Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

I'm not adding any more to that quote tower.

The thing is, as you say, Emery was sacked shortly after the Turd's first game back so we will never know if he would have been fully welcomed back if Dick had stayed. And judging by how all the other loan out deals have gone recently we can't say with any certainty that the Turd would have moved either.

The most salient point imo is that Emery brought him back in.

Absolutely. Emery made the decision to bring him back and play him instead of terminating his contract or putting him on the transfer list. I believe if Emery had not been sacked a day or two later he would have played Xhakatard as much as Arteta has.

[DB10GOONER]

Arteta talking about Xaha...

“After the red card and with the history that he had, he was in a difficult place and we had to try and bring him back where we believe he can be and where he should be – which is being one of the leaders of the team and giving us stability and the presence he can provide to the team and to the club," Arteta said.
“I think since he’s been back he’s been phenomenal; he’s playing really, really well.

This to me is why Arteta is not qualified to be a manager. How he can watch the Xhakatard moron piss passes away and give away stupid dangerous free kicks continuously and then come out with that statement is mind blowing.

[Clummo99]

I'm not adding any more to that quote tower.

The thing is, as you say, Emery was sacked shortly after the Turd's first game back so we will never know if he would have been fully welcomed back if Dick had stayed. And judging by how all the other loan out deals have gone recently we can't say with any certainty that the Turd would have moved either.

The most salient point imo is that Emery brought him back in.

Absolutely. Emery made the decision to bring him back and play him instead of terminating his contract or putting him on the transfer list. I believe if Emery had not been sacked a day or two later he would have played Xhakatard as much as Arteta has.

I totally agree. My gut instinct is that Emery would have played Xhaka more had both of them stayed at the time.

[SteveO 35]

Emery restored Xhakatard. It's a myth he was getting rid of him. We've been through this myth a million times. Emery brought him back.

Before anyone tries to twist that - yes Arteta is an idiot as well for continuing with the donkey cùnt.... but it was Emery brought him back in.

Emery had six games after the Swiss Mong got subbed against Palace and told us all to fuck off

Xhaka didn't play in any of the first five after that and eventually got a run out in the Thursday Night Cup, and was sacked a day later

If that's your idea of 'restored' i.e. played for one game in the reserve/kids cup having previously been captain, then you're just proving some silly point of being anti-Emery. Bit different to Arteta going on about his phenomenal form and having him as a virtual ever present

It is my idea of restored. Absolutely. I can't see how anyone can claim different.

Xhakatard didn't play in those first five games because Emery claimed poor little Granit was "upset".

Here's the crux of the question: did Xhakatard get selected to play by Emery and then play under Emery at a time after the "fuck off" debacle when any right thinking Arsenal fan wanted the prick gone from the club? Yes he did.

My point was you said Emery didn't bring Xhakatard back. You said Arteta did. The truth however is that Emery brought him back. There is no way round that. The truth is always the truth.

I also don't think we can dismiss Emerys decision to bring Xhakatard back for that game as a one off. To play that one game means that Emery "restored" Xhakatard or "brought him back" effectively maybe a week before that game. He would have trained with the first team, he would have attended meetings on formation and tactics etc.

It wasn't a case of Emery just told him on the day "you are playing tonight because I'm stuck". Emery said himself he had numerous conversations with Xhakatard about what happened after the night he told us all to fuck off.

That showed weakness by Emery. We are not talking about a manager reconciling a player after a dodgy night out at a night club or something. We are talking about a manager bringing back a player who told the clubs fans to fuck off.

I really don't know what your obsession with Emery is mate. It's getting like your previous obsession on here with Diaby.

And to say I'm trying to make some "silly" point of being anti-Emery is insulting tbh. Why would I do that? I liked the man from the minute he walked in wearing the club tie. I've never stated anything against the man apart from my strong belief he wasn't up to the job. He wasn't. It's a pity, absolutely, but it is the truth. I'm not sure why you seem to take that so personally.

We will have to agree to disagree on the restored point. On the basis of your argument as soon as Arteta picks a player for the League Cup or Europa League next season (or this season in the EL) - be it Mustafi, Willock, Chambers etc - you're saying they've been restored.....even if they don't play another PL game for the rest of the season? You know there's a massive difference between a player playing the odd game in the lesser competitions and being the first name on the team sheet for PL games. You know it, but for some inexplicable reason you can't bring yourself to admit it. That bloke who told the fans to "fuck off" has actually been "restored" as captain on occasion this season - but that's ok is it under this manager?? Time to wipe the slate clean, pretend it never happened, fresh start bullshit etc

There's no obsession with Emery - I don't know how many times I have to say that he made grave mistakes, and that he wasn't even in my shortlist of managers to take the AFC job at the time. The "obsession" if you want to call it that, is correcting the bullshit I continually read on numerous forums including this one that poor old Mikel has had it so much harder and is doing a brilliant job in comparison.....and that suddenly everything is on Edu, Kroenke etc, when previously it was all down to the manager who had allegedly "lost the dressing room".

