Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

Lets be honest - the only team we've beaten that we might not necessarily expect to beat was the vermin scum on Sunday......and with their dismal record at our gaff (2 wins in 29 games) even that's a questionable notion. West Brom's reserves, Norwich, Burnley and AFC Wimbledon - hardly a list to set the pulse racing and in the case of Norwich and Burnley highly unconvincing wins

Lets not carried away. If the manager is going to win more of us over, he needs to prove a number of things. Firstly for me is that he's man enough to knock a few experienced ones on the head consistently - that means Leno and Xhaka not returning if the likes of Ramsdale and Sambi are playing well. Secondly he needs to keep a settled back line, and without European football if that means no opportunities for Cedric, Chambers, Holding etc then so be it. He needs to consistently get us scoring from open play. When we were 3-0 up at the weekend the commentators mentioned how Sperz had only scored 1 goal from open play......and I thought 'hold on a minute, so had we up until today!'

There's a long, long way to go to convince me. The first 45 minutes on Saturday were as good as anything we've produced under him, and we played "ok" in patches against Burnley and Norwich. When we're going on 10-15 game unbeaten runs, scoring goals and playing with a settled style and pattern I will start to believe........there's a good way to go yet!

Credit for the new signings though - if we're honest we were quick to condemn the likes of Ramsdale and Tomiyasu but so far they haven't put a foot wrong

I expect you'll have a few of our snowflake members say you are just being negative, but personally I think you are right. It's not negativity but rather just being realistic.

Graham Sourness got slaughtered for saying the scum were poor, and as good as we were against them, there is no denying they were quite poor and Nuno Sprite Coca-Cola didn't have a clue what to do.

We are on a nice little run, we are mostly playing well in patches but we have beaten mostly minnows and relegation fodder. We are not a good side yet. We are still fragile and I fear we will get hammered against a top side... just like we did against citeh....

For me Martinez-Lite has to get rid of Clive. We are a much better team without him. He also needs to play Ramsdale and Tommi until they have a complete clanger or two. Forget about upsetting Butter Wrists or anyone else, pick the on form players.

[SteveO 35]

Lets be honest - the only team we've beaten that we might not necessarily expect to beat was the vermin scum on Sunday......and with their dismal record at our gaff (2 wins in 29 games) even that's a questionable notion. West Brom's reserves, Norwich, Burnley and AFC Wimbledon - hardly a list to set the pulse racing and in the case of Norwich and Burnley highly unconvincing wins

Lets not carried away. If the manager is going to win more of us over, he needs to prove a number of things. Firstly for me is that he's man enough to knock a few experienced ones on the head consistently - that means Leno and Xhaka not returning if the likes of Ramsdale and Sambi are playing well. Secondly he needs to keep a settled back line, and without European football if that means no opportunities for Cedric, Chambers, Holding etc then so be it. He needs to consistently get us scoring from open play. When we were 3-0 up at the weekend the commentators mentioned how Sperz had only scored 1 goal from open play......and I thought 'hold on a minute, so had we up until today!'

There's a long, long way to go to convince me. The first 45 minutes on Saturday were as good as anything we've produced under him, and we played "ok" in patches against Burnley and Norwich. When we're going on 10-15 game unbeaten runs, scoring goals and playing with a settled style and pattern I will start to believe........there's a good way to go yet!

Credit for the new signings though - if we're honest we were quick to condemn the likes of Ramsdale and Tomiyasu but so far they haven't put a foot wrong

I expect you'll have a few of our snowflake members say you are just being negative, but personally I think you are right. It's not negativity but rather just being realistic.

Graham Sourness got slaughtered for saying the scum were poor, and as good as we were against them, there is no denying they were quite poor and Nuno Sprite Coca-Cola didn't have a clue what to do.

We are on a nice little run, we are mostly playing well in patches but we have beaten mostly minnows and relegation fodder. We are not a good side yet. We are still fragile and I fear we will get hammered against a top side... just like we did against citeh....

