Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

According to ssn the scum are in talks with conte

Don't worry augster. Even if they sign him it won't last a year. Conte is opinionated and aggressive. Levy can't tolerate that. Trust Uncle Old Dirty Bastard.

[rodders999]

According to ssn the scum are in talks with conte

It would make fuck all sense for him to walk out on Inter after just winning Serie A citing a lack of investment only to then rock up at the scum who are about to see their best player walk out the door and are up to their bollocks in debt after building the stadium and then having a year with no fans being allowed in to pay for it.

If he goes there it will just go to show the investment thing at Inter was all bullshit and he's just after a massive pay day for himself.

[StuartL]

Carlo Ancelotti from Everton to Real Madrid is almost a done deal @TheAthleticUK #EFC #RMFC https://t.co/6NuIMggzf7

I will bet my bollox that an ambitious club like everton are, wont come looking for pep's cone boy if they need a new manager

Certainly now that Sam Alladyce is available after he rejected Madrid

[gooner265]

#THFC Antonio Conte in advanced talks with Tottenham board about...

- Long term contract.
- Project, salary, new signings.
- Former Juventus Paratici as new director of football.
- Official bid made to Paratici but he’ll decide soon.
- Conte has never been close to join Real.

[gooner265]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

[DB10GOONER]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Hmmm you could be right there.

[augie]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

[gooner265]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

Augie I know yiu believe Arteta hates young players but I just don't buy it and never have. I do believe he naively didn't trust to play them and tried to rely on his senior players but I'm hoping he will learn from that . I don't believe he is going anywhere so I'm maybe naively myself hoping he will do some self analysis and change his thinking and be brave and build a young team .
There have been many reports the players enjoy working with him , I agree Martinelli has been criminally underused but don't believe it's because he doesn't rate him, he gave him a long deal and ESR is about to sign one too , as has Balogun. Why would they have done that if they didn't trust him especially Balogun who had plenty of offers.

[DB10GOONER]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

I too don't buy the 'Martinez-Lite hates or distrusts the young players" theory. It just doesn't hold water. He has played too many of them. Even the shit Pillock got 80 games ffs.

I do believe he hasn't much of a clue as a manager and THAT is why he has made the huge error of under utilising Martinelli. But I also believe his ego won't let him admit the media for once got it right early on with Martinelli. Of course I could be wrong in that but I get a real Wenger arrogance "I won't be told by lesser mortals" vibe from him.

And seriously augster old buddy, if you are part basing or qualifying your theory on "all the big transfer rumours" then it's time to put that theory to bed!

ALL THE TRANSFER RUMOURS ARE MADE UP SHITE BY THE LIKES OF THE ORNSTEIN ARSEHOLE.

[the playing mantis]

just hope the conte rumor to scum is made up then.

why on earth would he go there they have no money

[augie]

Lads, firstly I never mentioned my belief that pep's cone boy doesnt want to play younger players, so even though both of ye disagree with that belief, it doesnt address the points I actually made.

Martinelli is getting royally shit on - there can be no denying that. One of the best youngsters we have had in the club for years, and yet this cock wont play him Is it an age thing ? Is it because he see's him as an emery guy ? I cant say that the reasons are not important cos they are, but for this argument right now, I am merely pointing out that he is clearly not a young player enjoying life under this cock.

Smith-Rowe is in my opinion, the most naturally gifted footballer (not player) we have had in years, and there is no coincidence that our results and performances increased after he was (reluctantly) put in the team. Sadly unlike most of you I do not see this story ending well if el beige is still the manager this time next year - personally I dont doubt that pep's cone boy is after a number 10, and his loan signing of odegaard and his intention to try and buy him outright is evidence of that. Where does that leave smith-rowe ? Does anyone believe that arteta would spend the type of money required to buy odegaard or benduia and have them as back up to smith-rowe for the 10 position ? Ah but smith-rowe will then play on the wing and wont lose out I hear you say - will he be first choice ahead of saka, martinelli, pepe and maybe auba ? Will he fcuk. He will be eased down to the role of sub/rotational player, and imo he is too good for that, and it will affect his development.