And don't even bring Abou in to it.......I think we all know its gone tits up since he left

[gooner265]

Don't forget he also brought ozil back when he was struggling so he has form but let's leave it there , I also liked emery and really wanted him to succeed but he went downhill very quickly after a successful first season IMO and believe that was due to some poor decisions that lost the players and made him weak e.g. Ozil and the captaincy vote.

For the record if it wasn't for his injury Diaby could have been top , top class

[SteveO 35]

Don't forget he also brought ozil back when he was struggling so he has form but let's leave it there , I also liked emery and really wanted him to succeed but he went downhill very quickly after a successful first season IMO and believe that was due to some poor decisions that lost the players and made him weak e.g. Ozil and the captaincy vote.

For the record if it wasn't for his injury Diaby could have been top , top class

Amen brother, amen

[DB10GOONER]

Emery restored Xhakatard. It's a myth he was getting rid of him. We've been through this myth a million times. Emery brought him back.

Before anyone tries to twist that - yes Arteta is an idiot as well for continuing with the donkey cùnt.... but it was Emery brought him back in.

Emery had six games after the Swiss Mong got subbed against Palace and told us all to fuck off

Xhaka didn't play in any of the first five after that and eventually got a run out in the Thursday Night Cup, and was sacked a day later

If that's your idea of 'restored' i.e. played for one game in the reserve/kids cup having previously been captain, then you're just proving some silly point of being anti-Emery. Bit different to Arteta going on about his phenomenal form and having him as a virtual ever present

It is my idea of restored. Absolutely. I can't see how anyone can claim different.

Xhakatard didn't play in those first five games because Emery claimed poor little Granit was "upset".

Here's the crux of the question: did Xhakatard get selected to play by Emery and then play under Emery at a time after the "fuck off" debacle when any right thinking Arsenal fan wanted the prick gone from the club? Yes he did.

My point was you said Emery didn't bring Xhakatard back. You said Arteta did. The truth however is that Emery brought him back. There is no way round that. The truth is always the truth.

I also don't think we can dismiss Emerys decision to bring Xhakatard back for that game as a one off. To play that one game means that Emery "restored" Xhakatard or "brought him back" effectively maybe a week before that game. He would have trained with the first team, he would have attended meetings on formation and tactics etc.

It wasn't a case of Emery just told him on the day "you are playing tonight because I'm stuck". Emery said himself he had numerous conversations with Xhakatard about what happened after the night he told us all to fuck off.

That showed weakness by Emery. We are not talking about a manager reconciling a player after a dodgy night out at a night club or something. We are talking about a manager bringing back a player who told the clubs fans to fuck off.

I really don't know what your obsession with Emery is mate. It's getting like your previous obsession on here with Diaby.

And to say I'm trying to make some "silly" point of being anti-Emery is insulting tbh. Why would I do that? I liked the man from the minute he walked in wearing the club tie. I've never stated anything against the man apart from my strong belief he wasn't up to the job. He wasn't. It's a pity, absolutely, but it is the truth. I'm not sure why you seem to take that so personally.

We will have to agree to disagree on the restored point. On the basis of your argument as soon as Arteta picks a player for the League Cup or Europa League next season (or this season in the EL) - be it Mustafi, Willock, Chambers etc - you're saying they've been restored.....even if they don't play another PL game for the rest of the season? You know there's a massive difference between a player playing the odd game in the lesser competitions and being the first name on the team sheet for PL games. You know it, but for some inexplicable reason you can't bring yourself to admit it. That bloke who told the fans to "fuck off" has actually been "restored" as captain on occasion this season - but that's ok is it under this manager?? Time to wipe the slate clean, pretend it never happened, fresh start bullshit etc

There's no obsession with Emery - I don't know how many times I have to say that he made grave mistakes, and that he wasn't even in my shortlist of managers to take the AFC job at the time. The "obsession" if you want to call it that, is correcting the bullshit I continually read on numerous forums including this one that poor old Mikel has had it so much harder and is doing a brilliant job in comparison.....and that suddenly everything is on Edu, Kroenke etc, when previously it was all down to the manager who had allegedly "lost the dressing room".

And don't even bring Abou in to it.......I think we all know its gone tits up since he left

Poor old Abou.

Yep we'll have to agree to disagree mate.

Just the bit in red though. None of those players listed told the fans to fuck off so being squad players they have every right to be picked and the manager has every right to pick them no matter how good or bad they are. I dont think that comes under the "restored" category.

Xhakatard is completely different, he told us all to fuck off and should never have worn the Jersey again. Emery picked him though. The game he picked him for is immaterial.

The crux of the issue is he picked a player that should have been run out of the club. I also absolutely 100% believe he (like Arteta) would have continued to pick Xhakatard had he not been sacked - but of course that's not provable at this point.

As for Arteta you've obviously not been reading my posts (can't blame you there!) because I've poured scorn on Arteta for picking Xhakatard and worse for making the cùnt captain on occasion. I've said before, that one act, even more than his inexperience, says to me that Arteta is not fit to manage the team.

