CoronaVirus / Adolf Putin / The Apocalypse etc

[Gunner Rob]

You obviously haven’t read what I said about lockdown Rob, the one thing I am disputing about the last few posts you have made that is inaccurate is suggesting that a short lockdown prevents recessions.

New Zealand whilst being a model for lockdown, isn’t on the doorstep of a large continent. Nor is it an international hub for business. It didn't lock down for only four weeks either.

Lockdown as an instrument needs to be used in a different way, depending on the behaviour of the population. Taiwan didn't need to fully lockdown because they had a compliant population who wore masks immediately amongst other things, when the outbreak began in Wuhan. New Zealand is also like Australia in the middle of summer, the risk of infection spread is much lower over there as respiratory diseases generally thrive in winter months.

You also have an inability to accept things would be just as bad under a Labour govt. If you think Boris is a ditherer, Corbyn wouldnt have the balls to tell people what to do. He couldn't even control his own party remember. The anti maskers/vaxxers would have a field day. I suspect Starmer may be more decisive but he wouldn't be PM would he if Labour won the General Election.

you realise that despite spending £23 billion on a test and trace system we currently have the highest death rate from COVID in the world ?
anyone thinking that things would be just as bad under anyone else is totally deluded.

What's that got to do with a discussion about the economy? No one disputes Test and Trace has been a farce but remember Labour bankrupted the economy the last time they were in power. You are soo politically biased when it comes to Brexit or COVID it's not true.

Clueless Corbyn would have presided over just as many deaths as Bungling Boris, they are both Libertarians at heart. Strong leadership is not a quality of either of them.

The Test and Trace system has got everything to do with the economy - until it works better we can't fully reopen up our economy.
Boris has gambled everything on the vaccine and today we are starting to see delays.

Realistically if you just gamble everything on the vaccine then restrictions here in the UK are unlikely to be lifted very much before June, which will be a disaster for many businesses.

I am not sure why you keep going on about the Labour party and Corbyn. Labour are not in power and Corbyn is (thankfully) long gone.
This is all on the Tories and they need to be held to account far more than they have been.
To say things might have been worse under Labour is quite frankly pathetic.

Test and Trace only works if you have a compliant population, it's just a tad naive to expect one measure to dig us out of this hole.

Open your eyes and look all over Social Media it's not only full of conspiracists but also scientists that are against the principle of lockdown. Michael Yeadon, former Pfizer executive has relentlessly been tweeting since the pandemic began and has thousands of followers. Can you not appreciate how dangerous it is to have someone so well qualified, go against the company who is supposed to get us out of the shit with their vaccine?

The Germans got Test and Trace set up pretty early in the first wave, and now they are relying on a superior healthcare system to save lives because their population has had enough of lockdown. There are widescale protests against it across the country. The Asians, having experience of dealing with previous outbreaks of a similar virus have through compliance of their people combined with technology kept deaths down to a minimum. COVID severity is also down to lifestyle. The Japanese eat a shed ton of seafood, full of vitamin D. Some scientists have suggested that this may one reason they have a fraction of the deaths. Here in the UK we are more likely to go down the pub than into a sushi bar.

Clummo is right, for all the failings of the Govt. this is down to the people now. When Boris offered us all 3 household gatherings at Christmas why did people not come to a consensus with their families that just for one year it wouldn't be a good idea to get together. I will tell you, pure selfishness and not having the ability to see further than their own life bubbles. It was so fucking obvious the death rate would shoot up.

I have been slammed on this thread for having a go at the Conservatives, but by the same token would Labour have honestly done any better. And I have never seen you say anything negative about Corbyn on the Brexit thread, ever. So to hear you say you are glad that he has gone now, blows my mind. To me it's ideology over individual principles. Thats why I think that Corbyn would have presided over just as bad a shit shower as Boris. And I didn't say things would be worse, no one knows for sure. We can only base our opinions on form.

I was always against Brexit yes, but that doesn't mean I ever supported Corbyn.
He was the worst leader that the Labour party ever had.
Again not sure what that's got to do with this thread. The Conservatives are in power and they continue to make mistake after mistake.
With currently the highest death rate in the world I think it is fair to suggest that just about anyone could be doing a better job than them at the moment.

