Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

The point remains that whilst the Invincibles will probably never be repeated, the continuous decline under Kroenke is the issue......and we as fans have a duty not to settle for that

Its not about being spoiled, or a modern day fan. It doesn't matter if you're 70 or 17 - this club was a CL club when Kroenke took over. It then slipped to a EL club, and has barely clung to that status on the back of an FA Cup win rather than its league placing

If we're saying Arteta can have a little hit at the cups and its ok to be 8th, then words fail me.


Leicester, Everton and Spurs to name three, shouldn't have been given the opportunity to overtake us.......but they have. Everton less so, but the other two have been consistently better than us for most of the past 3-4 years. That I find unacceptable and the last 3 managerial appointments are a major factor in making that happen

[gooner265]

I do feel whatever good Arteta does this year he will get zero credit on here because he never had a chance when the board appointed him.
Agreed he was forced into picking ESR and has turned his fortunes, but he turned our defence around initially . We currently have the second best defensive record behind City in the league despite having some poor Centre backs and Partey not playingto protect them, Mari and Holding are looking much better. His problems then were on the creative side which we are starting to address and the addition of Odegaard may be very astute.

He is a rookie, he will make mistakes but if he goes on to be a great manager as some say I hope that's with us and will accept the downs along with the ups along the way.

An experienced manager is no guarantee of success, most of the deadwood has been shifted and I'm hoping he's learned his lesson with Willian . Buy young players and build for the future.

[SteveO 35]

I do feel whatever good Arteta does this year he will get zero credit on here because he never had a chance when the board appointed him.
Agreed he was forced into picking ESR and has turned his fortunes, but he turned our defence around initially . We currently have the second best defensive record behind City in the league despite having some poor Centre backs and Partey not playingto protect them, Mari and Holding are looking much better. His problems then were on the creative side which we are starting to address and the addition of Odegaard may be very astute.

He is a rookie, he will make mistakes but if he goes on to be a great manager as some say I hope that's with us and will accept the downs along with the ups along the way.

An experienced manager is no guarantee of success, most of the deadwood has been shifted and I'm hoping he's learned his lesson with Willian . Buy young players and build for the future.

From my side, he will get credit when and where credit is due. When the deadwood is rolled out, when we don't have a total squad imbalance in certain positions, when under performing players like Bellerin, Xhaka, Nketiah, Willian, Pepe etc are dead men walking and when our league results elevate us up to above where we were when he took the job on.

I will always hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong. If he improves on what went before, he will get all of that credit. After all.....you don't make a change to go backwards right?

The Arsenal job is not an easy one. He did well to win the FA Cup, but didn't improve our league position and went out pathetically to Olympiacos in last season's EL. I gave him a lot of credit for that cup win as the teams we beat were tough, and our tactical shape was excellent in those games. However, the league football was sterile, boring and the likes of which I haven't seen for the past 25 years of watching Arsenal

When the kids play the signs are all there. He has others too in Balogun and Azeez, and some decent lads out on loan. If he's brave enough to trust them and ditch the blokes who dragged us to our worst start in 45 years he could make it. If he doesn't, that's entirely down to him

[GoonerMuzz]

I'll agree to disagree on some of this but my main point is that our squad is woeful currently, when I look at our full squad I struggle to put together a balanced first 11 and 6 substitutes which I think can take on any team out there, we are deficient in a lot of positions where if we got an injury to the 'starter' we would have an automatic good replacement who can fill that role.

I'm not trying to compare us to other squads I'm talking about us, take for example LB, Tierney has been excellent and against Soton Cedric did fairly well filling in for him but it left us with Greenpeace at RB who was crap again, the options to replace Bellerin then become AMN or Calum Chambers neither of whom inspire confidence. CM is another issue, ESR went off and Partey got cramp so went off leaving Willian and Elneny to come on alongside Xhaka!!! CB we had Sideshow because Mari is injured and Gabriel was unavailable to start, the backup options again were limited.

Seriously for those saying Artetas substitutions are poor when you look at the options, I mean really look at them you begin to realise as shit as he is and as baffling as his decisions are at times the replacements he has available are utter dogshit in the main. I was looking forward to Martinelli coming on midweek and as with everyone I was pissed off when he brought Willian on instead but when I thought about it and the other substitutions he had to make later his choices were limited due to circumstances.... I hate defending the fucker but I realised that when circumstances are forced on him his actual real game changing options are non-existent with this squad, embarrassingly so considering the resources we should have.

