Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
9
9%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
27
27%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
20
20%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
44
44%
 
Total votes: 100

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Arsenal Till I Die
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Arsenal Till I Die »

In all honesty, we need an experienced manager who is capable of working (well) on a budget. I honestly think the right person to establish a system, build a team on/around a set budget and, at least turn us into a tricky team to play against, is Rafa Benitez.

He also won the EL with Chelsea the season they were in the shit.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by goonersid »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:32 pm
This thread is now as tedious and repetitive as the Wenger thread became. :yawn: :lol:
Bit like yourself so :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Retro Gunner »

the playing mantis wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:43 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:32 pm
This thread is now as tedious and repetitive as the Wenger thread became. :yawn: :lol:
didnt take 10 years though!

has he gone yet?


Who, DB10 ?? No, sadly not.

It’s like having another bleedin’ Wenger hanging about, not knowing when it’s time to fuck off. :roll:

:-P :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by DB10GOONER »

Who said that? I'm really gonna have to start reading all these posts, even the ones from the lesser posters..... :D :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

Tonight's game is an absolute irrelevance really in the bigger picture.

If the result and performance against the Spuds is in line with our recent effort in the leagues, even those undecided fans will surely start turning. Defeat against those c.unts is never nice at the best of times, and this certainly isn't the best of times.

Someone asked me earlier, what it would take for him to save face and win me over. Good question. He certainly has to make use of the January window. I don't want to hear all this bollocks about COVID-19 - there are players available to improve us. Go and get Christian Eriksen - even if on loan for the season with a view to a permanent move - and the Hungarian lad who looks value at c. €25m. Its clear Aouar isn't coming so stop moping about on that one and get two creative midfielders

Get Saliba and Smith Rowe into the first team squad on a regular basis - how will anyone know if they're any good including him?

Martinelli - once fit, becomes as a regular a selection as Auba. Don't rotate him with fucking Pepe and Willian. Get Saka, Auba and Martinelli as the regular front three

Adapt the style of play so that it's not always two plodding donkeys holding the midfield. Try anything to make us more mobile there - Maitland Niles, one of the academy boys etc.......Xhaka and Ceballos will kill every match we ever play

If he's prepared to do most of the above and start showing us that he's written off the season and is planning for something better to build upon in the Summer, I'd be prepared to give it a go.....in the same way I felt Dick should have had the time to complete 'his' team. However, if we fuck off another window, hiding behind the COVID-19 bullshit and playing the same style of football week in, week out, he can truly go fuck himself

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by augie »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... id-future/

Not under pep's cone man he wont :roll:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... rtesacker/

Not to worry lads cos we have a midfield consisting of xhaka, ceballos and elneny (improved but still not good enough) :banghead: :banghead:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by gooner265 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:35 pm
Tonight's game is an absolute irrelevance really in the bigger picture.

If the result and performance against the Spuds is in line with our recent effort in the leagues, even those undecided fans will surely start turning. Defeat against those c.unts is never nice at the best of times, and this certainly isn't the best of times.

Someone asked me earlier, what it would take for him to save face and win me over. Good question. He certainly has to make use of the January window. I don't want to hear all this bollocks about COVID-19 - there are players available to improve us. Go and get Christian Eriksen - even if on loan for the season with a view to a permanent move - and the Hungarian lad who looks value at c. €25m. Its clear Aouar isn't coming so stop moping about on that one and get two creative midfielders

Get Saliba and Smith Rowe into the first team squad on a regular basis - how will anyone know if they're any good including him?

Martinelli - once fit, becomes as a regular a selection as Auba. Don't rotate him with fucking Pepe and Willian. Get Saka, Auba and Martinelli as the regular front three

Adapt the style of play so that it's not always two plodding donkeys holding the midfield. Try anything to make us more mobile there - Maitland Niles, one of the academy boys etc.......Xhaka and Ceballos will kill every match we ever play