To blame the people you have to ask why are our people so much worse than anyone else?
And it comes back down to the rules. I actually think most people are following the rules, it is just that the rules are far too soft.
Why are so many kids still going to school when they are supposed to be closed?
Why are so many people travelling to work still?
Why are cafes, garden centres open still?

A half hearted lockdown is no good for anyone.
1. it will mean a much longer lockdown is required
2. it will destroy the economy

[Gunner Rob]

The reasons we are in this second wave; which has now become worse than the initial wave & Covid Lockdown is a combination of things:

If Boris the Bungler, Cove the inspidCunt & Co had done their job properly and acted straight away, as in when they Knew 100% that the virus which had already ravaged large swathes of ares in China, was doing the same in Italy & Spain and fast heading out across Europe, it could have been reduced (not stopped) at that point in time, which in turn would have given more time to the NHS and every other medical agency to gear up with adequate PPE etc
STOPPED people entering and leaving the country Full Stop - No Excuses.

Had the same rules apply to all of the UK, instead of decisions etc being left to the (so called) leaders of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so that everyone was clear what they could and could not do. (The confusion in this has contributed greatly to the pandemic not being reduced)

Also as a back-up measure kept the Field Hospitals should have been kept in place for the likelihood of the second wave.

The Lock-down restrictions should have been more severe from the get go, with the police given clearer guidelines AND the power and measures to deal with and actually arrest & detain any fuckker not obeying them as well as huge fines likely to put them in poverty for the rest of their natural - all these fuckking SCUMBAG IDIOTS who have flouted the law at every opportunity might have thought twice about having a house party or going to the beach etc

It is a combination of very bad government and allowing people who have little or no sense or consideration for anyone else, other than themselves to be entrusted to their own Common Sense; which as we all know is something that only few people have these days.

If necessary; which it now looks like would have been the correct decision: Boris the Bungler should have put Martial Law in place. So forget all these stupid twatts being allowed to 'Go for a Jog with the Dog' and taking a family stroll through the park with the dog NOT on the leash and Cove theCUNT whimpering on 'Please Use Common Sense' directives, far fewer people would now be Dead, their Loved Ones grieving and perhaps even Businesses being able to be in a more stable position to operate.

Bad Government and Selfish Idiotic Cunnts are the two main reasons People are still dying at such high numbers every friggin day.

this is a better post.
anyway no point looking back, got to look to the future.

the thing that is concerning me at the moment is that the government is following the wrong strategy and has been from the start.
we are trying to mitigate the virus not eliminate it.

the vaccine might not be the answer everyone thought that it would be.
it is unlikely to stop transmission and so ultimately it will keep coming back and potentially in more severe forms.
it is no coincidence that we have had a mutation here and that Brazil have also had one. (2 of the worse performing countries)
you get mutations in countries where transmission is high, and it might render the vaccines useless.

the right wing media will continue to push for things to open up again, but all this will mean is that we will have to lockdown again at some point!
surely that is obvious by now! the current lockdown MUST get tougher, otherwise for us here in the UK, all we will get is a slight easing of restrictions in the summer, and another lockdown next winter.

[the playing mantis]

The reasons we are in this second wave; which has now become worse than the initial wave & Covid Lockdown is a combination of things:

If Boris the Bungler, Cove the inspidCunt & Co had done their job properly and acted straight away, as in when they Knew 100% that the virus which had already ravaged large swathes of ares in China, was doing the same in Italy & Spain and fast heading out across Europe, it could have been reduced (not stopped) at that point in time, which in turn would have given more time to the NHS and every other medical agency to gear up with adequate PPE etc
STOPPED people entering and leaving the country Full Stop - No Excuses.

Had the same rules apply to all of the UK, instead of decisions etc being left to the (so called) leaders of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so that everyone was clear what they could and could not do. (The confusion in this has contributed greatly to the pandemic not being reduced)

Also as a back-up measure kept the Field Hospitals should have been kept in place for the likelihood of the second wave.

The Lock-down restrictions should have been more severe from the get go, with the police given clearer guidelines AND the power and measures to deal with and actually arrest & detain any fuckker not obeying them as well as huge fines likely to put them in poverty for the rest of their natural - all these fuckking SCUMBAG IDIOTS who have flouted the law at every opportunity might have thought twice about having a house party or going to the beach etc

It is a combination of very bad government and allowing people who have little or no sense or consideration for anyone else, other than themselves to be entrusted to their own Common Sense; which as we all know is something that only few people have these days.