Saka got pushed out at the tail end of last season and didnt feature in either the cup semi final or the final itself, and tbh I was worried for him then. Then we signed willian in the summer and he started ahead of him for first league game against fulham and again it didnt look good. Of course fast forward a few months and it is a totally different picture as saka has established himself as one of the first names on the team sheet, but I cant help wondering if that would have been the case if willian wasnt so shit Willian was brought into be one of the first choice wingers - you dont bring a guy like him and pay him over 200k per week to be a squad player, and at that stage auba was playing on the wing too, so where would that have left saka ? I dont doubt that arteta seen him as a back-up at that time, now whether that was done to a lack of belief in the kid or the fact that he didnt think that he was ready I dont know, but I will add that saka had made 26 appearances in the league the previous season (19 starts), so I would question the not ready thought.

It's easy to look back now and have a different view on what was happening back then, but I still dont see and evidence, then or now, that arteta supports playing the younger players, or that they enjoy playing for him. No matter how meaningless our games have been this season, neither balogun not azeez have got a look in, and surely most managers would have done differently ?

[SteveO 35]

Tierney on Arteta:

“I listen to everything the manager tells me, word for word. I love working with him, he’s helped me massively.

If you can see the differences in my game in the last 18 months, it’s because of Mikel & what his coaching staff have been telling me to do” #afc https://t.co/dVGo9NEkcx

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

I too don't buy the 'Martinez-Lite hates or distrusts the young players" theory. It just doesn't hold water. He has played too many of them. Even the shit Pillock got 80 games ffs.

I do believe he hasn't much of a clue as a manager and THAT is why he has made the huge error of under utilising Martinelli. But I also believe his ego won't let him admit the media for once got it right early on with Martinelli. Of course I could be wrong in that but I get a real Wenger arrogance "I won't be told by lesser mortals" vibe from him.

And seriously augster old buddy, if you are part basing or qualifying your theory on "all the big transfer rumours" then it's time to put that theory to bed!

ALL THE TRANSFER RUMOURS ARE MADE UP SHITE BY THE LIKES OF THE ORNSTEIN ARSEHOLE.

I think he's a manager who takes the path of least resistance and if there's a senior pro available ahead of a younger player, he takes that option. David Luiz over Saliba, Willian over Martinelli, Clive over Azeez and so it goes on. Saka is an exceptional case - we're talking here about a player who has been consistently outstanding and plays in several positions.......even with him last season, there were matches were he inexplicably left him out.

This is a guy who favours the cosy club of ex-mates and any senior pro who cosies up to him - Bellerin, Leno, Xhaka, Luiz, Willian - all players who were consistently shit but yet played dozens of times when younger, better alternatives were available.

Before anyone says anything about Ozil being the exception to the rule, it is widely understood that his political stance was behind his complete omission from any squads in all competitions.

I do agree with his Wenger like arrogance and unwillingness to be challenged - something that we all know cost us dearly in the last decade of Wenger and hence the exact reason why having this prick in charge now will see the club move back even further.

[gooner265]

I never put too much stock in these kind of statements. I mean what is he going to say? "Jesus man, that Arteta is fucking shithouse."

I put it down to one of two things: the usual "of course the manager is great, I wanna keep my place in the team ffs" statement, or maybe, just maybe, Martinez-Lite is training Tierney well. Maybe individually many of the players feel he has improved them in some way.

The problem is that is what a coach does.

A manager has to be able to get all those individual players to work effectively together as a team and that is something that is beyond Martinez-Lite at present.

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

I too don't buy the 'Martinez-Lite hates or distrusts the young players" theory. It just doesn't hold water. He has played too many of them. Even the shit Pillock got 80 games ffs.

I do believe he hasn't much of a clue as a manager and THAT is why he has made the huge error of under utilising Martinelli. But I also believe his ego won't let him admit the media for once got it right early on with Martinelli. Of course I could be wrong in that but I get a real Wenger arrogance "I won't be told by lesser mortals" vibe from him.

