Following Arsenal in the early 80`s

[MK Gould]

I was reading a Cas Pennant book recently - not his best - but this particular game was mentioned by both the Luton and West Ham contributors as being one of the best they'd experienced.... I didn't realise until years later that the attacks in the Arsenal end were by West Ham not Luton. The skinhead girlfriend of a guy we were with was punched in the face at one stage....

[Topside Northbank]

York City was hilarious other than the result i was 14 went on the train with three of my mates who i spent all my teenage years going to Arsenal with.We were just kids but the train journey up there was a great laugh.

Does anyone remember the fella that got on the train tannoy & started announcing in a posh voice that if 'Arsenal went out of the cup this afternoon there would be a riot' the whole train was laughing.The older lot were all drinking & seemed well oiled remember the older lot coming round collecting a few coins off the other fans but they didn't ask us for any!

We were playing cards & my mate cleaned one of the other lads out so asked him if he could use his hat as £1 (the old Arsenal/Celtic ones) people of my age will remember them only too well!He got cleaned out again my mate asked if he could have his hat back but my mate chucked it out of the window my mate wasn't lucky with those hats he also had one stolen off his head against Luton!He had no luck that year something happened on a train journey from Oxford but ill save that one!

Anyway we went out of the cup that afternoon last minute penalty Keith Houchen after Williams pulled someone in the box for no reason.If memory serves me right people were going mad trying to get on the pitch & police horses were called no idea what happened after just remember feeling totally gutted at going out to a third division team the press had a field day. Loved going football in the 80's as a teenager some bad days but some very funny memories!

[clockender1]

The Villa fan you see in the picture eventually falls over the lad he is fighting then starts kicking him another Arsenal fan who has just chased a Villa fan back into the Clockend joins in around the penalty area all to thunderous cheering and applause from the North Bank. The police eventually try to arrest the two Arsenal fans, it turns into Keystone cops as they run around in circles and at least five policemen slip over trying to catch them.

Pele was there that day, I not sure he was to impressed.

And remember that was the way it was back then!

I was above all that in the South end of the West Upper with literally a grandstand view. I saw more FV than the game. I still have the Programme - our programmes were sponsored by Atari that year.

I was 13 then and that was my first view of proper FV. next August i was in the North Bank with my Farahs and pringle on

happy days.

[clockender1]

Colin Ward's "Steaming In " is a good read btw - it's pretty accurate from what i remember, and it's not all hero stuff like the Chelsea/ICF stuff.

[nbgoooner64]

Clockender1 – I read steaming in a couple of years ago a great book and it solved a twenty five year plus mystery and had me chuckling as a result, that was where the tale of Ironing board Mick came from. Back in the early eighties a West Ham mate of mine was asking me if I knew Ironing board Mick when I said I didn’t he insisted I must as he was a well known face in the crew, he then went onto to tell me what treatment he metered out to away fans, he really was convinced this character existed, Chuckle.

[MK Gould]

York City was hilarious other than the result i was 14 went on the train with three of my mates who i spent all my teenage years going to Arsenal with.We were just kids but the train journey up there was a great laugh.

Does anyone remember the fella that got on the train tannoy & started announcing in a posh voice that if 'Arsenal went out of the cup this afternoon there would be a riot' the whole train was laughing.The older lot were all drinking & seemed well oiled remember the older lot coming round collecting a few coins off the other fans but they didn't ask us for any!

We were playing cards & my mate cleaned one of the other lads out so asked him if he could use his hat as £1 (the old Arsenal/Celtic ones) people of my age will remember them only too well!He got cleaned out again my mate asked if he could have his hat back but my mate chucked it out of the window my mate wasn't lucky with those hats he also had one stolen off his head against Luton!He had no luck that year something happened on a train journey from Oxford but ill save that one!

Anyway we went out of the cup that afternoon last minute penalty Keith Houchen after Williams pulled someone in the box for no reason.If memory serves me right people were going mad trying to get on the pitch & police horses were called no idea what happened after just remember feeling totally gutted at going out to a third division team the press had a field day. Loved going football in the 80's as a teenager some bad days but some very funny memories!

I remember this one well. It kicked off big time outside after the game and I doubt there were many there that day who didn't join in with the mayhem....

[Herd]

I was reading a Cas Pennant book recently - not his best - but this particular game was mentioned by both the Luton and West Ham contributors as being one of the best they'd experienced.... I didn't realise until years later that the attacks in the Arsenal end were by West Ham not Luton. The skinhead girlfriend of a guy we were with was punched in the face at one stage....

It is beyond me why people buy Hooligan books,or read them . Colin Ward wanted to put us in Steaming in and gave me the chapter to read complete with Photos ,I told the ginger nut not to put us in and he agreed after being given the hard word as Martina Cole would say,his book made me laugh though but upset Solly Silverman after being called half of the gruesome twosome !