If necessary; which it now looks like would have been the correct decision: Boris the Bungler should have put Martial Law in place. So forget all these stupid twatts being allowed to 'Go for a Jog with the Dog' and taking a family stroll through the park with the dog NOT on the leash and Cove theCUNT whimpering on 'Please Use Common Sense' directives, far fewer people would now be Dead, their Loved Ones grieving and perhaps even Businesses being able to be in a more stable position to operate.

Bad Government and Selfish Idiotic Cunnts are the two main reasons People are still dying at such high numbers every friggin day.

i dont think any government of any color would dare impose Marshall law here. the idiots on social media (that seems to have a hugely unhealthy influence of driving the agenda) and the main stream media would absolutely destroy them and force them into resigning as would the opposition parties.

it would have helped but wouldn't have been allowed here even if bojo wanted it.

i disagree on the different rules in different nations dding to peoples confusion. its a disease that spread via close contact...its common sense what people should and shouldnt be doing, but people refuse to take personal responsibility these days and always have to blame someone else.

[Herd]

The economy has already been destroyed except for big business which is OK for Boris don't expect him to give a shit ,he is still getting paid and he's handing out billions of the tax payers money out to his friends and family in contracts just as he did as Mayor .
People are inches away from financial disaster including me so there's going to be major civil unrest if people cant start earning a dollar !
The so called lockdown is a myth anyway ,there are so many exceptions you can drive a truck through it .
Here in leafy Hampstead all the essential artisan bread and coffee shops are still doing a roaring trade ,so much so that the local pub has opened up a 2nd creperie stall next to the existing one and theres no shortage of rich punters looking to shell out over 7 quid for some crepe !
I wear a mask i carry hand santiser but I go where I want when I want and nobody stops me .
I pick my son up from his mums and take him to the Park or along the thames or on the heath 3 / 4 times a week and we have picnics out rain or shine and nobody bats an eyelid .
Regents Park is still full of people the dog walkers are still taking 15 plus dogs for a walk and the football pitches are operating they are even still playing touch rugby out there !
I avoid the tube buses are much quicker now , but I'm told and I see people going to work every day but because of the reduced time table trains are jam packed day after day .
Schools are partially open however my sons special school has closed because the staff didn't feels safe which i understand ,Autistic kids don't do social distancing and its schools here in London that have been the super spreader's of this virus .
The government is quite happy to kill off the weak with this virus so don't expect them to do much ,they and the NHS trusts killed of thousands of the poor who were a drain to the economy in the first wave but they need more .
They've done a great job in blaming the public for the second wave but there failure to act in closing the country to air traffic in January has screwed us pure and simple .
The problem is the Government wants those who have been hit hardest to pay for it ,small to mid size businesses and the poor good luck on that one !
This virus is going to roll on and on especially when they find out the vaccines aren't working so they might as well open back up and let everyone take their own risk.
I'm told that business are going to re open on the 30th despite the government lockdown they dnt have enough Police to enforce lockdown anyway !
I simply don't give a fuck about anyone or anything anymore except family and don't have any answers I will do anything to feed my family and myself and fuck the consequences.

[NickF]

The problem with marshall law is as soon as you end it the virus will spread. It is the fact that people can travel around the world that has helped it to spread.

As soon as you allow people to travel again you would be back to square one.

[Gunner Rob]

The problem with marshall law is as soon as you end it the virus will spread. It is the fact that people can travel around the world that has helped it to spread.

As soon as you allow people to travel again you would be back to square one.

Which is why you have to go for an elimination strategy.
There is no alternative if you want to ever go back to normal.

[Clummo99]

One of the points Rob makes is too many kids going to school when they're supposed to be closed. Again you can point to the attitude of the people. I live in a village of just 400 people. I know of two families that are sending their children to school. In one Mum is a dialysis nurse so is a keyworker but Dad has been furloghed so is at home all day. The other is a single Mum that sends her daughter to school for her "mental wellbeing" (more like she doesn't want to give up her ability to sit on the sofa all day watching TV).