For me Martinez-Lite has to get rid of Clive. We are a much better team without him. He also needs to play Ramsdale and Tommi until they have a complete clanger or two. Forget about upsetting Butter Wrists or anyone else, pick the on form players.

Yep - and you've known me well enough to know that if I've got it wrong, I'll be the first to say.......but at the moment we're above the team we're ridiculing (rightly so) on goals scored. If someone said 10th after six games I doubt anyone would say that was a fantastic achievement.

Lets see how he goes from here. Clive has to go......that's clear to anyone with half a brain. Butter Wrists has played his best games for this club when he's had a credible challenge to his place as assured number 1 - when Martinez was sold and he had the likes of Runarsson as his challenge he became a complacent cock. If he's able to replicate his early form under challenge from Ramsdale, I'll give him a shot. If he sulks like a c.unt and wants a divine right to be number 1, then he can walk too

[wibble]

Lets be honest - the only team we've beaten that we might not necessarily expect to beat was the vermin scum on Sunday......and with their dismal record at our gaff (2 wins in 29 games) even that's a questionable notion. West Brom's reserves, Norwich, Burnley and AFC Wimbledon - hardly a list to set the pulse racing and in the case of Norwich and Burnley highly unconvincing wins

Lets not carried away. If the manager is going to win more of us over, he needs to prove a number of things. Firstly for me is that he's man enough to knock a few experienced ones on the head consistently - that means Leno and Xhaka not returning if the likes of Ramsdale and Sambi are playing well. Secondly he needs to keep a settled back line, and without European football if that means no opportunities for Cedric, Chambers, Holding etc then so be it. He needs to consistently get us scoring from open play. When we were 3-0 up at the weekend the commentators mentioned how Sperz had only scored 1 goal from open play......and I thought 'hold on a minute, so had we up until today!'

There's a long, long way to go to convince me. The first 45 minutes on Saturday were as good as anything we've produced under him, and we played "ok" in patches against Burnley and Norwich. When we're going on 10-15 game unbeaten runs, scoring goals and playing with a settled style and pattern I will start to believe........there's a good way to go yet!

Credit for the new signings though - if we're honest we were quick to condemn the likes of Ramsdale and Tomiyasu but so far they haven't put a foot wrong

I expect you'll have a few of our snowflake members say you are just being negative, but personally I think you are right. It's not negativity but rather just being realistic.

Graham Sourness got slaughtered for saying the scum were poor, and as good as we were against them, there is no denying they were quite poor and Nuno Sprite Coca-Cola didn't have a clue what to do.

We are on a nice little run, we are mostly playing well in patches but we have beaten mostly minnows and relegation fodder. We are not a good side yet. We are still fragile and I fear we will get hammered against a top side... just like we did against citeh....

For me Martinez-Lite has to get rid of Clive. We are a much better team without him. He also needs to play Ramsdale and Tommi until they have a complete clanger or two. Forget about upsetting Butter Wrists or anyone else, pick the on form players.

Yep - and you've known me well enough to know that if I've got it wrong, I'll be the first to say.......but at the moment we're above the team we're ridiculing (rightly so) on goals scored. If someone said 10th after six games I doubt anyone would say that was a fantastic achievement.

Lets see how he goes from here. Clive has to go......that's clear to anyone with half a brain. Butter Wrists has played his best games for this club when he's had a credible challenge to his place as assured number 1 - when Martinez was sold and he had the likes of Runarsson as his challenge he became a complacent cock. If he's able to replicate his early form under challenge from Ramsdale, I'll give him a shot. If he sulks like a c.unt and wants a divine right to be number 1, then he can walk too

I agree. The win over spurs is great and it was a pleasing performance and hopefully will be the start of some consistently good results and performances.
However the only result so far this season that was unexpected for me was the loss to brentford. Other than than we’ve done exactly as most fans would have predicted.

Due to the fixture list some went mental at the start of the season as we’d lost 3 in a row and spoke of relegation (when in reality we only had 3 points less than predicted). Likewise some are now going over the top as we’ve won 3 in a row when given the opposition, less than 7 points would have been very disappointing.
As I say, we’re pretty much where I’d expect us to be points wise. What is encouraging is that we seem to have a more settled defence with improved personnel and the youngsters who showed promise last season are continuing to excel.