This brings me back to my point about the end of the season, were we to finish top 6 and get to the latter stages of the Europa league considering our current squad depth and novice manager whether we like it or not and as we stand currently it wouldn't actually be a bad season.

[SteveO 35]

I'll agree to disagree on some of this but my main point is that our squad is woeful currently, when I look at our full squad I struggle to put together a balanced first 11 and 6 substitutes which I think can take on any team out there, we are deficient in a lot of positions where if we got an injury to the 'starter' we would have an automatic good replacement who can fill that role.

I'm not trying to compare us to other squads I'm talking about us, take for example LB, Tierney has been excellent and against Soton Cedric did fairly well filling in for him but it left us with Greenpeace at RB who was crap again, the options to replace Bellerin then become AMN or Calum Chambers neither of whom inspire confidence. CM is another issue, ESR went off and Partey got cramp so went off leaving Willian and Elneny to come on alongside Xhaka!!! CB we had Sideshow because Mari is injured and Gabriel was unavailable to start, the backup options again were limited.

Seriously for those saying Artetas substitutions are poor when you look at the options, I mean really look at them you begin to realise as shit as he is and as baffling as his decisions are at times the replacements he has available are utter dogshit in the main. I was looking forward to Martinelli coming on midweek and as with everyone I was pissed off when he brought Willian on instead but when I thought about it and the other substitutions he had to make later his choices were limited due to circumstances.... I hate defending the fucker but I realised that when circumstances are forced on him his actual real game changing options are non-existent with this squad, embarrassingly so considering the resources we should have.

This brings me back to my point about the end of the season, were we to finish top 6 and get to the latter stages of the Europa league considering our current squad depth and novice manager whether we like it or not and as we stand currently it wouldn't actually be a bad season.

None of what you've written is wrong mate, but the question for me is who to blame for the squad being what it is. Starting the season with Ballerina at RB and those shit reserve options, yet having 9 specialist centre halves. Re-signing Ceballos, to plod alongside Xhaka and Elneny and not having a single 'no 10'. Signing Willian as the supposed star signing of the window. Letting Martinez go and having a total helmet as a replacement back up GK.

I don't know the answer, but is it all on Edu and the negotiating team, or partially down to the manager too? A total novice could see that this squad started the season all over the place with gaping great holes. Whoever is responsible for that deserves some serious stick

[SteveO 35]

Looking ahead to February, and this for me is the most decisive month in his career to date.

However, you look at the recent mini revival, we are 10th. If Saints and Leeds were to win their game in hand each, we'd be 12th and we're now more than halfway through the league season. The two domestic cups have gone, but the EL resumes and is our only chance of getting anywhere near a trophy.

For me, any talk of the top four is absolutely fanciful. I'm expecting Liverpool to take care of West Ham later and if they do, there's an 8 point gap to Leicester. Below them the Scum c.unts look a prime bet for the EL spots and then its wide open the rest of them.

I think sacrificing the FA Cup will prove to be a horrendous mistake as we are proving that 3 or 4 players out of the side and we are a mid table side at best. I can't see European qualification through the league - we didn't make it last season that way, and we've further adrift at this stage than we were then.

How anyone could say the EL isn't important is just beyond my comprehension. We haven't won a European trophy in 27 years and we haven't been in the CL for a few seasons now either. If winning that isn't important, I'm not sure football is worth following anymore.

The month of Feburary sees us play Benfica twice in that all important cup, whilst in the league there are no easy pickings at all with Wolves (a), Villa (a), Leeds (h), Man City (h) and Leicester (a).

I have a feeling those defending the resting of the players in the FA Cup will have a very different perspective when we get to the end of February.

[GoonerMuzz]

Again i can't disagree with any of that SteveO and going back to the poor squad this has been ongoing for a number of years, as an example neither Wenger or Emery strengthened the No 10 position and relied on a constantly out of form Ozil. The too many CBs issue again has been a gathering storm from before Arteta's time and has been exacerbated by having a glut of players who Arsenal seem to have valued far above what was being offered.

Again i'm not defending Arteta and i think a stronger more experienced manager may have been able to resolve some of these issues but Emery didn't manage it either and the less said about Wenger the better.