Cass Pennant in his first named many Millwall by their real names ,to me that's grassing especially years on when people are doing "other things" it's attention you really don't need and one of the reasons the Herd never have nor will ever do a book or participate in one. Also a lot of his book was largely apocryphal since he did a lot of porridge back in the day .

I will however tell u a little story about Cass,happened circa 1985 outside the clock end .
West Ham brought a tidy mob as usual ,but didn't have it their own way and hid behind dibble as they got escorted to the clock end . Cass got separated from the main ICF mob on the corner ,and tried hard to blend in with the "normals" ,(not easy when u are a 6'5 " tall ),when in our parlance he had it put on him big time ! Quick as a flash he took a bemused and terrified child aged about 8 from his fathers hands ,put the kid on his shoulders and proclaims "leave it out lads I'm with the Chav" . Laugh we nearly shat ,and a squeeze was duly given much to the relief of the normal essex lads who follow that team.

Don't get me started about the liar Martin King !

[MK Gould]

It is beyond me why people buy Hooligan books,or read them

As someone who went to most games home and away in the late 70's through to mid 80's I always enjoy reading what it was like from the pespective of someone actively involved in the trouble. For one, I'm not sure at the time that I realised how organised things were. I didn't see myself as a scarfer, and there often seemed a blurry line between what I now know as the firm and us "ordinary" fans. I've sat near Denton on the train, stood next to him and chatted to him once in the ground (what a character!) and recall walking back from Leeds to the coachpark one night - feeling very thankful for the 50 or so lads we were walking back with..... I've been chased, and done the chasing. I've been hit and done the hitting. You certainly didn't need to be part of the firm at the time to experience the violence. It was part and parcel of every match.

But it was never something I sought out.... So fascinating to read accounts of people who went to places like Ayresome Park, The Den, Upton Park actually looking for trouble.....

One thing though I don't understand..... I haven't read that much on the subject, but Arsenal rarely seem to make it into anyones list of top firms. One of the big exceptions though seems to be from West Ham. It does seem as if there is more of a respect from them than other clubs.... No?

Also, I get a bit nostaligic thinking back to that time. But it was "that time".... That sort of behaviour seems out of place in society/football these days and so seeing that Leeds w*nk*r on the pitch at Sheff Wed a couple of weeks ago didn't make me pleased that it was somehow a return to the good old days!

[nbgoooner64]

“One thing though I don't understand..... I haven't read that much on the subject, but Arsenal rarely seem to make it into anyones list of top firms. One of the big exceptions though seems to be from West Ham. It does seem as if there is more of a respect from them than other clubs.... No?”

A bit like being handed a degree from Einstein, do the rest of the clubs matter?

[MK Gould]

“One thing though I don't understand..... I haven't read that much on the subject, but Arsenal rarely seem to make it into anyones list of top firms. One of the big exceptions though seems to be from West Ham. It does seem as if there is more of a respect from them than other clubs.... No?”

A bit like being handed a degree from Einstein, do the rest of the clubs matter?

!

[nbgoooner64]

BTW – The respect from West Ham stems largely from the 80`s. During this period football Violence was at its height and due largely to baby boom in the sixties we also had the biggest crews ever seen at football matches, surely any team with a crew would want to try it at west Ham? No way, Chelsea, ****, Boro, Geordies, scousers, Leeds etc totally shat themselves at West Ham. If they did show up it was behind plod. The only exception to the rule were the Gooners who for a number of years went toe toe with West Ham on their manor and put huge mobs on Green gate street after the game. In 85 they succeeded in running both the under fives and main ICF up the Barking road and in celebration cheekily had tee shirts printed up to mark the occasion. Bet nobodies run them at home since!

[nbgoooner64]

“I will however tell u a little story about Cass,happened circa 1985 outside the clock end….”