[gooner265]

Lets be honest - the only team we've beaten that we might not necessarily expect to beat was the vermin scum on Sunday......and with their dismal record at our gaff (2 wins in 29 games) even that's a questionable notion. West Brom's reserves, Norwich, Burnley and AFC Wimbledon - hardly a list to set the pulse racing and in the case of Norwich and Burnley highly unconvincing wins

Lets not carried away. If the manager is going to win more of us over, he needs to prove a number of things. Firstly for me is that he's man enough to knock a few experienced ones on the head consistently - that means Leno and Xhaka not returning if the likes of Ramsdale and Sambi are playing well. Secondly he needs to keep a settled back line, and without European football if that means no opportunities for Cedric, Chambers, Holding etc then so be it. He needs to consistently get us scoring from open play. When we were 3-0 up at the weekend the commentators mentioned how Sperz had only scored 1 goal from open play......and I thought 'hold on a minute, so had we up until today!'

There's a long, long way to go to convince me. The first 45 minutes on Saturday were as good as anything we've produced under him, and we played "ok" in patches against Burnley and Norwich. When we're going on 10-15 game unbeaten runs, scoring goals and playing with a settled style and pattern I will start to believe........there's a good way to go yet!

Credit for the new signings though - if we're honest we were quick to condemn the likes of Ramsdale and Tomiyasu but so far they haven't put a foot wrong

I expect you'll have a few of our snowflake members say you are just being negative, but personally I think you are right. It's not negativity but rather just being realistic.

Graham Sourness got slaughtered for saying the scum were poor, and as good as we were against them, there is no denying they were quite poor and Nuno Sprite Coca-Cola didn't have a clue what to do.

We are on a nice little run, we are mostly playing well in patches but we have beaten mostly minnows and relegation fodder. We are not a good side yet. We are still fragile and I fear we will get hammered against a top side... just like we did against citeh....

For me Martinez-Lite has to get rid of Clive. We are a much better team without him. He also needs to play Ramsdale and Tommi until they have a complete clanger or two. Forget about upsetting Butter Wrists or anyone else, pick the on form players.

Yep - and you've known me well enough to know that if I've got it wrong, I'll be the first to say.......but at the moment we're above the team we're ridiculing (rightly so) on goals scored. If someone said 10th after six games I doubt anyone would say that was a fantastic achievement.

Lets see how he goes from here. Clive has to go......that's clear to anyone with half a brain. Butter Wrists has played his best games for this club when he's had a credible challenge to his place as assured number 1 - when Martinez was sold and he had the likes of Runarsson as his challenge he became a complacent cock. If he's able to replicate his early form under challenge from Ramsdale, I'll give him a shot. If he sulks like a c.unt and wants a divine right to be number 1, then he can walk too

Agreed , credit for the turnaround so far but especially the new signings, the abuse Ramsdale got was bang out of order, not from here I might add. I love his passion and bollocking defenders all the time just what we need. Tommy looks like a solid no nonsense defender , we have a good base now to let the kids play up front.

Leno has no chance of getting back in and will be gone in January.

As you said he needs to build on this now , 3 points on Saturday going into the break will be a good sign, I'm a big fan of Potter , he done well abroad as well and will be a tough game.

[Gunnerz4life]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

This manager isn't good enough. Win, draw or lose p, he's not the right man for the job.

[Gunnerz4life]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

This manager isn't good enough. Win, draw or lose p, he's not the right man for the job.

Yes, he could and probably should have been sacked during the woeful run back in November. But another more seasoned manager has faced problems with this squad as well and was ultimately sacked for his troubles. From the very beginning Arteta has talked about wholesale changes being needed in the squad so I am certain this was brought up and agreed between him and club that the issue lies with the squad and that it is not a quick fix.

From the recruitment we have done this year there seems to be a genuine attempt to bring down the walls and build from scratch. I heard or read somewhere that out of the 11 that started the scum game, 7 were Arteta signings and 4 he has given long term contracts to. So this is his team and I feel he deserves a chance to show what he can do with it.

