As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Luiz never touched the player.
What is the point of VAR if it can’t pick that up?
What happened in the second half is irrelevant because the team were understandably stunned by the decision.
So, if we're on the end of another dodgy red card, the rest of the game and how we manage it is "irrelevant"???
Come on Rob. In every team, in every season there will be moments of adversity and decisions that go against you. You know that great teams with great leaders rise above it
How many players did we get sent off in the early days of Wenger? I think The Sun used to make a habit of counting the red cards. The difference back then was that there was always an Adams, Keown, Vieira, Petit, Winterburn, Dixon to roll the sleeves up and grind it out. That 98 team made a habit of getting players sent off - our discipline wasn't the greatest. However, I never thought the game was up with 10 men. If you're going to be a great side you need to get draws from these positions. That was a Wolves team bereft of any confidence which showed in the first half. There was still a point to be had in that second half but we took off our most in form striker and the only bloke capable of holding up the ball and relieving pressure. We gave ourselves no chance. And for everyone who thinks that being captain doesn't matter.......its not about who tosses a coin and shakes hands with the oppo captain. Its about the bloke everyone looks to for inspiration and leadership in situations like this. If anyone think Greta, Xhaka or anyone else out there tonight fits the bill, they need their heads tested
I rarely ever comment on red cards as most of the time you can see the reason for the sending off even if they are a bit dubious sometimes. The Luiz one tonight though is on another level.
Since the end of the match I see Mark Clattenburg has said the decision was wrong, John Terry! Has even been on Twitter saying the decision was a joke and Arteta has said that the club are likely to appeal.
What concerns me the most is how little time VAR took on the decision - if ever there was a decision to be reviewed again and again it was this one. I have yet to see any evidence of Luiz even touching the other player. It has to be borderline corruption.
An actual quote by @btsportfootball’s Peter Walton: “The idea of VAR is not to actually come to the correct decision
WTF does that even mean. Utter nonsense!
suppose it means the clear and obvious sound byte...maybe...so it only corrects big mistkaes not little ones...maybe? yet all evidence suggests differently depedning on which team is subject to it...scum and victims, anything in their favour however minor is looked at...us we have no hope
Accept the fuck up & move on. We played great early & could have bee 3 up then the crazy decision & Leno brain fade !!. The young keeper made a couple of decent saves then the pass that went for a corner. Needs to stick the Welly through the ball if in doubt !.
Luiz never touched the player.
What is the point of VAR if it can’t pick that up?
What happened in the second half is irrelevant because the team were understandably stunned by the decision.
So, if we're on the end of another dodgy red card, the rest of the game and how we manage it is "irrelevant"???
Come on Rob. In every team, in every season there will be moments of adversity and decisions that go against you. You know that great teams with great leaders rise above it
How many players did we get sent off in the early days of Wenger? I think The Sun used to make a habit of counting the red cards. The difference back then was that there was always an Adams, Keown, Vieira, Petit, Winterburn, Dixon to roll the sleeves up and grind it out. That 98 team made a habit of getting players sent off - our discipline wasn't the greatest. However, I never thought the game was up with 10 men. If you're going to be a great side you need to get draws from these positions. That was a Wolves team bereft of any confidence which showed in the first half. There was still a point to be had in that second half but we took off our most in form striker and the only bloke capable of holding up the ball and relieving pressure. We gave ourselves no chance. And for everyone who thinks that being captain doesn't matter.......its not about who tosses a coin and shakes hands with the oppo captain. Its about the bloke everyone looks to for inspiration and leadership in situations like this. If anyone think Greta, Xhaka or anyone else out there tonight fits the bill, they need their heads tested
I rarely ever comment on red cards as most of the time you can see the reason for the sending off even if they are a bit dubious sometimes. The Luiz one tonight though is on another level.
Since the end of the match I see Mark Clattenburg has said the decision was wrong, John Terry! Has even been on Twitter saying the decision was a joke and Arteta has said that the club are likely to appeal.
What concerns me the most is how little time VAR took on the decision - if ever there was a decision to be reviewed again and again it was this one. I have yet to see any evidence of Luiz even touching the other player. It has to be borderline corruption.