[Nos89]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

[SteveO 35]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

Or we can look at the fact that the transfer window has passed - we have absolutely zero cover at left back, so had to play our reserve right back there for the third game in a row. We can also look at the fact that our first choice right back is a clown - and has been for years (something that neither of the last 3 managers have addressed). We don't have a single world class centre half - just has beens, never will be's, bang average Joe's and one with potential like Gabriel. We have 3 absolute goons in Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos......and for the record Arteta decided to bring all three back into his plans when options were there to have none. We still are painfully short of options to cover Lacazette

Last night's game means that if Southampton won their game in hand, and Leeds only one of their two, we are back in the bottom half of the table......2 points above Crystal Palace in Feburary

I'm afraid I see very few positives. The squad is still full of holes, this manager hasn't addressed the fundamentals, and we are a bang average (at best) mid table team that have spunked both domestic cups up the wall in shambolic fashion

Sorry lads, I see no positives at all. This is The Arsenal FFS - an elite club, in Europe's biggest city, with a mega rich owner, and a proud history. No other club at our level would hire a manager with zero experience. Chavski took a punt on a guy who only had 1 year's managerial experience and he's gone

It seems everyone here has allowed Kroenke to lower their own standards. It's ok to have a novice who makes mistakes on the job because he needs time to learn. We sound like fucking Derby County FFS........this is the Arsenal !

A terrible, terrible appointment - one doomed to failure from the start and I'm afraid you can dress it up however you want about a recent mini revival or what a heroic transfer window this has been (really????).......but have a look at the league table and the other competitions. We are back to the lowest spot since GG's final season over 25 years ago......slap bang in the middle of the table, and for my money no prospect of improving upon that any time soon

Depressing in the extreme

[DB10GOONER]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

Or we can look at the fact that the transfer window has passed - we have absolutely zero cover at left back, so had to play our reserve right back there for the third game in a row. We can also look at the fact that our first choice right back is a clown - and has been for years (something that neither of the last 3 managers have addressed). We don't have a single world class centre half - just has beens, never will be's, bang average Joe's and one with potential like Gabriel. We have 3 absolute goons in Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos......and for the record Arteta decided to bring all three back into his plans when options were there to have none. We still are painfully short of options to cover Lacazette

Last night's game means that if Southampton won their game in hand, and Leeds only one of their two, we are back in the bottom half of the table......2 points above Crystal Palace in Feburary

I'm afraid I see very few positives. The squad is still full of holes, this manager hasn't addressed the fundamentals, and we are a bang average (at best) mid table team that have spunked both domestic cups up the wall in shambolic fashion

Sorry lads, I see no positives at all. This is The Arsenal FFS - an elite club, in Europe's biggest city, with a mega rich owner, and a proud history. No other club at our level would hire a manager with zero experience. Chavski took a punt on a guy who only had 1 year's managerial experience and he's gone

It seems everyone here has allowed Kroenke to lower their own standards. It's ok to have a novice who makes mistakes on the job because he needs time to learn. We sound like fucking Derby County FFS........this is the Arsenal !

A terrible, terrible appointment - one doomed to failure from the start and I'm afraid you can dress it up however you want about a recent mini revival or what a heroic transfer window this has been (really????).......but have a look at the league table and the other competitions. We are back to the lowest spot since GG's final season over 25 years ago......slap bang in the middle of the table, and for my money no prospect of improving upon that any time soon

Depressing in the extreme

I have absolutely no idea where you got the bit in red from.... if you can name 5 posters on here that fall into that category I will have roddaz post you an autographed sock.

[SteveO 35]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

Or we can look at the fact that the transfer window has passed - we have absolutely zero cover at left back, so had to play our reserve right back there for the third game in a row. We can also look at the fact that our first choice right back is a clown - and has been for years (something that neither of the last 3 managers have addressed). We don't have a single world class centre half - just has beens, never will be's, bang average Joe's and one with potential like Gabriel. We have 3 absolute goons in Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos......and for the record Arteta decided to bring all three back into his plans when options were there to have none. We still are painfully short of options to cover Lacazette

Last night's game means that if Southampton won their game in hand, and Leeds only one of their two, we are back in the bottom half of the table......2 points above Crystal Palace in Feburary

I'm afraid I see very few positives. The squad is still full of holes, this manager hasn't addressed the fundamentals, and we are a bang average (at best) mid table team that have spunked both domestic cups up the wall in shambolic fashion

Sorry lads, I see no positives at all. This is The Arsenal FFS - an elite club, in Europe's biggest city, with a mega rich owner, and a proud history. No other club at our level would hire a manager with zero experience. Chavski took a punt on a guy who only had 1 year's managerial experience and he's gone

It seems everyone here has allowed Kroenke to lower their own standards. It's ok to have a novice who makes mistakes on the job because he needs time to learn. We sound like fucking Derby County FFS........this is the Arsenal !