[Jayives]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

Reverted to type ? Honestly mate there was little danger in that 2nd half and even when they scored there wasn’t too much concern. Don’t be sour just enjoy an impressive performance.

Any manager would have struggled with some of the turds in our squad last year and seeing the new faces come in has been refreshing paired with the return of fans to the emirates which seems to be helping. Why not sit back for a bit and see how it plays out for this young team rather than whining

[the playing mantis]

Yes we all delighted to best the scum. but it was at home, and we should be doing it as a matter of course, plus they are shite as well.

As someone above says, we have done as expected bar losing to brentford. Hes done nothing more than bare minimum and less than that due to the Brentford loss. Add last seasons garbage to it and hes still massively in negative credit. It will take far more than a few wins against teams we should be beating 9 times out of 10 to change anyone with any sense's mind that hes the right man and can get us back to where we should be. Yes the first half was very encouraging and the signings thus far are doing well, but 2nd half showed a familiar lack of in game management and we could easily have cocked it up were it not for Ramsdale making amends for letting sons shot through him. However artetas loyalty to xhaka is a huge concern and fear he will not resist tinkering and bringing leno and soares back when Ramsdale and TT are a huge breath of fresh air.

Brighton is a game we should be wining despite their inflated position, under a massively overrated manager, yet i think we will drop points. Very happy to be proved wrong however and hope i am.

[DB10GOONER]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

Reverted to type ? Honestly mate there was little danger in that 2nd half and even when they scored there wasn’t too much concern. Don’t be sour just enjoy an impressive performance.

Any manager would have struggled with some of the turds in our squad last year and seeing the new faces come in has been refreshing paired with the return of fans to the emirates which seems to be helping. Why not sit back for a bit and see how it plays out for this young team rather than whining

🌨❄🌨❄

Only kidding mate!

Personally I don't look on being realistic as whining. I also don't agree that "any manager" would have struggled as much as Martinez-Lite did last year. He is a novice. An older more experienced manager would have gotten more out of those players and would have dropped certain players rather than being concerned about them liking him or whatever Martinez-Lite's thinking was at the time.

He made a lot of selection and substitution mistakes that a more experienced manager wouldn't have made. We cannot blame the players for everything. At the end of the day the manager's job is to get the best from those players, no matter what standard they are. Look what GG achieved with a few brilliant players mixed with some quite ordinary players in 89 and 91. But then GG came to us with four years coaching experience and 5 years managerial experience behind him.

Martinez-Lite may turn out to be a top manager some day but he should never be learning his craft as a novice at a club the size of Arsenal. That's not negativity but just common sense I think.

[Gunnerz4life]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

Reverted to type ? Honestly mate there was little danger in that 2nd half and even when they scored there wasn’t too much concern. Don’t be sour just enjoy an impressive performance.

Any manager would have struggled with some of the turds in our squad last year and seeing the new faces come in has been refreshing paired with the return of fans to the emirates which seems to be helping. Why not sit back for a bit and see how it plays out for this young team rather than whining

🌨❄🌨❄

Only kidding mate!

Personally I don't look on being realistic as whining. I also don't agree that "any manager" would have struggled as much as Martinez-Lite did last year. He is a novice. An older more experienced manager would have gotten more out of those players and would have dropped certain players rather than being concerned about them liking him or whatever Martinez-Lite's thinking was at the time.

He made a lot of selection and substitution mistakes that a more experienced manager wouldn't have made. We cannot blame the players for everything. At the end of the day the manager's job is to get the best from those players, no matter what standard they are. Look what GG achieved with a few brilliant players mixed with some quite ordinary players in 89 and 91. But then GG came to us with four years coaching experience and 5 years managerial experience behind him.

Martinez-Lite may turn out to be a top manager some day but he should never be learning his craft as a novice at a club the size of Arsenal. That's not negativity but just common sense I think.

But mate, an older experienced manager with a pedigree of winning trophies with average teams was in charge of this squad before Arteta came in and he struggled. There are no guarantees that another manager would have gotten more out of this squad, it's purely speculative.

