CoronaVirus / Adolf Putin / The Apocalypse etc

[Arsenal Till I Die]

Safety possibly not but peace of mind definitely.
Nobody wants to spend their life looking over their shoulders wondering whether the people around you are as safe as they could be.
If there’s evidence that the risk is lower then more normality can return.

You could say that about any communicable illness, though.

[A11M11]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

[the playing mantis]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

[BobbyPires7]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

Seems pretty obvious to me. Using Covid vaccine passports will in time force people to be vaccinated. Once you aren’t allowed to go to nightclubs or on holiday or to sporting events unless you have been double jabbed then it may make you think twice. It was always going to be the way. A double vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting Covid individually. However the higher the percentage of the population that is double jabbed the less likely we will have huge amounts of seriously ill people. Presently the minority refusing the jab are going along for the freedom ride that has been allowed by the majority being double jabbed. Of course you have a right to avoid the vaccine. You don’t have the right to the freedoms afforded by those people trying to do the right thing. If every single citizen of the UK had refused the vaccine where would we be? This vaccine passport system is simply the carrot. The stick will come later.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

Seems pretty obvious to me. Using Covid vaccine passports will in time force people to be vaccinated. Once you aren’t allowed to go to nightclubs or on holiday or to sporting events unless you have been double jabbed then it may make you think twice. It was always going to be the way. A double vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting Covid individually. However the higher the percentage of the population that is double jabbed the less likely we will have huge amounts of seriously ill people. Presently the minority refusing the jab are going along for the freedom ride that has been allowed by the majority being double jabbed. Of course you have a right to avoid the vaccine. You don’t have the right to the freedoms afforded by those people trying to do the right thing. If every single citizen of the UK had refused the vaccine where would we be? This vaccine passport system is simply the carrot. The stick will come later.

Repugnant.

Make Orwell fiction again.

[GoonerMuzz]

As I said in my earlier post what about the roughly 5% of the population, approximately 3.25M people who the vaccine doesnt work for, add in the percentage of the population who cannot have the vaccine for various reasons, and you could be looking at up to 5M people in the UK, are you telling me that they should have their freedoms restricted? That could comes straight out a eugenics playbook for christs sake

As ATID said, the whole idea of vaccine passports is repulsive when not everyone can have and therefore benefit from the vaccine.

My concern also stems from the fact that even now 8 months down the line these vaccines are still on an emergency licence, why? If they are 100% tested in the same way as other vaccines then they should have been upgraded to a full licence by now, that's me quoting a microbiologist friend by the way who works for a different pharmaceutical company. The reason pharmaceuticals normally take so long to licence is because there are stringent rules on long terms effects being monitored hefore being issued something they have been unable to do with this due to the nature of covid. I want honesty from medics and politicians so people can make informed decisions not people being forced into a course of action so they can lead a 'normal' life

[StuartL]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

A country has the right to say who can and can’t enter - you will struggle to get into America if you have a criminal record of any sort.
If countries around the world impose a “COVID passport” in much the same way that you need a visa USA, Australia, Turkey, Russia etc, etc.

Pubs have the right to refuse service to people, to ban them , Airlines can and will have you arrested for misbehaving onboard.
If a restaurant or pub wants to set an entry requirement, of showing proof of having been double jabbed, I’m not sure their is a law against it.

I’ve got my Dad’s funeral on Friday, only 30 people in attendance, still many procedures in place, partly down to the fact that the crematorium cannot afford to have staff members off or be pinged to stay away, as they will not be able to function - there still remains a possibility of it not going ahead between today and Friday.

I’ve had my jabs, I’m glad I have some degree of protection, but I am well aware it does not make me invincible, so I am still being cautious.
“Freedom day” is completely the wrong spin on it, as the uneducated will think it means I no longer have to worry.

[augie]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

There is no such thing as full freedom - it is a myth created over the years, but it is used as a weapon at times like this when people want to oppose or protest against things. Do you have the right to say what you want ? No cos racism and threats are not covered under freedom of speech. Do you have the right to go where you want when you want ? No cos passports and visas are designed to stop that free movement. Are you allowed to drive a car without a licence if you believe you are a good enough driver ? No because you have to prove that you are less of a risk to other people behind the wheel than a person that doesnt have a licence, and that is what we are talking about here - if people want to take risks with their lives then that is 100% up to them, but no way should they be allowed put other peoples lives at risk. It is a selfish attitude that runs through modern society where people believe that they are entitled to everything regardless of circumstances, and regardless of other people - these are people who were concerned enough to take the vaccine in the first place, and their feelings should not be dismissed as irrelevant imo.

Can I say again, that I'm not sure that I buy into how safe and dependable these vaccines are, and I honestly would rather not to have needed to take the vaccine - the fact that this situation looks like being never ending (with booster jabs every 6 months or so) also doesnt boost my confidence in the set up. Reality though is that I want the freedom to go places and I want other people to have those same freedoms, and the reality is that countries are only opening up internally because of the amount of people getting vaccinated. Getting the vaccine and the country opening back up is far preferable to not getting it cos of principles and seeing the country remain locked down

[augie]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

A country has the right to say who can and can’t enter - you will struggle to get into America if you have a criminal record of any sort.
If countries around the world impose a “COVID passport” in much the same way that you need a visa USA, Australia, Turkey, Russia etc, etc.