A terrible, terrible appointment - one doomed to failure from the start and I'm afraid you can dress it up however you want about a recent mini revival or what a heroic transfer window this has been (really????).......but have a look at the league table and the other competitions. We are back to the lowest spot since GG's final season over 25 years ago......slap bang in the middle of the table, and for my money no prospect of improving upon that any time soon

Depressing in the extreme

I have absolutely no idea where you got the bit in red from.... if you can name 5 posters on here that fall into that category I will have roddaz post you an autographed sock.

Start with the one quoted for starters!

[DB10GOONER]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

Or we can look at the fact that the transfer window has passed - we have absolutely zero cover at left back, so had to play our reserve right back there for the third game in a row. We can also look at the fact that our first choice right back is a clown - and has been for years (something that neither of the last 3 managers have addressed). We don't have a single world class centre half - just has beens, never will be's, bang average Joe's and one with potential like Gabriel. We have 3 absolute goons in Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos......and for the record Arteta decided to bring all three back into his plans when options were there to have none. We still are painfully short of options to cover Lacazette

Last night's game means that if Southampton won their game in hand, and Leeds only one of their two, we are back in the bottom half of the table......2 points above Crystal Palace in Feburary

I'm afraid I see very few positives. The squad is still full of holes, this manager hasn't addressed the fundamentals, and we are a bang average (at best) mid table team that have spunked both domestic cups up the wall in shambolic fashion

Sorry lads, I see no positives at all. This is The Arsenal FFS - an elite club, in Europe's biggest city, with a mega rich owner, and a proud history. No other club at our level would hire a manager with zero experience. Chavski took a punt on a guy who only had 1 year's managerial experience and he's gone

It seems everyone here has allowed Kroenke to lower their own standards. It's ok to have a novice who makes mistakes on the job because he needs time to learn. We sound like fucking Derby County FFS........this is the Arsenal !

A terrible, terrible appointment - one doomed to failure from the start and I'm afraid you can dress it up however you want about a recent mini revival or what a heroic transfer window this has been (really????).......but have a look at the league table and the other competitions. We are back to the lowest spot since GG's final season over 25 years ago......slap bang in the middle of the table, and for my money no prospect of improving upon that any time soon

Depressing in the extreme

I have absolutely no idea where you got the bit in red from.... if you can name 5 posters on here that fall into that category I will have roddaz post you an autographed sock.

Start with the one quoted for starters!

Ok that's one. Four more SteveO....

[augie]

I think that what steve o is saying is that nowadays we celebrate small things that should be expected at big clubs like ours - for example we have all (me included) been really boastful about our recent run of form, but when you look at it closely we have beaten brighton, baggies, geordies and a struggling chavs team, so this run of form should be taken in the context of who we beat. Beating 3 teams fighting relegation would have been seen as a given in years gone by - these days those results pushing us into the top half (barely) is seen/portrayed as an indicator that we are on the way back

[DB10GOONER]

I think that what steve o is saying is that nowadays we celebrate small things that should be expected at big clubs like ours - for example we have all (me included) been really boastful about our recent run of form, but when you look at it closely we have beaten brighton, baggies, geordies and a struggling chavs team, so this run of form should be taken in the context of who we beat. Beating 3 teams fighting relegation would have been seen as a given in years gone by - these days those results pushing us into the top half (barely) is seen/portrayed as an indicator that we are on the way back

Nope. I'm just questioning a catch-all statement like "everyone on here.....".

[SteveO 35]

Between Edu and Arteta they have absolutely done us a favour in the last two windows by getting rid of players who just weren't serving the club well. The key was getting rid of ozil. As soon as he left, so did his followers at the club.
Loan deals for AMN, Willock, Saliba and Guendouzi will either make them better players for us, or gain some value whilst the market is dead during the pandemic. Minutes on the pitch normally increases a young players value.
The squad has been significantly trimmed down and the players brought in on loan, appear to have strengthened our squad options. Ryan is an established premier league goalie, unlike Macey and Runnarson, and Odegaard appears to be an upgrade on Ozil and willock in the no.10 role, giving back up to ESR, who is injury prone and has only broken into first team this season.
With only the league and the Europa League to occupy Arteta, we will get a proper look at what he can do with the players at the club he wants to work with. Starting with wolves tomorrow night, and a win takes us up to 6th, within touching distance of the top 4. A position which seemed unreachable in mid-december.

