Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
9
9%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
27
27%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
20
20%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
44
44%
 
Total votes: 100

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Arsenal Till I Die
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Arsenal Till I Die »

What bugs me the most is that it's the same game, every game.

Usually on the back foot, have a good 10 mins but do sod all with it, might take the lead/might not, the lack of in-game management shows and we fall apart.

As mediocre as some/most of these players are, they should be around 6th at least. How anyone can simply say "Arteta doesn't have the players he wants," when Emery's squad was worse and he got 5th and a EL final (and nearly got 4th), is beyond me.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by arrgee »

Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:24 pm
As mediocre as some/most of these players are, they should be around 6th at least. How anyone can simply say "Arteta doesn't have the players he wants," when Emery's squad was worse and he got 5th and a EL final (and nearly got 4th), is beyond me.
With many of these players and their attitude, 10th is better than they deserve. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up in 12th. But for the likes of Tierney, Smith Rowe and Saka they would be worse off. Those three and Martinelli aside, there are too many old pros coasting. They are living on their reputations. I doubt Leeds would swap Bamford for any of the Arsenal strikers. There are a few players who aren’t good enough to be in a top 6 team.

This has shades of 1985/1986 where the likes of Anderson, Sansom, Nicholas, Williams, Woodcock and Mariner were coasting under Don Howe’s management. Fortunately, there were a lot of good youngsters coming through who within a couple of years made their mark allied to some shrewd signings by George Graham. And two or three of the more experienced players upped their game when Graham arrived.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by StuartL »

arrgee wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:24 pm
As mediocre as 4some/most of these players are, they should be around 6th at least. How anyone can simply say "Arteta doesn't have the players he wants," when Emery's squad was worse and he got 5th and a EL final (and nearly got 4th), is beyond me.
With many of these players and their attitude, 10th is better than they deserve. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up in 12th. But for the likes of Tierney, Smith Rowe and Saka they would be worse off. Those three and Martinelli aside, there are too many old pros coasting. They are living on their reputations. I doubt Leeds would swap Bamford for any of the Arsenal strikers. There are a few players who aren’t good enough to be in a top 6 team.

This has shades of 1985/1986 where the likes of Anderson, Sansom, Nicholas, Williams, Woodcock and Mariner were coasting under Don Howe’s management. Fortunately, there were a lot of good youngsters coming through who within a couple of years made their mark allied to some shrewd signings by George Graham. And two or three of the more experienced players upped their game when Graham arrived.
That’s a good comparison Arrgee, that group of players under Howe had ability, no doubt, and on their day could still beat virtually anyone but they no longer had the passion and the graft that is needed at the top level.
Happy to pick up their wages, play next week regardless of poor performances, leads to a terrible lassez faire attitude.

In the current team who really cares and busts a gut week in week out only 3 or 4 in my book.

If you compare our squad with Leicester, as an example, on paper we look better, but they work harder, are more of a team and somehow manage to sell key players and yet sign new ones who can slot into the team and they carry on.

It’s sad but we still need to shift about half the first team squad who are either not up to scratch or can’t be arsed to earn their substantial dosh

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

StuartL wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:55 pm
arrgee wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm
Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:24 pm
As mediocre as 4some/most of these players are, they should be around 6th at least. How anyone can simply say "Arteta doesn't have the players he wants," when Emery's squad was worse and he got 5th and a EL final (and nearly got 4th), is beyond me.
With many of these players and their attitude, 10th is better than they deserve. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up in 12th. But for the likes of Tierney, Smith Rowe and Saka they would be worse off. Those three and Martinelli aside, there are too many old pros coasting. They are living on their reputations. I doubt Leeds would swap Bamford for any of the Arsenal strikers. There are a few players who aren’t good enough to be in a top 6 team.

This has shades of 1985/1986 where the likes of Anderson, Sansom, Nicholas, Williams, Woodcock and Mariner were coasting under Don Howe’s management. Fortunately, there were a lot of good youngsters coming through who within a couple of years made their mark allied to some shrewd signings by George Graham. And two or three of the more experienced players upped their game when Graham arrived.
That’s a good comparison Arrgee, that group of players under Howe had ability, no doubt, and on their day could still beat virtually anyone but they no longer had the passion and the graft that is needed at the top level.
Happy to pick up their wages, play next week regardless of poor performances, leads to a terrible lassez faire attitude.

In the current team who really cares and busts a gut week in week out only 3 or 4 in my book.