When Wenger left, the club tried to get Arteta and then developed cold feet due to his lack of experience and hired Emery which backfired. The realisation had come that the sh*t we were in , we were not a quick fix and major surgery was needed with the squad and there was a need for a long term plan. Should Arteta been the go to guy to carry out that plan? Probably not as there were other young managers with more experience who would have bought into that plan, I am not convinced that a top manager would invest in such a plan. But the fact is he has delivered in totally changing the look of the squad within 1 and a half season. How many of us have moaned over the years about the players who has been underperforming for years continued to be part of the team? How many of those players are still at the club?

As I have said previously no signing is a guaranteed success and this might all come crashing down. But this team and to a certain extent the manager does get a clean slate from me.

[DB10GOONER]

It's a bit funny that we are supposed to be objective and have some perspective and not get carried away from our wins against lowly Norwich, Burnley and the scum. Yet after 3 defeats, 2 of which were against the league and European champions with a skeleton of a squad, people were calling for the manager's head and objectivity went out of the window .

Do I think Arteta or the team has turned the corner? No I don't, 3 wins is not enough evidence like 3 losses weren't.

What excites me though is the freshness and newness of the side. It's a young and talented team who are keen to impress, who realize they are at a massive club and willing to give their all. I find it a lot easier to get behind and support this group than I have for another Arsenal team since the Invincibles. Arteta had taken a massive gamble with the recruitment and each signing who does well will be to his credit like it would be to his detriment if they flop. I don't know how far this team will go or what constitutes success for this team this season, there are bound to be losses and lows, but I am generally encouraged and looking forward to see this playing each week.

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

Reverted to type ? Honestly mate there was little danger in that 2nd half and even when they scored there wasn’t too much concern. Don’t be sour just enjoy an impressive performance.

Any manager would have struggled with some of the turds in our squad last year and seeing the new faces come in has been refreshing paired with the return of fans to the emirates which seems to be helping. Why not sit back for a bit and see how it plays out for this young team rather than whining

🌨❄🌨❄

Only kidding mate!

Personally I don't look on being realistic as whining. I also don't agree that "any manager" would have struggled as much as Martinez-Lite did last year. He is a novice. An older more experienced manager would have gotten more out of those players and would have dropped certain players rather than being concerned about them liking him or whatever Martinez-Lite's thinking was at the time.

He made a lot of selection and substitution mistakes that a more experienced manager wouldn't have made. We cannot blame the players for everything. At the end of the day the manager's job is to get the best from those players, no matter what standard they are. Look what GG achieved with a few brilliant players mixed with some quite ordinary players in 89 and 91. But then GG came to us with four years coaching experience and 5 years managerial experience behind him.

Martinez-Lite may turn out to be a top manager some day but he should never be learning his craft as a novice at a club the size of Arsenal. That's not negativity but just common sense I think.

But mate, an older experienced manager with a pedigree of winning trophies with average teams was in charge of this squad before Arteta came in and he struggled. There are no guarantees that another manager would have gotten more out of this squad, it's purely speculative.

When Wenger left, the club tried to get Arteta and then developed cold feet due to his lack of experience and hired Emery which backfired. The realisation had come that the sh*t we were in , we were not a quick fix and major surgery was needed with the squad and there was a need for a long term plan. Should Arteta been the go to guy to carry out that plan? Probably not as there were other young managers with more experience who would have bought into that plan, I am not convinced that a top manager would invest in such a plan. But the fact is he has delivered in totally changing the look of the squad within 1 and a half season. How many of us have moaned over the years about the players who has been underperforming for years continued to be part of the team? How many of those players are still at the club?

As I have said previously no signing is a guaranteed success and this might all come crashing down. But this team and to a certain extent the manager does get a clean slate from me.

I agree with a lot of what you say there. There are no guarantees. But there are things you can mitigate against with a bit of common sense.

I never said it had to be a top manager, just an experienced manager. GG wasn't a top manager when he got the job, but he was experienced.