Pubs have the right to refuse service to people, to ban them , Airlines can and will have you arrested for misbehaving onboard.
If a restaurant or pub wants to set an entry requirement, of showing proof of having been double jabbed, I’m not sure their is a law against it.

I’ve got my Dad’s funeral on Friday, only 30 people in attendance, still many procedures in place, partly down to the fact that the crematorium cannot afford to have staff members off or be pinged to stay away, as they will not be able to function - there still remains a possibility of it not going ahead between today and Friday.

I’ve had my jabs, I’m glad I have some degree of protection, but I am well aware it does not make me invincible, so I am still being cautious.
“Freedom day” is completely the wrong spin on it, as the uneducated will think it means I no longer have to worry.

Condolences to you and your family on your Dad's passing Stuart

[the playing mantis]

So sorry to heat that Stu. All the best.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

You could but not many put you in a coma with a ventilator unable to see relatives and at worse die alone .
The current problem is with the young who are not either partially or fully vaccinated.
Cases in hospital are going up and sadly the age at death is coming down.
Vaccines are a way to slow its progress and a certified confirmation of being vaccinated is the best way to protect the masses.

Given that you can still catch, and spread, the virus even if you're fully vaccinated, having "certified confirmation" means fuck all.

not at all, as the vaccine is 'meant' to reduce the likelihood of both despite not eliminating it definitely has merit. Assumimg the vaccine does what its meant to which at present it seems to be.

You're still not explaining the purpose of a vaccine passport. "Reducing the likelihood" still doesn't warrant the use of them, because vaccinated people with their "papers" can still get ill. Creating a society, in which "full liberty and freedom" (as banded by the media and Government) is dependant on a vaccine passport is redundant if the vaccinated can still get ill.

My point isn't against the vaccines, Isupport the use of vaccines as risk lowering measures. I don't support vaccine passports.

There is no such thing as full freedom - it is a myth created over the years, but it is used as a weapon at times like this when people want to oppose or protest against things. Do you have the right to say what you want ? No cos racism and threats are not covered under freedom of speech. Do you have the right to go where you want when you want ? No cos passports and visas are designed to stop that free movement. Are you allowed to drive a car without a licence if you believe you are a good enough driver ? No because you have to prove that you are less of a risk to other people behind the wheel than a person that doesnt have a licence, and that is what we are talking about here - if people want to take risks with their lives then that is 100% up to them, but no way should they be allowed put other peoples lives at risk. It is a selfish attitude that runs through modern society where people believe that they are entitled to everything regardless of circumstances, and regardless of other people - these are people who were concerned enough to take the vaccine in the first place, and their feelings should not be dismissed as irrelevant imo.

Can I say again, that I'm not sure that I buy into how safe and dependable these vaccines are, and I honestly would rather not to have needed to take the vaccine - the fact that this situation looks like being never ending (with booster jabs every 6 months or so) also doesnt boost my confidence in the set up. Reality though is that I want the freedom to go places and I want other people to have those same freedoms, and the reality is that countries are only opening up internally because of the amount of people getting vaccinated. Getting the vaccine and the country opening back up is far preferable to not getting it cos of principles and seeing the country remain locked down

Then we need to start providing "passports" (as in to get into Tesco or pub etc) and compulsory jabs for flu, viral pneumonia and other communicable illnesses; because you don't know what anyone has got. So, where do we draw the line? Someone mentioned above that "other communicable illnesses won't put you into a coma etc." Bollocks. A large majority of those who have caught, or will catch, Covid won't get more than the basic symptoms. I had Covid at the start last year, took my smell and taste away for a few days but as a 29 year old, reasonably healthy, man I didn't suffer too much. My parents got it Christmas 2019, before it had a name. They were ill for weeks. My mum felt rough until Feb, but she has TWO auto-immune issues. However, in 2017 viral pneumonia almost killed her. If she hadn't gone to the hospital when she did, I doubt she'd be here today. So, the point is you have NO idea what is out there and how it may effect you. So, where do we draw the line on requiring medical documentation to go out?

Again, I am not arguing against the vaccine. I don't care who wants it or who doesn't. I've had my first, waiting for my second. My issue is with the concept of needing "papers" to get into a pub, or restaurant etc, when the fully vaccinated can still easily get ill and spread Covid. If your (not specifically you augie) only argument is "safety" then that house of cards topples the moment a fully vaccinated passport holder gets ill.

Stuart - I'm sorry for your loss, my friend. Restrictions aside, I hope your old man has a great send off.

[DB10GOONER]

Stu, sincere condolences on your dad's passing, mate. Its a sad and tough thing to go through. I wish you and your loved ones well.

[gazzatt2]

condolences to you and your family Stu