If you compare our squad with Leicester, as an example, on paper we look better, but they work harder, are more of a team and somehow manage to sell key players and yet sign new ones who can slot into the team and they carry on.

It’s sad but we still need to shift about half the first team squad who are either not up to scratch or can’t be arsed to earn their substantial dosh
A great comparison. If you look at those players that were moved on from that era and who replaced them.....

Viv Anderson, European Cup winner punted for Lee Dixon signed from the Championship
Kenny Sansom, at the time England's most capped full back, punted for Winterburn signed from Wimbledon
Paul Mariner & Charlie Nicholas - UEFA Cup winner and supposed star man Charlie, punted for the likes of Alan Smith from Leicester and youngsters like Merson and Quinn, and Groves from Colchester

"Ahh.....but football's changed"

One thing that hasn't changed is that you need character and attitude to win football matches. This team has none - they're a bunch of freeloaders living a dream, picking up a wage packet. Partey gave up Atletico who challenge for La Liga and the Champions League on a regular basis. Why? One reason - dosh

Nobody in this team apart from the kids + Tierney bleeds like the fans do in defeat. Sadly back then we had GG who wouldn't tolerate it. Under this imposter there isn't a single consequence of failure if you're a senior pro

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by oaodan »

Football has changed a bit but not as much as Arteta wants it to.I thought we'd get beat last night after 15 minutes, by then Holding had found himself crossing from the right corner and Gabriel turned up twice in the left corner of their area in general play.Cedric turned up in the middle of midfield,we lost possession and they played it out to a guy with half a pitch to himself where Cedric shoulda been. A decent team punish u for that shit.Dunno why these guys want to reinvent the game, Liverpool won last year with decent goalie,good centre halves,fullbacks who play fullback, honest holding midfielders,pace on the wings etc. Fergie did it for years with same old formula,we had our glory years with same.Even Pep doesnt encourage what we seem to be trying. Xhaka dropping into left back and left back fucks off up the field, mad stuff unless u have the Dutch squad of the 70s and they wouldn't even try it.Might be making exscuses for some players who are lazy cnuts,but reckon many of them realise it is mad shit. Total football with shit footballers,recipe for disaster.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by OneBardGooner »

He is FAILING.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Nos89 »

Next 3 games will decide Arteta's future. We're playing two clubs in the bottom 3 and a second leg of the Europa League, our only opportunity for European football. Lose any of these 3 then I think the board will pull the trigger on Arteta, and still get rid of our "big" players in the summer.
Maximum points are a must as is a victory in the Europa League. Something these players are easily capable of achieving, but will they want to?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by TeeCee »

Sorry mate but Arteta is going nowhere, the club are right behind him and he could lose 5 out of the next 6 and they’ll still trust him with the summer transfer budget (£25m) and next season, at least up to Christmas, when as we’re lying in 10th - 12th place again, home crowds are peaking at 30,000 (when 60,000 are allowed in)......THEN they might pull the trigger!!

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Redarmy »

No smoke without fire...

Mikel Arteta 'facing Arsenal revolt after senior players express frustration at being blamed for team's woes'... while Spaniard's tactical prowess is also 'being questioned' with club in bottom half of the Premier League

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by BobbyPires7 »

Arteta is trying to do too much with this squad. Trying to get them to play in a tiki-taka fashion and to work hard for 90 minutes when they haven’t done for years. He had to be pragmatic with this squad. Which is what he seemed to be doing when we won the FA Cup. Play to our strengths up front and make the defence more solid.

He then had a fucking brain fart selling the best keeper we have had for over a decade, signing Luiz for another year and signing Willian for 3 years on huge money. 3 catastrophic decisions. He’s then introduced a totally different style of play from the start of the season and by the looks of it lost half of the dressing room.

Rank amateur.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by g88ner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:11 am
75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?
Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo :lol: what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion? :wink: :lol:

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

g88ner wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:21 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:11 am
75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?
Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo :lol: what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion? :wink: :lol:

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.
No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).

One thing I'll give him credit for - he speaks much better English and sounds so cool with his post match comments. We'd be in the CL places for sure if points were awarded for that. Look forward to another 75 occasions of hearing how our performance "is a long way off the standards required" - wonder how many games he'll need before it does hit that standard?

Just saying if we're judging managers by the same criteria then why hasn't this one gone after 75 games of performing worse than the last one? Oh yeah we won the cup that Wigan and Portsmouth won in recent years, and that Wenger himself won 7 times.