Or we can look at the fact that the transfer window has passed - we have absolutely zero cover at left back, so had to play our reserve right back there for the third game in a row. We can also look at the fact that our first choice right back is a clown - and has been for years (something that neither of the last 3 managers have addressed). We don't have a single world class centre half - just has beens, never will be's, bang average Joe's and one with potential like Gabriel. We have 3 absolute goons in Xhaka, Elneny and Ceballos......and for the record Arteta decided to bring all three back into his plans when options were there to have none. We still are painfully short of options to cover Lacazette

Last night's game means that if Southampton won their game in hand, and Leeds only one of their two, we are back in the bottom half of the table......2 points above Crystal Palace in Feburary

I'm afraid I see very few positives. The squad is still full of holes, this manager hasn't addressed the fundamentals, and we are a bang average (at best) mid table team that have spunked both domestic cups up the wall in shambolic fashion

Sorry lads, I see no positives at all. This is The Arsenal FFS - an elite club, in Europe's biggest city, with a mega rich owner, and a proud history. No other club at our level would hire a manager with zero experience. Chavski took a punt on a guy who only had 1 year's managerial experience and he's gone

It seems everyone here has allowed Kroenke to lower their own standards. It's ok to have a novice who makes mistakes on the job because he needs time to learn. We sound like fucking Derby County FFS........this is the Arsenal !

A terrible, terrible appointment - one doomed to failure from the start and I'm afraid you can dress it up however you want about a recent mini revival or what a heroic transfer window this has been (really????).......but have a look at the league table and the other competitions. We are back to the lowest spot since GG's final season over 25 years ago......slap bang in the middle of the table, and for my money no prospect of improving upon that any time soon

Depressing in the extreme

I have absolutely no idea where you got the bit in red from.... if you can name 5 posters on here that fall into that category I will have roddaz post you an autographed sock.

Start with the one quoted for starters!

Ok that's one. Four more SteveO....

I'll only upset them mate, and you know me.......always keen to steer away from conflict

I think people need to just accept that some of us have a different perspective - not the popular opinion that Emery was absolute useless and that what we have now is a much better option. If you have that opinion, that's fine. Just don't distort facts to suit that view.

I know that the populist cult tries to have all of us believe that the previous manager was a spineless clown......all the players he signed that worked out well were down to Mislintat's genius......all the players he signed that didn't work out were all his own stupid fault. The 22 game unbeaten run was lucky and should be airbrushed from history and not down to any managerial strength, but all the losses were entirely down to him. Finishing 5th was pathetic because we should have finished 4th, whilst finishing 8th on the last day, when before that we were 10th is fine. Losing in a Europa League final is shameful, but going out in the round of 32 to Olympiacos didn't matter too much.

People may say I defend Emery too much. I never wanted him to start with but I felt whoever took on the job after Lord Wenger deserved at least 2 years to turn things round. He didn't even get half the second season or the next transfer windows to frankly do what Arteta has been catching up with now. It was a big turnaround project - still is. "He didn't get sacked for finishing 5th SteveO, he got sacked when we were on a bad run" - yeah a bad run that saw us win our EL Group and not drop below 8th. Seem to remember a far worse run taking us down to 15th, but that didn't matter either. Not his fault at all - all down to Edu and Kroenke.

Both managers made grave mistakes - the captaincy vote was an absolute joke. Not having a proper RB. Playing Mustafi against Palace in that fateful game that we lost. Playing Ozil when his heart wasn't in it. There's more too. Show me a manager who hasn't made them?

I'm just not having it that we have to accept our fate because we have a 'young manager'. There's only a handful of younger PL managers in history and how many worked out from this stellar list - Lombardo, Coleman, Vialli, Villas-Boas, Gullit, Kevin MacDonald, Alex Neil, Stuart Pearce, Paul Jewell, Gary Monk, Jan Siewart.

This is why I said the project is doomed to failure - abort it now. Big clubs that are on the downer need big experience. He hasn't got it and its not his fault.......but nor does it buy him any more time, excuses or mitigation than the previous manager.

He's a nice bloke. A good bloke who undoubtedly gives his all for the club. I liked him as a player before he joined Arsenal, and was delighted when we signed him......but I'm afraid he should be doing better than what he is today. The owner is the same as before, the clowns who run the club have changed but are as equally inept as when Emery joined. The Academy hasn't changed a whole lot. No excuses, same job, same circumstances.......so why not the same standards?