And seriously augster old buddy, if you are part basing or qualifying your theory on "all the big transfer rumours" then it's time to put that theory to bed!

ALL THE TRANSFER RUMOURS ARE MADE UP SHITE BY THE LIKES OF THE ORNSTEIN ARSEHOLE.

I think he's a manager who takes the path of least resistance and if there's a senior pro available ahead of a younger player, he takes that option. David Luiz over Saliba, Willian over Martinelli, Clive over Azeez and so it goes on. Saka is an exceptional case - we're talking here about a player who has been consistently outstanding and plays in several positions.......even with him last season, there were matches were he inexplicably left him out.

This is a guy who favours the cosy club of ex-mates and any senior pro who cosies up to him - Bellerin, Leno, Xhaka, Luiz, Willian - all players who were consistently shit but yet played dozens of times when younger, better alternatives were available.

Before anyone says anything about Ozil being the exception to the rule, it is widely understood that his political stance was behind his complete omission from any squads in all competitions.

I do agree with his Wenger like arrogance and unwillingness to be challenged - something that we all know cost us dearly in the last decade of Wenger and hence the exact reason why having this prick in charge now will see the club move back even further.

All players that look to be leaving this summer , he stated being ruthless so as I said earlier if he ( which he should have done) has done some serious self-analysis on himself maybe changing direction. Being a manager myself ( or was until my redundancy) I always reflected on my mistakes and tried to learn form them. Being the rookie he is maybe he will do the same , surely he will realise that and the fact the rumours of the exits are all the players we want gone bears that out.
If he doesn't then it clearly is arrogance which is the same path Wenger went down, I'm a glass half full person so hoping the former is correct, this summer will tell us what we need to know and he will have nowhere to hide next year,
as for ESR Augie , totally with you on my favourite player and delighted he has broken through , he did show signs of linking up well with Odegaard though and maybe he wants to play 2 no 10s behind the striker, no-one plays rigid formations these days , another creative player will come in, with Xhaka leaving maybe two midfielders and ESR has the abilty to drift all over the pitch as Pires did.

Given we only need a small squad next year I'd happily sell Laca and Eddie and have Auba, Gabi and Balogun as my three strikers , Azeez i don't know if he's ready as he's very young and might be an idea to loan him for half a season first.

[GoonerMuzz]

The only reason these youngsters are foremost in our minds is because the senior pro's have been so shit, if the more senior players were playing well then it is extremely doubtful more than one or two of these would have sniff of a chance at the first team regularly, they would all be undergoing a standard development cycle and being eased into the squad as required.

NO manager in his right mind with a good enough squad of seasoned professionals would chance playing 3 youngsters barely out of the reserves regularly at one time, add in Azeez and Balogun potentially too.

As it stands we have 3 very good young players who have a chance to make a name for themselves in forward positions because those around them have been crap but these are extraordinary circumstances not the norm as it would be at a football club run properly.

The question is then if Martinelli and Saka play regularly how do you shape the line and who misses out if we assume ESR is the no 10? I really don't like Pepe but he scored 16 goals, Laca 17 and PEA 15, at least on of those has to be dropped to accommodate Martinelli with no guarantee he will score regularly

Some choices are clear cut, or at least should be, for Capt Black but not all of them. In fact the competition to play should be pushing our forward line to be a lot better I only wish the problem existed in the rest of the squad

[SteveO 35]

You could argue pepe has improved as well , thus summer is massive for him , but the young players seem to enjoy playing for him , it's the older ones who have issues, just saying.

Did you contact martinelli to check that statement out ? We have 3 good young players - saka has made himself first choice, smith-rowe has got pushed out of his proper position to make way for a loan signing (plus all the big transfer rumours suggest that pep's cone boy wants to buy a player for that position so he wont be played there much next season either), and of course martinelli has been disgracefully marginalised, so I'm keen to know what you are basing that comment on

I too don't buy the 'Martinez-Lite hates or distrusts the young players" theory. It just doesn't hold water. He has played too many of them. Even the shit Pillock got 80 games ffs.