I think you're right in that there's only a slim chance he'll be sacked even if we do lose to Slavia or in the semi. I just don't see how we can fire one supposedly underperforming manager, but keep the other despite having a worse record. Still absolutely mystifies me - if it literally all is just down to the FA Cup then we might as well go and hire Harry Redknapp, Roberto Martinez, Louis van Gaal, Gianluca Vialli or Wenger himself !

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:37 am
g88ner wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:21 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:11 am
75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?
Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo :lol: what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion? :wink: :lol:

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.
No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).
Oh ffs mate. What a patronising statement. Honestly sometimes I wonder is there another forum you are on and you mix up the two! :D :wink:

You are implying that almost everyone on here was in favour of Arteta getting the job and that almost everyone was hailing him as doing a good job up until recently when you finally convinced us all that you were right all along.

Read back through the threads. No one that I can recall wanted him. And only sid and maybe one or two others were hailing him as a good manager accomplishing all those things you list as myths for any period at all after those improvements had ceased. And even those few are now firmly in the Arteta out camp. The vast majority saw through him within a few weeks.

Also most of those "myths" you list were facts at one point. We did have those improvements under him. But they should be viewed within context. They were very shortlived, most likely down to the new manager "bounce" rather than any ability he has, and I can't find anyone on here still quoting them as current improvements since that time. The the only person that keeps bringing them up is you!

The FA Cup win was brilliant and to talk it down is poor form, especially as in other threads you criticise managers that don't take the cup seriously. But also I don't recall anyone saying he should get the job with no consequences because he won the cup.

Like g88ner, I also don't get the constant Emery referencing. Emery was sacked because he was not good enough. He humiliated the club with that cup final loss to the chav, he had no plan, no system, the team under him in that second half of his last season were as bad if not worse than anything under Wenger and he bottled the easiest run in we've ever had.

The current idiot is as bad and in many ways worse and he too should be sacked. I don't know how many times everyone on here has to say that before you believe you are not the only one saying it! :lol: :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:37 am
g88ner wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:21 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:11 am
75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?
Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo :lol: what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion? :wink: :lol:

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.
No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).
Oh ffs mate. What a patronising statement. Honestly sometimes I wonder is there another forum you are on and you mix up the two! :D :wink:

You are implying that almost everyone on here was in favour of Arteta getting the job and that almost everyone was hailing him as doing a good job up until recently when you finally convinced us all that you were right all along.

Read back through the threads. No one that I can recall wanted him. And only sid and maybe one or two others were hailing him as a good manager accomplishing all those things you list as myths for any period at all after those improvements had ceased. And even those few are now firmly in the Arteta out camp. The vast majority saw through him within a few weeks.

Also most of those "myths" you list were facts at one point. We did have those improvements under him. But they should be viewed within context. They were very shortlived, most likely down to the new manager "bounce" rather than any ability he has, and I can't find anyone on here still quoting them as current improvements since that time. The the only person that keeps bringing them up is you!

The FA Cup win was brilliant and to talk it down is poor form, especially as in other threads you criticise managers that don't take the cup seriously. But also I don't recall anyone saying he should get the job with no consequences because he won the cup.

Like g88ner, I also don't get the constant Emery referencing. Emery was sacked because he was not good enough. He humiliated the club with that cup final loss to the chav, he had no plan, no system, the team under him in that second half of his last season were as bad if not worse than anything under Wenger and he bottled the easiest run in we've ever had.

The current idiot is as bad and in many ways worse and he too should be sacked. I don't know how many times everyone on here has to say that before you believe you ate not the only one saying it! :lol: :wink:
Fair enough. For the record, I've never talked down the cup win.....in fact, despite all my misgivings about him I reserved special praise for the difficult run we had to win that cup and some of the performances that went with it. My point about the cup is that for a club like us, is it really enough to cling to one FA cup win as the basis of a long term managerial future when lesser managers have won the cup too. Doesn't detract from the wins that were needed to win the cup

I still think there are elements of the media that need to wake up to these myths. I posted on here after last weekend that the lot on Sky were stunned that his first 50 PL games were worse than both Emery's first 50, and Wenger's last 50........I don't know what they've been watching all this time if its still a surprise

Anyway, I wouldn't want Emery back - never wanted him to start with. I just can't fucking stand seeing someone WORSE than him in the job.....it absolutely fucking kills me seeing us behave like Derby County taking a punt on Lampard and Rooney as managers. Like the vast majority of us, I just want the fucker gone tomorrow

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