There is also an argument that Martinez-Lite has done far worse than Emery did. I personally agree Emery was the wrong man for the job but that doesn't mean Martinez-Lite is the right man. Emery wasn't the first Arsenal manager to fail to qualify for Europe in a quarter century in fairness to him.

I'd also disagree that Martinez-Lite has delivered in changing the look of the squad - if you mean making us a better team? We are not a better team. We were exposed for what we are against citeh. We've been poor for two years now and this season so far we've been poor and sometimes shockingly so. Even against a proper shit scum team we exposed our weaknesses in that second half. We were lucky they were so poor. And that's not taking anything away from our performance overall, as you can only play against what's in front of you. But it is worrying.

Look at it this way, citeh, the chavs, the manc filth or the mousers* all would have slapped the scum for 6-0. We couldn't. Especially after the footballing guru basically took off all our attackers and sat back for the last quarter of the game, inviting them to score. It's this kind of poor judgement that also worries me. Why not put them to the sword? Why not keep a clean sheet and help build up the confidence of the new keeper and the back four? Why invite the possibility of denting their confidence by sitting back and conceding a goal and, if not for Ramsdale, two goals?

I'd be impressed with Martinez-Lite if he dropped the psuedo football intellectual bollocks and kept that team from Sunday playing for a good run of PL games, to let the vital on-field partnerships form in defence and midfield. That would at least show he is learning. But does anyone think he will? I don't. His agenda seems, (like a lot of inexperienced managers in all walks of life) to be trying to prove how clever he is.

A case in point. If the mong Clive hadn't thankfully injured himself through his own stupidity we all know Martinez-Lite would have picked him for the next game no matter what.

[DB10GOONER]

And apologies for the epic fucking novel there!

[Jayives]

It’s too early to be certain wether Arteta is a good manager or bad manager. The jury is still out, You can pretend you know but you don’t really as it’s early days and with the new signings bedding in things will improve. How much so remains to be seen.

Also trying to put down our win on Sunday which people are doing on here to seems a little bizarre to me and would scream of someone trying to enforce a pre determined agenda. We absolutely battered them in that first half so much so we naturally took our foot off the pedal a bit.

Some of our fans seem desperate for us to emulate spurs in the 90s when they changed their manager every 16 months and when you go down that route you really get nowhere. Maybe we should hire Gerry the badger Francis. If you can’t enjoy a comprehensive win againest our rivals without pretending we got lucky you should seek advice from a behavioural therapist about how to deal with your own inner self loathing.

[Gunnerz4life]

It's not just three games though, is it. It's over 12 months of SHITE football. Last season was an embarrassment, and he shouldn't have been sacked twice over. He shouldn't still be in the job. The wins over Norwich and Burnley were scraped through. The first half against Spurs was the best bit of football we've seen at the club for months, then the second-half reverted to type.

Reverted to type ? Honestly mate there was little danger in that 2nd half and even when they scored there wasn’t too much concern. Don’t be sour just enjoy an impressive performance.

Any manager would have struggled with some of the turds in our squad last year and seeing the new faces come in has been refreshing paired with the return of fans to the emirates which seems to be helping. Why not sit back for a bit and see how it plays out for this young team rather than whining

🌨❄🌨❄

Only kidding mate!

Personally I don't look on being realistic as whining. I also don't agree that "any manager" would have struggled as much as Martinez-Lite did last year. He is a novice. An older more experienced manager would have gotten more out of those players and would have dropped certain players rather than being concerned about them liking him or whatever Martinez-Lite's thinking was at the time.

He made a lot of selection and substitution mistakes that a more experienced manager wouldn't have made. We cannot blame the players for everything. At the end of the day the manager's job is to get the best from those players, no matter what standard they are. Look what GG achieved with a few brilliant players mixed with some quite ordinary players in 89 and 91. But then GG came to us with four years coaching experience and 5 years managerial experience behind him.

Martinez-Lite may turn out to be a top manager some day but he should never be learning his craft as a novice at a club the size of Arsenal. That's not negativity but just common sense I think.

