going on the offensive against weaker opposition.

This was something we were poor at last season and it’s carried on into this season too. Yes we narrowly beat sheff utd and west ham, but the performances were just as uninspiring and devoid of creativity as the defeats to Leicester and villa.

I don’t get the call for Arteta to be sacked though - it’s way too early for that. The only way Arteta (and Emery before him) will get this team functioning properly is via the transfer market. That’ll take time though because shifting overpaid players from a bloated squad, that seemingly no other club has an interest in, is proving almost impossible.

That's exactly it - I've gone out of my way several times for giving him a lot of credit for making us tough to beat and the notable wins over the top six. I've also said the FA Cup win against all odds was excellent - in fact in the first sentence of my post above I mentioned it !

I see it like g88ner does though - and by the way I did last season too when we were serving up dross against Bournemouth, Palace, Burnley etc, the warning signs were there then. The performances against the lesser teams are awful. He has been manager for approaching a year and those performances haven't improved. In fact yesterday's performance was a new low as the defensive part gave way too.

I have also said from the start he has the same time afforded to him as Emery. Actually Emery was giving less than a season and a half, and less money to spend on players, but I'll give Arteta till the end of this season and another transfer window (Emery had 3 windows too).

Double standards on here however. The "Emery Out" brigade had already prepared to sack him when we lost 2-3 at home to Palace before the end of his first season and as disappointing though the collapse to end that season was, we finished a single point outside the top 4. I still maintain that was an AMAZING achievement after the shit he was left with. Jesus, people forget in Wenger's final year there was talking of going the whole second half of the season without an away win and we finished a distant sixth. Yes, we were well beaten in the Europa League final - beaten by an unplayable Eden Hazard when injuries had robbed us of half our back line for almost the entire season. When he was eventually sacked we were already virtually through the EL group, and 7th in the league. We had more points after 8 games last year than we have this year and before anyone brings up difficult games, those first 8 includes Spurs, Liverpool and United.

Some people have got a pre-meditated agenda - a blurred and biased vision of the past, where Emery was clueless and Arteta is 'one of our own' and some sort of super coach. I hear all sorts of mitigating circumstances mentioned for one and not the other.

Arteta has a tough job - of that there is no doubt. I personally would still give him the rest of this season, despite the fact that in my opinion our performances are worse than they were under Emery. He has earned that in my view. But if you kid yourself that we've somehow progressed massively then we haven't. Its a different type of football - one that produces stronger performances against the top six generally.......but a league season is based over 38 games, and I'm afraid that whilst our performances against 5 or 6 clubs are better.......against 13 or 14 they most definitely are not. If people can't see that, then I'm afraid they'd already made their minds up before the evidence that is being played out each week for all to see

Point No.1 - I would go so far as to say that emery was always one step away from being turned against. If we had of signed him direct from seville I think that he would have got more support and leeway, but he came to us from psg where his reputation had been tarnished and he was labelled as a manager that couldnt handle superstars. It is my opinion that SOME players took the piss cos of that, and I would say that MANY fans were waiting for the first signs of that type of trouble to turn against him - the possibility that it was the players that were taking the piss never entered those fans minds cos they had a pre-determined opinion on emery cos of his psg time

Point No.2 - It isnt that arteta is viewed as one of our own, it is because he worked briefly with pep so clearly he must be brilliant The citeeh show is pep's and no-one else's - he might delegate some duties to his coaches, but tactics and team selections and all the important stuff is pep's decisions, but arteta has been allowed build a reputation based on nothing. There are loads of examples of coaches that are good number 2's but that couldnt step up as a manager, but somehow some of our fans believe that this is different

Point No.3 - doesnt that sound awfully like GG's last few seasons at the club where we had turned into a cup team that could beat anyone on their day, but a team that didnt have too many of those days in a season ? GG got sacked for allowing us turn into a mid-table cup team, but now this kind of performance is meant to be a good thing ??

Good points. To build on Point 1 the defeat PSG had to Barcelona was cited as the moment he had supposedly 'lost the dressing room' despite being cheated by a bent ref as so many have done at the hands of the Barcawhores. He won the treble at PSG, something scoffed at as being akin to Celtic winning the treble by those who often in the same breath cite Tuschel as some sort of super hero (despite the fact that lightweight prick didn't manage to achieve it himself)

Point 2 - there is definitely the Pep thing, to which I would say Steve McClaren was often touted by the likes of Fergie and Sven as being one of the world's best coaches at the time but failed spectacularly both as an international and club manager. I agree with what you say, but also think he was liked as a player (certainly respected) while he was here.

Point 3 - that's exactly my comparison. This is like the GG 1993-1995 team - not a prayer of winning the league or even coming close, dropping slowly to midtable playing abysmal football with a midfield of robots.......but send them into battle at OT or one of the European big guns and watch them fight and scrap their way to a 0-0 or 1-0 win. I went to a lot of games and still had a ST during that period, and remember some absolutely awful home games where we barely looked like having a shot on goal, and you'd pray for a moment of Wrighty's genius to make the difference in much the way we now do with Auba. The difference was of course that Graham didn't want to play "Mr Tactical Genius with the contrary view" and stick our best striker on the fucking left wing. The other key difference is that in GG's early days he swept a lot of big time charlies out the door and replaced them with hungry young players - something Arteta has failed to do and if anything is showing signs of going the other way. Emery blooded Martinelli, Saka, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Maitland Niles etc..........name a single new prospect Arteta has played in the team??? The academy has been average for years too so I'm not buying this bullshit that poor Arteta has it any harder in that regard than Emery. The reason Smith Rowe doesn't play is that bang average, expensive old c.unts like Willian are taking preference