If he's prepared to do most of the above and start showing us that he's written off the season and is planning for something better to build upon in the Summer, I'd be prepared to give it a go.....in the same way I felt Dick should have had the time to complete 'his' team. However, if we fuck off another window, hiding behind the COVID-19 bullshit and playing the same style of football week in, week out, he can truly go fuck himself
Good and very fair post, there are reports Aaouar is out of favour now after refusing to train and may be offloaded in january also reports kronkes will give us 75 million ( yes I know) for the window. If he can get a couple of quality midfielders in , shif some of the deadwood which I think will happen and integrate the kids we could show some progress. I also agree it's the perfect time to buy while other clubs are cash strapped and we may be finally be receiving some investment so lets go for it.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by mcdowell42 »

According to @JamesOlley, #Arsenal's players exchanged angry words with each other in a clear-the-air meeting after manager Mikel Arteta called the squad together to identify reasons behind their poor start to the season. https://t.co/QVR3QYxVs9

Arteta sought to rally his players and invited a frank exchange of views while also informing them he is continuing to investigate the source of leaks that led to a training ground bust-up between Dani Ceballos & David Luiz becoming public. #Arsenal

Once this first meeting was concluded, the coaching staff left but the players stayed behind to hold an impromptu second discussion by themselves which has been described by multiple sources as 'stormy' & 'intense'.

Sources claim this second conversation involved an angry but constructive dialogue with 'finger-pointing' & raised voices but ended amicably with a firm desire to rally behind Arteta & improve their performances in the Premier League. #Arsenal


Hooray we're going to win the league :D

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:16 pm
According to @JamesOlley, #Arsenal's players exchanged angry words with each other in a clear-the-air meeting after manager Mikel Arteta called the squad together to identify reasons behind their poor start to the season. https://t.co/QVR3QYxVs9

Arteta sought to rally his players and invited a frank exchange of views while also informing them he is continuing to investigate the source of leaks that led to a training ground bust-up between Dani Ceballos & David Luiz becoming public. #Arsenal

Once this first meeting was concluded, the coaching staff left but the players stayed behind to hold an impromptu second discussion by themselves which has been described by multiple sources as 'stormy' & 'intense'.

Sources claim this second conversation involved an angry but constructive dialogue with 'finger-pointing' & raised voices but ended amicably with a firm desire to rally behind Arteta & improve their performances in the Premier League. #Arsenal


Hooray we're going to win the league :D
One can only hope that the frank talking included some players being called out for not being good enough and/or having a stinking attitude

Let's be honest here - whether you'd rather see Wenger, Emery, Freddie, Arteta or someone else - the consistent theme is that some of these players have not been good enough for years. In some cases its pure ability, in some cases attitude, in some cases both.

I've been saying for years - we don't have a proper right back. Hector Bellerin is a converted winger who can't tackle or cross, and gets rinsed every time we play against a team with a half decent wide player. The alternatives there are AMN and Cedric - not good enough

From the 9 centre halves we have, who is truly good enough? Presumably Gabriel and then we're struggling......otherwise we wouldn't have spent 27m on Saliba who never plays anyway

Apart from Partey do we really have a holding midfielder that's good enough? No we don't and it has been seen ever since he got injured

Do we have a single creative midfielder worthy of the name? No

Apart from Auba, who thinks Lacazette or Eddie are ever going to make us top four contenders again up front?

These have been ongoing themes for years, and I hope this crisis finally makes the latest manager take drastic action. The only players I see in the squad that are even top six standard are Leno, Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, Saka, Martinelli, Auba. Then there's a secondary list of players who might be good enough one day or haven't had time yet to prove otherwise- Saliba, Mari, Smith Rowe......some might say AMN, Willock, Nelson but to be honest I have my doubts on those three

Every other player wasn't good enough under the previous managers, won't be good enough under this one, and won't be good enough under the next one either. Every appearance they make is a wasted one - what on earth are we going to find out about them that hasn't been seen dozens of times before. Unless the owner and manager buy in to a plan that sweeps all of these c.unts out the door then I'm afraid Arsene's cosy club culture will continue for years to come. This is a group of players who have been sucking the managers's cock since he arrived and who threw the previous one under the bus.......and for all that "buy in" and massive hardons all round about how detailed the training is......they've given us our worst start to a league season in almost 40 years

Get rid of dozens - this window and next. If clubs won't pay a fee, fuck them off for free. If their contracts are an issue, let them rot in the stiffs with Ozil and bring youngsters through instead who are worthy of a chance. I'll be watching the window with interest, more to see which Grade A c.unts we're going to get rid of than anything else

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Good post SteveO, but I'd just add I'm going to stick up a little for both Emery and Arteta for once, the problem with the dross like Xhaka, Mustafi etc etc is if we can see how bad they are then surely so can everyone else in the football world which makes it incredibly difficult to shift them. To elaborate a little, the reason I dont blame Arteta and even less so Emery for us being stuck with them is money or more specifically those controlling the money.