If certain people want to find a way of bucking the system so to speak then they surely will.

Because she is Autistic and doesn't fully grasp the current situation we didn't send our daughter back to school last September, chosing to continue with home schooling.

Because of my health I've been shielding and we've been in virtual isolation since last March.

Some may say that's all a bit extreme but for me it's the responsible thing to do.

Me being a bit of a misanthrope probably plays a part in my attitude somewhere tbf.

[OneBardGooner]

The reasons we are in this second wave; which has now become worse than the initial wave & Covid Lockdown is a combination of things:

If Boris the Bungler, Cove the inspidCunt & Co had done their job properly and acted straight away, as in when they Knew 100% that the virus which had already ravaged large swathes of ares in China, was doing the same in Italy & Spain and fast heading out across Europe, it could have been reduced (not stopped) at that point in time, which in turn would have given more time to the NHS and every other medical agency to gear up with adequate PPE etc
STOPPED people entering and leaving the country Full Stop - No Excuses.

Had the same rules apply to all of the UK, instead of decisions etc being left to the (so called) leaders of Wales, Scotland and Ireland, so that everyone was clear what they could and could not do. (The confusion in this has contributed greatly to the pandemic not being reduced)

Also as a back-up measure kept the Field Hospitals should have been kept in place for the likelihood of the second wave.

The Lock-down restrictions should have been more severe from the get go, with the police given clearer guidelines AND the power and measures to deal with and actually arrest & detain any fuckker not obeying them as well as huge fines likely to put them in poverty for the rest of their natural - all these fuckking SCUMBAG IDIOTS who have flouted the law at every opportunity might have thought twice about having a house party or going to the beach etc

It is a combination of very bad government and allowing people who have little or no sense or consideration for anyone else, other than themselves to be entrusted to their own Common Sense; which as we all know is something that only few people have these days.

If necessary; which it now looks like would have been the correct decision: Boris the Bungler should have put Martial Law in place. So forget all these stupid twatts being allowed to 'Go for a Jog with the Dog' and taking a family stroll through the park with the dog NOT on the leash and Cove theCUNT whimpering on 'Please Use Common Sense' directives, far fewer people would now be Dead, their Loved Ones grieving and perhaps even Businesses being able to be in a more stable position to operate.

Bad Government and Selfish Idiotic Cunnts are the two main reasons People are still dying at such high numbers every friggin day.

i dont think any government of any color would dare impose Marshall law here. the idiots on social media (that seems to have a hugely unhealthy influence of driving the agenda) and the main stream media would absolutely destroy them and force them into resigning as would the opposition parties.

it would have helped but wouldn't have been allowed here even if bojo wanted it.

i disagree on the different rules in different nations dding to peoples confusion. its a disease that spread via close contact...its common sense what people should and shouldnt be doing, but people refuse to take personal responsibility these days and always have to blame someone else.

Exactly!The Majority just do Not have Common sense. They seem unable to grasp the FACT that this virus can Kill !...Until the idiots who don't / won't follow the rules actually lose someone they care about - They will carry on being the Dumb unconscious fuckks ignoring what is the best for Everyone.

[Gunner Rob]

Ok it is the accepted view then that there are loads and loads of particularly stupid and selfish people in the UK.
So therefore it is up to the government to set out stricter rules - they should be at least as tough as we saw last March.
Until we get people travelling around less then things will not improve.

Worth reminding as well that we are not now dealing with the same virus as last March - it has mutated and is much more transmissible.
Restrictions actually should be tougher than last March.

By the way Herd - if you completely open up again at the moment you will find you won't have a health service left - then the shit really starts

[OneBardGooner]

I am hoping and praying that the Vaccines WILL Work against all the variations. Viruses are 'intelligent' life forms and so can adapt and change in order to keep themselves alive and 'in the game' as it were.

But if a new variant or strain evolves that the new Vaccines cannot deal with, well then we really are up a creek without a paddle.


btw: I think if someone is caught purposefully breaking the Social Distancing rules; such as holding a house party etc. They should be placed at the very back of the queue to be vaccinated, that'll teach the cunnts. Had an 89yr old neighbour a few doors away, he did all the required shielding during the first major lock-down, he came out of shielding on governments advise, caught the new strain and is now in hospital fighting for his life; a decent, honest person who worked all his life well past retirement age, who may well have caught the virus because some cu.ntyprick decided they didn't think social distancing was necessary and so somewhere along the line and it got passed on etc.