But mate, an older experienced manager with a pedigree of winning trophies with average teams was in charge of this squad before Arteta came in and he struggled. There are no guarantees that another manager would have gotten more out of this squad, it's purely speculative.

When Wenger left, the club tried to get Arteta and then developed cold feet due to his lack of experience and hired Emery which backfired. The realisation had come that the sh*t we were in , we were not a quick fix and major surgery was needed with the squad and there was a need for a long term plan. Should Arteta been the go to guy to carry out that plan? Probably not as there were other young managers with more experience who would have bought into that plan, I am not convinced that a top manager would invest in such a plan. But the fact is he has delivered in totally changing the look of the squad within 1 and a half season. How many of us have moaned over the years about the players who has been underperforming for years continued to be part of the team? How many of those players are still at the club?

As I have said previously no signing is a guaranteed success and this might all come crashing down. But this team and to a certain extent the manager does get a clean slate from me.

I agree with a lot of what you say there. There are no guarantees. But there are things you can mitigate against with a bit of common sense.

I never said it had to be a top manager, just an experienced manager. GG wasn't a top manager when he got the job, but he was experienced.

There is also an argument that Martinez-Lite has done far worse than Emery did. I personally agree Emery was the wrong man for the job but that doesn't mean Martinez-Lite is the right man. Emery wasn't the first Arsenal manager to fail to qualify for Europe in a quarter century in fairness to him.

I'd also disagree that Martinez-Lite has delivered in changing the look of the squad - if you mean making us a better team? We are not a better team. We were exposed for what we are against citeh. We've been poor for two years now and this season so far we've been poor and sometimes shockingly so. Even against a proper shit scum team we exposed our weaknesses in that second half. We were lucky they were so poor. And that's not taking anything away from our performance overall, as you can only play against what's in front of you. But it is worrying.

Look at it this way, citeh, the chavs, the manc filth or the mousers* all would have slapped the scum for 6-0. We couldn't. Especially after the footballing guru basically took off all our attackers and sat back for the last quarter of the game, inviting them to score. It's this kind of poor judgement that also worries me. Why not put them to the sword? Why not keep a clean sheet and help build up the confidence of the new keeper and the back four? Why invite the possibility of denting their confidence by sitting back and conceding a goal and, if not for Ramsdale, two goals?

I'd be impressed with Martinez-Lite if he dropped the psuedo football intellectual bollocks and kept that team from Sunday playing for a good run of PL games, to let the vital on-field partnerships form in defence and midfield. That would at least show he is learning. But does anyone think he will? I don't. His agenda seems, (like a lot of inexperienced managers in all walks of life) to be trying to prove how clever he is.

A case in point. If the mong Clive hadn't thankfully injured himself through his own stupidity we all know Martinez-Lite would have picked him for the next game no matter what.

We won't know if this is a better team untill we see them play which is what my overall point is of giving this team a chance without having to carry any baggage from the past. We were a shambles against City and the tactics and team selection were questionable but the squad was threadbare at the time. I also felt we were pretty comfortable against the scum in the second half. Going for the juggernaut in a game which was as good won and risking being exposed was not worth it. We want the team to play with swagger and put opponents to sword but that comes with confidence and building confidence for a new team takes time. The defensive substitutions were after the 85th minute so it's not like we downed tools too early. O and by the way, City had already played this poor Scum team this season and you know what the result was .

I don't think any manager does things to show how clever they are. Some decisions may make zero sense to the whole world but a manager have their reason for making them and they live and die by those decisions. You are setting him up for failure already if you expect him to keep the same team week in week out. I am sure given a choice he would like to now that he has the players he wanted but there are a lot of things that goes on behind the scenes on player metrics and fatigue that we are not aware of. As far as our beloved Clive goes, Arteta does appear to trust him but it is not unique to him. This guy has started regularly for two previous managers and was made captain by one. He was also courted by another high profile manager this summer and there are rumours of Juve being interested in him. It's obvious that managers sees something in this bloke that us fans don't. I won't be surprised if we bring in Conte tomorrow and he makes Clive captain again.