We've had a nice little upturn in results lately but I still believe Arteta is not the right man for this job. I'd love to be proven wrong on that but I have this sinking feeling I won't be.....

[rodders999]

For the record if it wasn't for his injury Diaby could have been top , top class

Which fucking one?

[SteveO 35]

Nice to see the conversation come back to Abou - its been way too long.

Imagine having old twinkle toes alongside Partey and supplying the young guns up front........if I close my eyes long enough !

[GoonerMuzz]

Nice to see the conversation come back to Abou - its been way too long.

Imagine having old twinkle toes alongside Partey and supplying the young guns up front........if I close my eyes long enough !

Christ SteveO that would have been something to see, all those through balls all the way from the Colney physio's table

[mcdowell42]

Edu was the one who first brought Willian's name to the table, Arteta gave the green light. Edu might offer the defense that Arteta wanted Willian, but at the time negotiations began, Mikel was head coach, not manager. (1/2) [@TheAthleticUK]

https://t.co/AvoBRO4pdj

[augie]

Edu was the one who first brought Willian's name to the table, Arteta gave the green light. Edu might offer the defense that Arteta wanted Willian, but at the time negotiations began, Mikel was head coach, not manager. (1/2) [@TheAthleticUK]

https://t.co/AvoBRO4pdj

This is one of those illusionary things isnt it ? Throw terms around like head coach or manager in the hope that it distracts fans from the reality. I'm not doubting that edu bought (and maybe even suggested) willian, but no player is bought by a club without being approved by the manager (unless it is a young player being bought for the academy, or unless it is a player from a foreign league that the manager might know fcuk all about), so arteta is 100% complicit in willian's signing despite crafty moves by his people to distance him from what has been a shit signing

[GoonerMuzz]

Edu was the one who first brought Willian's name to the table, Arteta gave the green light. Edu might offer the defense that Arteta wanted Willian, but at the time negotiations began, Mikel was head coach, not manager. (1/2) [@TheAthleticUK]

https://t.co/AvoBRO4pdj

This is one of those illusionary things isnt it ? Throw terms around like head coach or manager in the hope that it distracts fans from the reality. I'm not doubting that edu bought (and maybe even suggested) willian, but no player is bought by a club without being approved by the manager (unless it is a young player being bought for the academy, or unless it is a player from a foreign league that the manager might know fcuk all about), so arteta is 100% complicit in willian's signing despite crafty moves by his people to distance him from what has been a shit signing

I'm loathe to defend Arteta, Augie and if we were discussing just about any other club in world football i would 100% agree but at Arsenal in its current guise i'm not so sure. For some reason i don't like Edu and i feel that he is a backroom master manipulator who loves to be in control so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a ' your getting my mate Kai's player Willian, take it or leave it' sort of deal.

Admittedly I have no evidence for it but some of the things that have happened since Edu arrived at the club have stuck in my throat for some reason and he seems other than the owners to be the one constant in them......

[augie]

Edu was the one who first brought Willian's name to the table, Arteta gave the green light. Edu might offer the defense that Arteta wanted Willian, but at the time negotiations began, Mikel was head coach, not manager. (1/2) [@TheAthleticUK]

https://t.co/AvoBRO4pdj

This is one of those illusionary things isnt it ? Throw terms around like head coach or manager in the hope that it distracts fans from the reality. I'm not doubting that edu bought (and maybe even suggested) willian, but no player is bought by a club without being approved by the manager (unless it is a young player being bought for the academy, or unless it is a player from a foreign league that the manager might know fcuk all about), so arteta is 100% complicit in willian's signing despite crafty moves by his people to distance him from what has been a shit signing

I'm loathe to defend Arteta, Augie and if we were discussing just about any other club in world football i would 100% agree but at Arsenal in its current guise i'm not so sure. For some reason i don't like Edu and i feel that he is a backroom master manipulator who loves to be in control so it wouldn't surprise me if it was a ' your getting my mate Kai's player Willian, take it or leave it' sort of deal.

Admittedly I have no evidence for it but some of the things that have happened since Edu arrived at the club have stuck in my throat for some reason and he seems other than the owners to be the one constant in them......

And I understand that buddy, but where this finger pointing at edu falls down, is that it is arteta that has continued to pick him week after week (until recently) no matter how shit he has been. Arteta did not want to go with young players and willian was proof of that imo, and he is now reaping the rewards and getting the praise, for selecting players that he only picked cos he had no option

[GoonerMuzz]

I'm not going to disagree about Arteta picking Willian but I will point out my comment was about his hierarchy and that Edu as director of Footall would have had no small part in Arteta's appointment and backing him when things were going terribly recently. Also bear in mind that Edu was in charge when Sven Misintlat suddenly left, oversaw the removal of the scouting network, allowed Raul Sanhelli and Huss Fahmy to carry out whatever shady dealings were going, seems to have been involved in a number of transfer deals involving his own agent etc.

Arteta is in the wrong job at the wrong time and can rightly be criticised for onfield performance but a lot of the decisions off field I'm not so sure about