Whether we believe that those Managers were wanting rid of at least some of those players or not, the financiers at the club in no way shape or form would be willing to take the hits necessary for us to be shot of them, just the two players mentioned above cost £65-70M and I'm not sure you would get even half of that for the pair, add in a few others we paid over the odds for and whom we may take a loss on and it is a significant amount of money to write off, can anyone honestly say from a business point of view that they think Wiggy and Son would countenance that :rubchin:

Managers can say what they like but in modern football in terms of finances they have a much smaller say than we think, they can make all the demands they want, make the threats they want but if the bean counters say no then the Managers have two choices, shut up or quit and let's be honest most managers are egotistical and think they can make the best of a bad situation :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:16 am
Good post SteveO, but I'd just add I'm going to stick up a little for both Emery and Arteta for once, the problem with the dross like Xhaka, Mustafi etc etc is if we can see how bad they are then surely so can everyone else in the football world which makes it incredibly difficult to shift them. To elaborate a little, the reason I dont blame Arteta and even less so Emery for us being stuck with them is money or more specifically those controlling the money.

Whether we believe that those Managers were wanting rid of at least some of those players or not, the financiers at the club in no way shape or form would be willing to take the hits necessary for us to be shot of them, just the two players mentioned above cost £65-70M and I'm not sure you would get even half of that for the pair, add in a few others we paid over the odds for and whom we may take a loss on and it is a significant amount of money to write off, can anyone honestly say from a business point of view that they think Wiggy and Son would countenance that :rubchin:

Managers can say what they like but in modern football in terms of finances they have a much smaller say than we think, they can make all the demands they want, make the threats they want but if the bean counters say no then the Managers have two choices, shut up or quit and let's be honest most managers are egotistical and think they can make the best of a bad situation :wink:
Fair points mate, I get it - shifting this bunch isn't easy. The only thing I would say from a business perspective though is we're NEVER going to get any decent money for them. Take Xhaka and Mustafi - do we honest believe anyone would be daft enough to pay more than £10m-£15m for either of them? That isn't going to look any better the older they get and the closer they get to their contracts expiring.......so surely even £5m-£10m now and more importantly getting their wages off the payroll and their general uselessness out of the door, must be worth it? Does Kroenke senior or junior, or any of the board truly think there is some sort of value coming back from these clowns? Pepe would be another case in point - the money has already been wasted. Holding him here for another 5 years isn't going to improve his resale value and he's just cluttering up another squad place

I think its more of a 'pride' issue. Nobody wants to say "we paid €72m for this guy and then sold him for €20m, 2 years later"......I get that. But keeping him only works if you suddenly think he's going to improve or be sold for more, and the two kind of go hand in hand. The damage was already done when we overpaid for some of these c.unts.......I can't see what holding on to them does from either a morale, quality or business perspective

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Redarmy »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:14 pm
GoonerMuzz wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:16 am
Good post SteveO, but I'd just add I'm going to stick up a little for both Emery and Arteta for once, the problem with the dross like Xhaka, Mustafi etc etc is if we can see how bad they are then surely so can everyone else in the football world which makes it incredibly difficult to shift them. To elaborate a little, the reason I dont blame Arteta and even less so Emery for us being stuck with them is money or more specifically those controlling the money.

