Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
6
8%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
20
28%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
16
23%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
29
41%
 
Total votes: 71

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Perryashburtongroves wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
I can't imagine it's anyone other than ratface Ozil. Unless of course, he's on holiday again.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55023525
Such a non story as well - two players have training ground spat. Can't think of any team I've ever played in where a couple of lads haven't had a tear up in training, only to shake hands and have a pint together an hour later

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by rodders999 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Perryashburtongroves wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
I can't imagine it's anyone other than ratface Ozil. Unless of course, he's on holiday again.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55023525
Such a non story as well - two players have training ground spat. Can't think of any team I've ever played in where a couple of lads haven't had a tear up in training, only to shake hands and have a pint together an hour later
Exactly. Lost count the amount of times I saw players come to blows in training, a late tackle or blatant body check could spark a full on brawl. All forgotten about after training as any shit that went down was left on the pitch and lads didn’t even talk about it.

I used to love to see it happening because it was a sign that everyone was right on the edge at training and it would always produce a spark in the weekend performance that followed.

No doubt it’s the bug eyed bitch that’s leaking stuff from inside the club, hopefully come January we’ll finally rid ourselves of the fucking skid mark.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Presuming the Mancs beat West Brom tonight and West Ham pick up at least a point at Sheffield United, we'll be starting tomorrow's game in 13th place. After next weekend it will be a year since we sacked Emery.

Regardless of what you think of Dick, and I know most on here think he was useless, can we honestly say that the last year has been worth the upheavel? The FA Cup was a great moment and I will forever be thankful to Arteta for that, but my strong view is that we are further behind the top than we were when Emery left.

I will still give Arteta the same time that Emery was afforded so in my mind he has all of this season including the next transfer window to prove what he can do. Emery had 3 transfer windows and just under a year and a half. Fair ?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Perryashburtongroves wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
I can't imagine it's anyone other than ratface Ozil. Unless of course, he's on holiday again.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55023525
Such a non story as well - two players have training ground spat. Can't think of any team I've ever played in where a couple of lads haven't had a tear up in training, only to shake hands and have a pint together an hour later
Talk about scrapping the barrel for news to unsettle The Arsenal camp.
It's not Ozil's style to chat shit about training ground bust-ups. I'm just concerned that leaks from the training ground occur far too often since wenger left. Both Emery and Arteta have had to deal with this more than wenger did.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Nos89 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:32 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Perryashburtongroves wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
I can't imagine it's anyone other than ratface Ozil. Unless of course, he's on holiday again.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55023525
Such a non story as well - two players have training ground spat. Can't think of any team I've ever played in where a couple of lads haven't had a tear up in training, only to shake hands and have a pint together an hour later
Talk about scrapping the barrel for news to unsettle The Arsenal camp.
It's not Ozil's style to chat shit about training ground bust-ups. I'm just concerned that leaks from the training ground occur far too often since wenger left. Both Emery and Arteta have had to deal with this more than wenger did.
And this time it can't be Guendouzi either! Arteta is absolutely right to call out this snitching culture by the way

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Nos89
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:18 pm
Presuming the Mancs beat West Brom tonight and West Ham pick up at least a point at Sheffield United, we'll be starting tomorrow's game in 13th place. After next weekend it will be a year since we sacked Emery.

Regardless of what you think of Dick, and I know most on here think he was useless, can we honestly say that the last year has been worth the upheavel? The FA Cup was a great moment and I will forever be thankful to Arteta for that, but my strong view is that we are further behind the top than we were when Emery left.