Luiz might as well ended the blokes career with a tackle as it would have been the same punishment,the same happened in the united game,Bednarek had the exact same incident with Martial,same result,Mike Dean was the ref there,football is finished,common sense is gone.it’s baffling
The double jeopardy rule is divided into two parts - 1. giving the benefit to a player who makes a genuine attempt to win the ball and 2. seriously punishing the player who makes no attempt to win it.
That way a player who mistimes a tackle by a fraction of a second, just missing the ball and bringing someone down doesn’t get the double punishment of a red card and a penalty, but the player who scythes someone down when going through on goal gets the maximum punishment of both.
It’s actually a very good rule but what happened tonight made a complete fucking abortion of it.
Because side show made no attempt to win the ball (because he did fuck all but run back) he gets put in the same category as the player who purposely cleans out the attacker going through.
They are taking the term “‘making no attempt to win the ball” and using it fucking literally when that was never the intention of the law.
Dragging someone down or hacking their ankles is what making no attempt to win the ball means, but they’ve now adjudged not making any challenge at all as “making no attempt to win the ball”.
That is taking the rule and applying completely fucked up logic to it. Because you haven’t done anything then you haven’t made an attempt to win the ball? Are you fucking kidding me?
The double jeopardy rule is divided into two parts - 1. giving the benefit to a player who makes a genuine attempt to win the ball and 2. seriously punishing the player who makes no attempt to win it.
That way a player who mistimes a tackle by a fraction of a second, just missing the ball and bringing someone down doesn’t get the double punishment of a red card and a penalty, but the player who scythes someone down when going through on goal gets the maximum punishment of both.
It’s actually a very good rule but what happened tonight made a complete fucking abortion of it.
Because side show made no attempt to win the ball (because he did fuck all but run back) he gets put in the same category as the player who purposely cleans out the attacker going through.
They are taking the term “‘making no attempt to win the ball” and using it fucking literally when that was never the intention of the law.
Dragging someone down or hacking their ankles is what making no attempt to win the ball means, but they’ve now adjudged not making any challenge at all as “making no attempt to win the ball”.
That is taking the rule and applying completely fucked up logic to it. Because you haven’t done anything then you haven’t made an attempt to win the ball? Are you fucking kidding me?
Absolutely ludicrous mate.
I did notice on MOTD that with the Bednarek sending off at least VAR sent the decision back to Martin Atkinson to look again on the pitch side monitor. Does that suggest the VAR official didn't entirely agree with the red card?
Unlike Luiz where VAR took all of 5 seconds to agree with the ref.
Been a hard one to swallow, probably best first half performance this season.
A couple of errors from players who had been performing well recently.
A missed opportunity to move above the scum.
Still feeling positive, although keeper situation a worry with leno our for 3 games.
And apologies to Augie, sorry lad.
Agreed Sid.....that first half wolves were totally bossed and they know it....some weak links agreed but Saka and Partey were great
Luiz never touched the player.
What is the point of VAR if it can’t pick that up?
What happened in the second half is irrelevant because the team were understandably stunned by the decision.
So, if we're on the end of another dodgy red card, the rest of the game and how we manage it is "irrelevant"???