Whether we believe that those Managers were wanting rid of at least some of those players or not, the financiers at the club in no way shape or form would be willing to take the hits necessary for us to be shot of them, just the two players mentioned above cost £65-70M and I'm not sure you would get even half of that for the pair, add in a few others we paid over the odds for and whom we may take a loss on and it is a significant amount of money to write off, can anyone honestly say from a business point of view that they think Wiggy and Son would countenance that :rubchin:

Managers can say what they like but in modern football in terms of finances they have a much smaller say than we think, they can make all the demands they want, make the threats they want but if the bean counters say no then the Managers have two choices, shut up or quit and let's be honest most managers are egotistical and think they can make the best of a bad situation :wink:
Fair points mate, I get it - shifting this bunch isn't easy. The only thing I would say from a business perspective though is we're NEVER going to get any decent money for them. Take Xhaka and Mustafi - do we honest believe anyone would be daft enough to pay more than £10m-£15m for either of them? That isn't going to look any better the older they get and the closer they get to their contracts expiring.......so surely even £5m-£10m now and more importantly getting their wages off the payroll and their general uselessness out of the door, must be worth it? Does Kroenke senior or junior, or any of the board truly think there is some sort of value coming back from these clowns? Pepe would be another case in point - the money has already been wasted. Holding him here for another 5 years isn't going to improve his resale value and he's just cluttering up another squad place

I think its more of a 'pride' issue. Nobody wants to say "we paid €72m for this guy and then sold him for €20m, 2 years later"......I get that. But keeping him only works if you suddenly think he's going to improve or be sold for more, and the two kind of go hand in hand. The damage was already done when we overpaid for some of these c.unts.......I can't see what holding on to them does from either a morale, quality or business perspective
Wolves are taking the piss on Xaha defending against Traore, Ian Wright also stating his record of passes back to Gabriel
Rest assured the word is truly out on this useless piece of shit

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Retro Gunner »

augie wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:55 pm
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... id-future/

Not under pep's cone man he wont :roll:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... rtesacker/

Not to worry lads cos we have a midfield consisting of xhaka, ceballos and elneny (improved but still not good enough) :banghead: :banghead:

I've been saying it all along......if we don't re-instate Guendouzi (which we won't and he probably won't want to come back even if we want him to), he'll have an impressive career at a quality club and we'll be able to watch it from afar while Xhaka is still lumbering aimlessly in our midfield.

Plenty on here don't rate him. Time will tell who's right, but he's already a mile in front of the duffers we keep picking.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Retro Gunner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:24 am
mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:16 pm
According to @JamesOlley, #Arsenal's players exchanged angry words with each other in a clear-the-air meeting after manager Mikel Arteta called the squad together to identify reasons behind their poor start to the season. https://t.co/QVR3QYxVs9

Arteta sought to rally his players and invited a frank exchange of views while also informing them he is continuing to investigate the source of leaks that led to a training ground bust-up between Dani Ceballos & David Luiz becoming public. #Arsenal

Once this first meeting was concluded, the coaching staff left but the players stayed behind to hold an impromptu second discussion by themselves which has been described by multiple sources as 'stormy' & 'intense'.

Sources claim this second conversation involved an angry but constructive dialogue with 'finger-pointing' & raised voices but ended amicably with a firm desire to rally behind Arteta & improve their performances in the Premier League. #Arsenal


Hooray we're going to win the league :D
One can only hope that the frank talking included some players being called out for not being good enough and/or having a stinking attitude

Let's be honest here - whether you'd rather see Wenger, Emery, Freddie, Arteta or someone else - the consistent theme is that some of these players have not been good enough for years. In some cases its pure ability, in some cases attitude, in some cases both.

I've been saying for years - we don't have a proper right back. Hector Bellerin is a converted winger who can't tackle or cross, and gets rinsed every time we play against a team with a half decent wide player. The alternatives there are AMN and Cedric - not good enough

From the 9 centre halves we have, who is truly good enough? Presumably Gabriel and then we're struggling......otherwise we wouldn't have spent 27m on Saliba who never plays anyway

Apart from Partey do we really have a holding midfielder that's good enough? No we don't and it has been seen ever since he got injured

Do we have a single creative midfielder worthy of the name? No

Apart from Auba, who thinks Lacazette or Eddie are ever going to make us top four contenders again up front?