I will still give Arteta the same time that Emery was afforded so in my mind he has all of this season including the next transfer window to prove what he can do. Emery had 3 transfer windows and just under a year and a half. Fair ?
For me, I will always measure Arteta's league record against Ancellotti's league record at Everton. That weekend in December was a pivotal moment in modern history of Arsenal Footbal Club. In my opinion Ancellotti should be at Arsenal and Arteta cutting his teeth with Everton. Looking at the the comparative squads ours is a lot stronger with experience and quality. Imagine what a powerhouse manager like ancellotti would have done with this squad. So far, Ancellotti league record is far superior to Arteta's. There in lies a problem. We have a rookie at the wheel, and that normally leads to someone ending up in a ditch.
We have a squad that is capable of being a top 4 team. An experienced manager like Ancellotti, Brendon Rodgers, and Mourinho would have this team challenging at the top. A lack of ambition by the board really screwed the club. As an example look at Lewis Hamiltons career, won a F1 world title at a young age 2008, didn't win it again for 6 years and has now claimed his 6th title in 7 years. We've gone too early with Arteta, who will develop into a top manager. A squad like ours needed an experienced manager to whip them into shape or ship them out.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Nos89 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:51 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:18 pm
Presuming the Mancs beat West Brom tonight and West Ham pick up at least a point at Sheffield United, we'll be starting tomorrow's game in 13th place. After next weekend it will be a year since we sacked Emery.

Regardless of what you think of Dick, and I know most on here think he was useless, can we honestly say that the last year has been worth the upheavel? The FA Cup was a great moment and I will forever be thankful to Arteta for that, but my strong view is that we are further behind the top than we were when Emery left.

I will still give Arteta the same time that Emery was afforded so in my mind he has all of this season including the next transfer window to prove what he can do. Emery had 3 transfer windows and just under a year and a half. Fair ?
For me, I will always measure Arteta's league record against Ancellotti's league record at Everton. That weekend in December was a pivotal moment in modern history of Arsenal Footbal Club. In my opinion Ancellotti should be at Arsenal and Arteta cutting his teeth with Everton. Looking at the the comparative squads ours is a lot stronger with experience and quality. Imagine what a powerhouse manager like ancellotti would have done with this squad. So far, Ancellotti league record is far superior to Arteta's. There in lies a problem. We have a rookie at the wheel, and that normally leads to someone ending up in a ditch.
We have a squad that is capable of being a top 4 team. An experienced manager like Ancellotti, Brendon Rodgers, and Mourinho would have this team challenging at the top. A lack of ambition by the board really screwed the club. As an example look at Lewis Hamiltons career, won a F1 world title at a young age 2008, didn't win it again for 6 years and has now claimed his 6th title in 7 years. We've gone too early with Arteta, who will develop into a top manager. A squad like ours needed an experienced manager to whip them into shape or ship them out.
Agree with almost all of that apart from saying that we have a squad capable of being a top 4 team. However, the reason why we don't have one of those in my opinion still rests with the manager. He has had 2 windows to follow on from the 3 that Dick had to rid the team of the 'never will be's' that clog up the squad. He has allowed us to accumulate 9 specialist centre halves, not including players like Xhaka, Kolasinac and Tierney who have been asked to play there on several occasions. He chose to spend the majority of his budget on Partey rather than a creator. He also chose to stick with what we have up front, and in my opinion Lacazette and Nketiah are going to spend this season being rotated consistently and disappointing throughout. He clearly doesn't rate Pepe, but rather than fuck him off back to France (even on loan), he dilly dallies with him and poxy Willian, who has been nothing short of being utterly fucking useless all season. They say he doesn't fit with our system.....isn't that the job of a manager, to accumulate players who can?

If he'd have carried on the slaughter of the squad that Emery started and fucked off Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny (yes ok, he has been alright this season) and also pissed off Lacazette who still had suitors, he could have raised another 50m+ and landed Aouar or another attacking option. Instead he has carried on with players who have dozens (in some cases hundreds) of chances to impress and failed every time. If Nketiah was that fucking good, he wouldn't have played second fiddle to Patrick Bamford in the Championship. Lacazette has been a disgrace and a total waste of space for ages. Out of the 9 centre halves, only Gabriel looks anywhere near being the real deal whilst 27m has gone on a lad who hasn't been near the squad. For those reasons, I don't think this squad is 'top 4' - but that is still down to the manager who could and should have been more proactive sorting out the imbalances during the window

Those defending Arteta last year took every opportunity to sneer at Ancelotti and for certain he had issues in the first few months - who wouldn't at Everton??? Probably the only club with a worse away record against the top six than us and without a trophy of any description for 25 years. Lets see how the two of them measure up with a full season each this year