I do believe he hasn't much of a clue as a manager and THAT is why he has made the huge error of under utilising Martinelli. But I also believe his ego won't let him admit the media for once got it right early on with Martinelli. Of course I could be wrong in that but I get a real Wenger arrogance "I won't be told by lesser mortals" vibe from him.

And seriously augster old buddy, if you are part basing or qualifying your theory on "all the big transfer rumours" then it's time to put that theory to bed!

ALL THE TRANSFER RUMOURS ARE MADE UP SHITE BY THE LIKES OF THE ORNSTEIN ARSEHOLE.

I think he's a manager who takes the path of least resistance and if there's a senior pro available ahead of a younger player, he takes that option. David Luiz over Saliba, Willian over Martinelli, Clive over Azeez and so it goes on. Saka is an exceptional case - we're talking here about a player who has been consistently outstanding and plays in several positions.......even with him last season, there were matches were he inexplicably left him out.

This is a guy who favours the cosy club of ex-mates and any senior pro who cosies up to him - Bellerin, Leno, Xhaka, Luiz, Willian - all players who were consistently shit but yet played dozens of times when younger, better alternatives were available.

Before anyone says anything about Ozil being the exception to the rule, it is widely understood that his political stance was behind his complete omission from any squads in all competitions.

I do agree with his Wenger like arrogance and unwillingness to be challenged - something that we all know cost us dearly in the last decade of Wenger and hence the exact reason why having this prick in charge now will see the club move back even further.

All players that look to be leaving this summer , he stated being ruthless so as I said earlier if he ( which he should have done) has done some serious self-analysis on himself maybe changing direction. Being a manager myself ( or was until my redundancy) I always reflected on my mistakes and tried to learn form them. Being the rookie he is maybe he will do the same , surely he will realise that and the fact the rumours of the exits are all the players we want gone bears that out.
If he doesn't then it clearly is arrogance which is the same path Wenger went down, I'm a glass half full person so hoping the former is correct, this summer will tell us what we need to know and he will have nowhere to hide next year,
as for ESR Augie , totally with you on my favourite player and delighted he has broken through , he did show signs of linking up well with Odegaard though and maybe he wants to play 2 no 10s behind the striker, no-one plays rigid formations these days , another creative player will come in, with Xhaka leaving maybe two midfielders and ESR has the abilty to drift all over the pitch as Pires did.

Given we only need a small squad next year I'd happily sell Laca and Eddie and have Auba, Gabi and Balogun as my three strikers , Azeez i don't know if he's ready as he's very young and might be an idea to loan him for half a season first.

All very valid points - all good managers and leaders learn from their mistakes. We've all made them throughout our managerial careers and even the untouchable Pep and Klopp have come under fire for baffling choices this season.

If he swept that lot out of the door, I would be fully on board with giving him a chance. Bellerin has played 183 games for the club and has been consistently shit for 3 managers. Xhaka has played 161 games. Willian has played 260 times in this country. These players are not going to be improving and for any manager to be arrogant enough to think they will turn them into world beaters is plain daft......its why I've said that every appearance for those guys is a wasted one. What is Bellerin going to show you on the 184th appearance, or Xhaka on the 162nd ? Get rid of these fucking c.unts once and for all.

Nobody can tell me that Azeez isn't worth a shot this season, or Balogun, unless there are going to be millions spent on top quality players reinforcing those positions......something I hardly see as likely.

Captain Black wasted the whole season rotating between Ceballos, Elneny, Xhaka and Partey, and also rotating endless centre half pairings and where did that get us?

If he's prepared to settle upon some proper partnerships, promote youth talent over deadwood like that list of c.unts above, and be prepared to learn from his mistakes, I'll be delighted to be proved wrong with all the negative comments I've made about him. I just don't believe he will - he's a path of least resistance man and has played the same XI consecutively only once in 80 odd games