These have been ongoing themes for years, and I hope this crisis finally makes the latest manager take drastic action. The only players I see in the squad that are even top six standard are Leno, Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, Saka, Martinelli, Auba. Then there's a secondary list of players who might be good enough one day or haven't had time yet to prove otherwise- Saliba, Mari, Smith Rowe......some might say AMN, Willock, Nelson but to be honest I have my doubts on those three

Every other player wasn't good enough under the previous managers, won't be good enough under this one, and won't be good enough under the next one either. Every appearance they make is a wasted one - what on earth are we going to find out about them that hasn't been seen dozens of times before. Unless the owner and manager buy in to a plan that sweeps all of these c.unts out the door then I'm afraid Arsene's cosy club culture will continue for years to come. This is a group of players who have been sucking the managers's cock since he arrived and who threw the previous one under the bus.......and for all that "buy in" and massive hardons all round about how detailed the training is......they've given us our worst start to a league season in almost 40 years

Get rid of dozens - this window and next. If clubs won't pay a fee, fuck them off for free. If their contracts are an issue, let them rot in the stiffs with Ozil and bring youngsters through instead who are worthy of a chance. I'll be watching the window with interest, more to see which Grade A c.unts we're going to get rid of than anything else


Bang on from SteveO. Cracking post.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Retro Gunner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:14 pm
GoonerMuzz wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:16 am
Good post SteveO, but I'd just add I'm going to stick up a little for both Emery and Arteta for once, the problem with the dross like Xhaka, Mustafi etc etc is if we can see how bad they are then surely so can everyone else in the football world which makes it incredibly difficult to shift them. To elaborate a little, the reason I dont blame Arteta and even less so Emery for us being stuck with them is money or more specifically those controlling the money.

Whether we believe that those Managers were wanting rid of at least some of those players or not, the financiers at the club in no way shape or form would be willing to take the hits necessary for us to be shot of them, just the two players mentioned above cost £65-70M and I'm not sure you would get even half of that for the pair, add in a few others we paid over the odds for and whom we may take a loss on and it is a significant amount of money to write off, can anyone honestly say from a business point of view that they think Wiggy and Son would countenance that :rubchin:

Managers can say what they like but in modern football in terms of finances they have a much smaller say than we think, they can make all the demands they want, make the threats they want but if the bean counters say no then the Managers have two choices, shut up or quit and let's be honest most managers are egotistical and think they can make the best of a bad situation :wink:
Fair points mate, I get it - shifting this bunch isn't easy. The only thing I would say from a business perspective though is we're NEVER going to get any decent money for them. Take Xhaka and Mustafi - do we honest believe anyone would be daft enough to pay more than £10m-£15m for either of them? That isn't going to look any better the older they get and the closer they get to their contracts expiring.......so surely even £5m-£10m now and more importantly getting their wages off the payroll and their general uselessness out of the door, must be worth it? Does Kroenke senior or junior, or any of the board truly think there is some sort of value coming back from these clowns? Pepe would be another case in point - the money has already been wasted. Holding him here for another 5 years isn't going to improve his resale value and he's just cluttering up another squad place

I think its more of a 'pride' issue. Nobody wants to say "we paid €72m for this guy and then sold him for €20m, 2 years later"......I get that. But keeping him only works if you suddenly think he's going to improve or be sold for more, and the two kind of go hand in hand. The damage was already done when we overpaid for some of these c.unts.......I can't see what holding on to them does from either a morale, quality or business perspective


I agree with SteveO that regardless of the financial fuck up in signing these duffers for the fee involved and the money they're on, keeping them when it's clear that they're utter crap, does nothing but compound the mistake. As he says, the investment losses more value the longer we keep them.

The other big issue here Muzz, is that our recent managers haven't been forced to pick the likes of these clowns and that's especially true in Xhaka's case. He's clearly the first centre mid name on the team sheet, even when there's been 5 or 6 to choose from, including the likes of Torreira and Guendouzi.

The fact that Xhaka and Mustafi should never have been bought and have an atrocious re-sale value, doesn't mean we have to play them. Fuck them off on a free if needs be and at least save their wages. If they wont leave, then freeze the fuckers out. We've done it with Ozil (and no complaints from me) and from a purely football point of view, these mugs aren't fit to lace his boots.

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