Come on Rob. In every team, in every season there will be moments of adversity and decisions that go against you. You know that great teams with great leaders rise above it
How many players did we get sent off in the early days of Wenger? I think The Sun used to make a habit of counting the red cards. The difference back then was that there was always an Adams, Keown, Vieira, Petit, Winterburn, Dixon to roll the sleeves up and grind it out. That 98 team made a habit of getting players sent off - our discipline wasn't the greatest. However, I never thought the game was up with 10 men. If you're going to be a great side you need to get draws from these positions. That was a Wolves team bereft of any confidence which showed in the first half. There was still a point to be had in that second half but we took off our most in form striker and the only bloke capable of holding up the ball and relieving pressure. We gave ourselves no chance. And for everyone who thinks that being captain doesn't matter.......its not about who tosses a coin and shakes hands with the oppo captain. Its about the bloke everyone looks to for inspiration and leadership in situations like this. If anyone think Greta, Xhaka or anyone else out there tonight fits the bill, they need their heads tested
Agree with this Clummo, yes was sickening and like Arteta seen the replay of Luiz many times and i still believe no contact can be proved
as for the captains role, spot on regarding Bellerin...hes no leader have said same previously and had posters disagreeing
the players you quote Adams, Keown , Viera...etc....cannot be mentioned in same breath as Xaha and Belerin
An actual quote by @btsportfootball’s Peter Walton: “The idea of VAR is not to actually come to the correct decision
Peter Walton was practically orgasmic when stating that it was the right decision, and I think went so far as to be critical of luiz by stating it wasa his 4th red card for us and he'll never learn
I agree 100% with rodders when he says how flawed the rule is because you can see that luiz made no effort to tackle or foul him - how can a player be treated the same if he tried to break him up ? If they never brought in the double punishment rule then I think we would have all accepted it cos there was contact so automatically it would be red - the problem is (as always) the interpretation refs choose to put on these rules
An actual quote by @btsportfootball’s Peter Walton: “The idea of VAR is not to actually come to the correct decision
Peter Walton was practically orgasmic when stating that it was the right decision, and I think went so far as to be critical of luiz by stating it wasa his 4th red card for us and he'll never learn
I agree 100% with rodders when he says how flawed the rule is because you can see that luiz made no effort to tackle or foul him - how can a player be treated the same if he tried to break him up ? If they never brought in the double punishment rule then I think we would have all accepted it cos there was contact so automatically it would be red - the problem is (as always) the interpretation refs choose to put on these rules
If that happened to Ingerland in world cup or the bindippers in any match or against Moron in any match, there would be media campaigns to murder the ref and ban VAR. Let's also not forget that the ref added time on to the half for no reason at all in addition to the two minutes of injury time. I still reckon he blew for half-time and then pretended it was for the penalty. If you look at some of the reactions from the Wolves players, it seems as if they think he's already blown to end the half. Either way, we've been cheated yet again.
Just had a thought. A team being reduced to 9 men is a very rare occurance. Now two on the same night. Wonder what the odds on that were?
Kind of like the floodlights failing at Selhurst Park.
A wonderful opportunity to make some money if you were a South Asian betting ring.
I really would not be surprised if they were involved in some of the VAR decisions. Wasn't there a scandal involving throw-ins. a while back and suspicion about Bruce Grobbelaar. I wouldn't have thought the dodgy dealings have just disappeared.
An actual quote by @btsportfootball’s Peter Walton: “The idea of VAR is not to actually come to the correct decision
Peter Walton was practically orgasmic when stating that it was the right decision, and I think went so far as to be critical of luiz by stating it wasa his 4th red card for us and he'll never learn
I agree 100% with rodders when he says how flawed the rule is because you can see that luiz made no effort to tackle or foul him - how can a player be treated the same if he tried to break him up ? If they never brought in the double punishment rule then I think we would have all accepted it cos there was contact so automatically it would be red - the problem is (as always) the interpretation refs choose to put on these rules
And that's the most fucking infuriating thing about it Augie, that because he didn't attempt a challenge at all he's deemed to have committed the same offence as a player who crudely and cynically hauls someone down. Absolute bollocks.
And as has been mentioned on several match threads (including this one) the amount of crucial, match changing, VAR decisions involving us that are looked at and adjudicated upon in matter of seconds, with none of the minute level of scrutiny that is given to other incidents, is now becoming a common trend.
Fernandes rake down the back of Xhaka at the weekend was another one for instance. Cheats
An actual quote by @btsportfootball’s Peter Walton: “The idea of VAR is not to actually come to the correct decision
Well its good to have that confirmed.
Because it hardly ever comes to the fucking correct decision.
I've said it a million times it is not fit for purpose. All it "adds" is delays and extra stoppages. If it is going to get so many things wrong then I'd rather just go back to the referees with no VAR. I'd say their right/wrong decision ratio is probably about the same but with just the referees we avoid the soul killing delays AND the added insult of a system put in to get things right getting most decisions wrong.