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

I flip flop on the "writing us off, bigging us up" discussion, but the one thing I will keep saying is that our squad, as weak as it is, is at least as good (if not better) than the squads at the scum, at the chavs, and at manure and all those are being talked about in the quest for top 4 so why arent we ?? :? I too believe that a better manager would have us in the top 4, and I think he is getting off very lightly cos fans are focusing their ire on players and not him - some of those players (willian, laca and xhaka for example) are either players he brought in or players that he has installed as first choice since he joined, so their continued failings suggest an inability of the manager to recognise this. The tactics are his and his alone, and the man management of the players has been lauded by some, but imo will be proven to be a weakness that will cost us

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by northbank123 »

Augie you must be joking mate. Even if you view us as a half-decent defensive side, we have one good attacking player in Aubameyang. Pains me to type it out but here goes:

Kane and Son are quality, even squad players like Moura would walk into our team as the most creative player.

Werner will bag loads of goals, Pulisic is very good, and Ziyech and Havertz will both be somewhere between good and excellent.

We are playing the likes of Willock, Xhaka, Elneny and Willian week in week out.

Arteta is doing a poor job but our squad is very weak.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Redarmy »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:39 am
Nos89 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:32 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Perryashburtongroves wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 pm
I can't imagine it's anyone other than ratface Ozil. Unless of course, he's on holiday again.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/55023525
Such a non story as well - two players have training ground spat. Can't think of any team I've ever played in where a couple of lads haven't had a tear up in training, only to shake hands and have a pint together an hour later
Talk about scrapping the barrel for news to unsettle The Arsenal camp.
It's not Ozil's style to chat shit about training ground bust-ups. I'm just concerned that leaks from the training ground occur far too often since wenger left. Both Emery and Arteta have had to deal with this more than wenger did.
And this time it can't be Guendouzi either! Arteta is absolutely right to call out this snitching culture by the way
This poisonous and arrogant attitude still lingers in the club....Arteta too close to players, major issues not dealt with....management is a lonely job...he is lost

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Nos89
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:22 am
Nos89 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:51 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:18 pm
Presuming the Mancs beat West Brom tonight and West Ham pick up at least a point at Sheffield United, we'll be starting tomorrow's game in 13th place. After next weekend it will be a year since we sacked Emery.

Regardless of what you think of Dick, and I know most on here think he was useless, can we honestly say that the last year has been worth the upheavel? The FA Cup was a great moment and I will forever be thankful to Arteta for that, but my strong view is that we are further behind the top than we were when Emery left.

I will still give Arteta the same time that Emery was afforded so in my mind he has all of this season including the next transfer window to prove what he can do. Emery had 3 transfer windows and just under a year and a half. Fair ?
For me, I will always measure Arteta's league record against Ancellotti's league record at Everton. That weekend in December was a pivotal moment in modern history of Arsenal Footbal Club. In my opinion Ancellotti should be at Arsenal and Arteta cutting his teeth with Everton. Looking at the the comparative squads ours is a lot stronger with experience and quality. Imagine what a powerhouse manager like ancellotti would have done with this squad. So far, Ancellotti league record is far superior to Arteta's. There in lies a problem. We have a rookie at the wheel, and that normally leads to someone ending up in a ditch.
We have a squad that is capable of being a top 4 team. An experienced manager like Ancellotti, Brendon Rodgers, and Mourinho would have this team challenging at the top. A lack of ambition by the board really screwed the club. As an example look at Lewis Hamiltons career, won a F1 world title at a young age 2008, didn't win it again for 6 years and has now claimed his 6th title in 7 years. We've gone too early with Arteta, who will develop into a top manager. A squad like ours needed an experienced manager to whip them into shape or ship them out.
Agree with almost all of that apart from saying that we have a squad capable of being a top 4 team. However, the reason why we don't have one of those in my opinion still rests with the manager. He has had 2 windows to follow on from the 3 that Dick had to rid the team of the 'never will be's' that clog up the squad. He has allowed us to accumulate 9 specialist centre halves, not including players like Xhaka, Kolasinac and Tierney who have been asked to play there on several occasions. He chose to spend the majority of his budget on Partey rather than a creator. He also chose to stick with what we have up front, and in my opinion Lacazette and Nketiah are going to spend this season being rotated consistently and disappointing throughout. He clearly doesn't rate Pepe, but rather than fuck him off back to France (even on loan), he dilly dallies with him and poxy Willian, who has been nothing short of being utterly fucking useless all season. They say he doesn't fit with our system.....isn't that the job of a manager, to accumulate players who can?