[Nos89]

If the government were serious about lockdown they'd have shut the large supermarkets, where you can have up to 400 different household inside the same building with poor lighting and ventilation.
Never understood their desire to shut down the hospitality industry.
Schools allow keyworkers, which includes supermarket workers, to remain open for their children. Basically, if you are rich enough you can stay at home. Doubt there will be any concessions from the utility companies to support the country which is in lockdown.
Argue all you like, the last two lockdowns are farcical which few people seem to be observing other than those who can afford it, or those clinically vulnerable who are in fear of their lives.
The economy seems to be coping sufficiently well at the moment so it really isn't a major concern.
No large corporations are in danger of going bankrupt anytime soon.
No doubt when businesses open up again that have used the furloughed scheme will no doubt be charged with paying it back. That will be the long term affect to the economy.

[nut flush gooner]

I am hoping and praying that the Vaccines WILL Work against all the variations. Viruses are 'intelligent' life forms and so can adapt and change in order to keep themselves alive and 'in the game' as it were.

But if a new variant or strain evolves that the new Vaccines cannot deal with, well then we really are up a creek without a paddle.


btw: I think if someone is caught purposefully breaking the Social Distancing rules; such as holding a house party etc. They should be placed at the very back of the queue to be vaccinated, that'll teach the cunnts. Had an 89yr old neighbour a few doors away, he did all the required shielding during the first major lock-down, he came out of shielding on governments advise, caught the new strain and is now in hospital fighting for his life; a decent, honest person who worked all his life well past retirement age, who may well have caught the virus because some cu.ntyprick decided they didn't think social distancing was necessary and so somewhere along the line and it got passed on etc.

The mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) attack the spike protein of the virus. My understanding is a mutation of the virus won't make these jabs ineffective. Indeed with our ability to monitor mutations better than anywhere else in the world, we can issue our data to Pfizer who can modify the vaccine if required. There have already been some scientific studies looking at this.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tudy-shows

[nut flush gooner]

If the government were serious about lockdown they'd have shut the large supermarkets, where you can have up to 400 different household inside the same building with poor lighting and ventilation.
Never understood their desire to shut down the hospitality industry.
Schools allow keyworkers, which includes supermarket workers, to remain open for their children. Basically, if you are rich enough you can stay at home. Doubt there will be any concessions from the utility companies to support the country which is in lockdown.
Argue all you like, the last two lockdowns are farcical which few people seem to be observing other than those who can afford it, or those clinically vulnerable who are in fear of their lives.
The economy seems to be coping sufficiently well at the moment so it really isn't a major concern.
No large corporations are in danger of going bankrupt anytime soon.
No doubt when businesses open up again that have used the furloughed scheme will no doubt be charged with paying it back. That will be the long term affect to the economy.

Your right about shops, a Supermarket is a huge risk for contracting the virus. However, pubs and restaurants despite what the surveys say in this country are super spreading environments. It only takes one infected person in an enclosed, poorly ventilated environment to infect a lot of people over a short period of time.

Look at what they are doing in the US for the economy, there are lockdowns in areas where the virus is out of control, but the authorities are throwing a shed ton of money (more than 1trn USD) at everyone from the employed to the unemployed. When the virus does abate, its economy is expected to boom. That's why their stock market has been flying since last March. Look at their economy and you will see why, yes they have hospitality but they aren't reliant on it like we are, and they also have a very highly skilled workforce especially in areas like Biotech and Technology.

Taxes will go up, but the burden will fall on the rich.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Uncle Bill died today from covid, an absolute gentleman and an altruistic human being.

Have stopped drinking since new year but the Toni and I having a glass of wine and toasting the guy,just so sad we could not go and see him.

Such a lonely death.

Nutflush I didnt mean to sound a little tetchy with you, I appreciated your kindness, forgive my indiscretion.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Oh and one of my younger sisters has covid, she is a care worker and gets tested weekly, she feels ok just lost taste and feeling tired.

Worst thing she says is in isolation with her hubby lol.