If he'd have carried on the slaughter of the squad that Emery started and fucked off Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny (yes ok, he has been alright this season) and also pissed off Lacazette who still had suitors, he could have raised another 50m+ and landed Aouar or another attacking option. Instead he has carried on with players who have dozens (in some cases hundreds) of chances to impress and failed every time. If Nketiah was that fucking good, he wouldn't have played second fiddle to Patrick Bamford in the Championship. Lacazette has been a disgrace and a total waste of space for ages. Out of the 9 centre halves, only Gabriel looks anywhere near being the real deal whilst 27m has gone on a lad who hasn't been near the squad. For those reasons, I don't think this squad is 'top 4' - but that is still down to the manager who could and should have been more proactive sorting out the imbalances during the window

Those defending Arteta last year took every opportunity to sneer at Ancelotti and for certain he had issues in the first few months - who wouldn't at Everton??? Probably the only club with a worse away record against the top six than us and without a trophy of any description for 25 years. Lets see how the two of them measure up with a full season each this year
It seems obvious to say but I reckon the covid pandemic had a massive impact on getting rid of players. With the uncertainty of what was going on it may have persuaded players to sit tight in their homes rather that spend nights in hotels, moving families to new schools and new homes in different countries. In some cases, countries weren't allowing people to move during the pandemic. USA being one of them, a much touted destination for our number 10. A situation of better sticking to where you know you are "safe", rather than upheaval to another country. A mass exodus will more likely happen next summer, putting Arteta's plans back a whole year.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Retro Gunner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:22 am
Nos89 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:51 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:18 pm
Presuming the Mancs beat West Brom tonight and West Ham pick up at least a point at Sheffield United, we'll be starting tomorrow's game in 13th place. After next weekend it will be a year since we sacked Emery.

Regardless of what you think of Dick, and I know most on here think he was useless, can we honestly say that the last year has been worth the upheavel? The FA Cup was a great moment and I will forever be thankful to Arteta for that, but my strong view is that we are further behind the top than we were when Emery left.

I will still give Arteta the same time that Emery was afforded so in my mind he has all of this season including the next transfer window to prove what he can do. Emery had 3 transfer windows and just under a year and a half. Fair ?
For me, I will always measure Arteta's league record against Ancellotti's league record at Everton. That weekend in December was a pivotal moment in modern history of Arsenal Footbal Club. In my opinion Ancellotti should be at Arsenal and Arteta cutting his teeth with Everton. Looking at the the comparative squads ours is a lot stronger with experience and quality. Imagine what a powerhouse manager like ancellotti would have done with this squad. So far, Ancellotti league record is far superior to Arteta's. There in lies a problem. We have a rookie at the wheel, and that normally leads to someone ending up in a ditch.
We have a squad that is capable of being a top 4 team. An experienced manager like Ancellotti, Brendon Rodgers, and Mourinho would have this team challenging at the top. A lack of ambition by the board really screwed the club. As an example look at Lewis Hamiltons career, won a F1 world title at a young age 2008, didn't win it again for 6 years and has now claimed his 6th title in 7 years. We've gone too early with Arteta, who will develop into a top manager. A squad like ours needed an experienced manager to whip them into shape or ship them out.
Agree with almost all of that apart from saying that we have a squad capable of being a top 4 team. However, the reason why we don't have one of those in my opinion still rests with the manager. He has had 2 windows to follow on from the 3 that Dick had to rid the team of the 'never will be's' that clog up the squad. He has allowed us to accumulate 9 specialist centre halves, not including players like Xhaka, Kolasinac and Tierney who have been asked to play there on several occasions. He chose to spend the majority of his budget on Partey rather than a creator. He also chose to stick with what we have up front, and in my opinion Lacazette and Nketiah are going to spend this season being rotated consistently and disappointing throughout. He clearly doesn't rate Pepe, but rather than fuck him off back to France (even on loan), he dilly dallies with him and poxy Willian, who has been nothing short of being utterly fucking useless all season. They say he doesn't fit with our system.....isn't that the job of a manager, to accumulate players who can?

If he'd have carried on the slaughter of the squad that Emery started and fucked off Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny (yes ok, he has been alright this season) and also pissed off Lacazette who still had suitors, he could have raised another 50m+ and landed Aouar or another attacking option. Instead he has carried on with players who have dozens (in some cases hundreds) of chances to impress and failed every time. If Nketiah was that fucking good, he wouldn't have played second fiddle to Patrick Bamford in the Championship. Lacazette has been a disgrace and a total waste of space for ages. Out of the 9 centre halves, only Gabriel looks anywhere near being the real deal whilst 27m has gone on a lad who hasn't been near the squad. For those reasons, I don't think this squad is 'top 4' - but that is still down to the manager who could and should have been more proactive sorting out the imbalances during the window

Those defending Arteta last year took every opportunity to sneer at Ancelotti and for certain he had issues in the first few months - who wouldn't at Everton??? Probably the only club with a worse away record against the top six than us and without a trophy of any description for 25 years. Lets see how the two of them measure up with a full season each this year


Agree with both these posts. I wanted Ancelotti before we got Emery and we should definitely have gone for him after emery was sacked. In fact, we should have gone for him when Chelsea stupidly sacked him, which is when he was truly at his peak, but hey, we still had another 10 years of the Old Fraud to enjoy at that stage.

Regarding the quality of our squad, I've ended up pretty confused tbh and oscillate between thinking it's crap and thinking it's capable of a lot more than we're getting. In truth, a top quality manager would have this outfit performing a lot better than they are, even if top 4 might be a stretch.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

What it comes down to is experience. Like any management job in any industry all managers have a golden era where they are still highly motivated but also have accumulated the skills and the experience required to get the best results from the people that work for them.

GG was in his golden era with us - as was Wenger for the first 10 years.

Arteta simply does not have the practical experience to get the best from these players. He doesn't have the savy and street smarts that years of experience give you.

Yes the squad is not strong, but I agree with augie we have many players that are better than the scum players but the scum have a manager with experience in Moron-hio. A busted flush past his best no doubt, but with enough miles under the hood to get more from his scum players than an inexperienced manager would.

Arteta may go on to become a great manager, who knows. But right now he is a novice. And the job is too big for him.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Retro Gunner »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:54 pm
What it comes down to is experience. Like any management job in any industry all managers have a golden era where they are still highly motivated but also have accumulated the skills and the experience required to get the best results from the people that work for them.

GG was in his golden era with us - as was Wenger for the first 10 years.

Arteta simply does not have the practical experience to get the best from these players. He doesn't have the savy and street smarts that years of experience give you.

Yes the squad is not strong, but I agree with augie we have many players that are better than the scum players but the scum have a manager with experience in Moron-hio. A busted flush past his best no doubt, but with enough miles under the hood to get more from his scum players than an inexperienced manager would.

Arteta may go on to become a great manager, who knows. But right now he is a novice. And the job is too big for him.

Is that a long winded version of my second paragraph in the post above ? :rubchin:

:D :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:54 pm
What it comes down to is experience. Like any management job in any industry all managers have a golden era where they are still highly motivated but also have accumulated the skills and the experience required to get the best results from the people that work for them.

GG was in his golden era with us - as was Wenger for the first 10 years.

Arteta simply does not have the practical experience to get the best from these players. He doesn't have the savy and street smarts that years of experience give you.

Yes the squad is not strong, but I agree with augie we have many players that are better than the scum players but the scum have a manager with experience in Moron-hio. A busted flush past his best no doubt, but with enough miles under the hood to get more from his scum players than an inexperienced manager would.

Arteta may go on to become a great manager, who knows. But right now he is a novice. And the job is too big for him.
Wenger was a genius for us in his late 40s to early 50s. Look at Klopp and Pep's prime years and a host of other managers including Maureen. Like you say - experienced enough to manage certain situations effectively from the experienced gained, but still hungry enough to strive for more. Perhaps if Arteta had served a 10 year apprenticeship like Wenger, he could be a decent Arsenal manager but right now...not a chance

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