Not as good, but nearly, I kindly refer to it as living by your wits……


Standing on crewe station dressed in casual attire I was definitely having second thoughts about this little foray with the ICF all of a sudden my beloved Arsenal came to my thoughts and I thought what the fuck am I doing here. The station was crawling with Birmingham Zulus eager to get revenge on West Hams ICF after being roughed up a few weeks back on their own manor. We decided our best course of action was to split so three went off on there own we stayed in a gang of four and headed for a bar on a far platform hopefully out of the way. We had only started drinking when the door opened at the back and in stroll 15 - 20 Zulus, The one at the front announced “Any West Ham we come across lads, kill `em, I didn’t think explaining I was actually a Gooner would help matters much. They then huddled around us at the bar and started to order some beer, we in turn downed ours and started to back out of the crew of Zulus line abreast. It became a comedy sketch, they turned and faced us and we continued to sneak out, only when we got to the door did one shout across, “well who the fuck are you”. We did not stay for introductions We legged it through the door with them in hot pursuit. As I went through the door I darted right went a yard and sat next to little Old Lady, my thinking was if I had turned left with my mates we would run into more Zulus at the end of the platform.
My Mates had made the right decision, there was not a welcoming committee at the end of the platform and they were legged out of the station and to safety. I knew the Zulus would return and I was now stuck with no place to hide and only moments before I had stood in front of them, a Ginger nut with a green and white stripped golf jumper and white roll neck and faded Lois jeans. I did think about trying it across the tracks but that had a possibility of death so I decided stay put and accepted a hospital visit. As they approached I quickly made acquaintances with the little old lady by suggesting what four down might be on her crossword puzzle, she thanked me and asked if I knew any more. I perused the puzzle and offered further suggestions at the same time kept an eye on the Zulus who were now a yard away filing through the door. Each to a man they looked down at me, some scratched there heads and walked on, others just pulled puzzled faces, one stopped pointed and went to say something his mate pushed him in the back and through the door, he in turn then stopped looked down and pulled a puzzled face and walked on. Finally with the last one through the door closed, I thanked the little old lady for allowing me to help her with the crossword and sprung up and jogged down the platform. I rounded the corner and saw my mates returning to find me they were discussing phoning an ambulance as there was no way they would find me in one piece, when they looked up and saw me it was like they had seen a ghost.

[oboe123]

Lueon was always a naughty place to go in 80's.Does any one remember Brighton away in FA Cup in 1988,

[biggsy]

Hi nb gooner good memories when the fans real meeting every other week to travel all over the country your recollection of the villa game when they won the league 1981 was very good and pretty accurate until you come to the most important bit who was the villa fan The villa fan has his back to you there is a very good reason for knowing this which hopefully you will be able to work out apart from that I enjoyed your recollections and I will post some of my own soon all the best nutty Ron ps have a look at weare the herd .com and go to villa won the league at our place

[HighburyPaddy81]

Great read.

In the first post you're referring to an Arsenal-Luton league game at Kenilworth Road in 1984, and we actually didn't draw, we won 2-1.
West Ham's game at Birmingham wasn't called off that day, as far as I'm aware their train broke down in Luton so they decided to get off to infiltrate the Arsenal mob, (West Ham lost 3-0 anyway).
There was about 2,000 of them, and some Gooners got kicked senseless on the terrace, but as mentioned, after a long battle, Arsenal ran them outside the ground (this was only about 18 months after one of theirs had murdered John Dickinson).
Regarding the Arsenal-Celtic beanies, half the North Bank used to wear them in the 1980s if it was cold. My old man has a half and half one (yellow/green) with both crests on it. I've seen a few blokes around Highbury with Arsenal/Celtic tattoos on their backs or on their chests. There's an older lad I know, who usually goes to the George or the Bailey for our home games, with an Arsenal/Celtic tattoo on his arm (just our old cannon and their crest).

Regarding the cup game at Brighton in 1988, apparently it kicked off and both mobs were at it for an hour or so down by the pier, although I wasn't there (I only started doing aways around 1998, when I was 17, so I wouldn't have seen as much violence as most of you).

I'll share a story from 1967, Arsenal were playing Rangers in a pre-season game at Highbury. Approximately 37,000 in attendance, not bad at all for a pre-season game . We won the game 3-0, with Sammels getting a brace and Johnston scoring the other.

Islington had a massive first and second generation Irish population at the time, and before the game the some local residents and the Rangers were shouting at each other and there were a few skirmishes on the Holloway Road
Rangers ended up going onto the North Bank, and there was constant fighting between the Arsenal and the Rangers mobs for almost the entirety of the match (the referee even stopped the game itself for a number of minutes).
The Old Bill were fucking useless back then as they wouldn't have been prepared for anything of the sort, especially at a pre-season game, and seeing as the heyday of the football hooligan wasn't until the early 1970s. The injured were all carried down the North Bank towards the pitch, behind the goal for treatment. I vaguely remember being told that up to thirty were hospitalised, it was undoubtedly the most aggro Highbury had seen until the 1980s. The first-aid men were busy on the North Bank that day.

Rangers fans were singing:
''Matt Busby said to Bill Shankly,
Have you heard of the North Bank Highbury,
Shanks said no, I don't think so,
But I've heard of the Rangers aggro”

The following Arsenal programme led with:
''Incidents such as the one which occurred on the North Bank terrace when we played Rangers cannot be tolerated and unless strong action is taken the terraces of football grounds will be occupied only by thugs; decent people will stay away. Although on this occasion the trouble was caused by a group of Rangers' supporters there was enough evidence from last season for us to know that it could happen again''

There were plenty arrested and the Islington Gazette described the behaviour as ''nothing short of shocking and tantamount to a national disgrace”
Boxing promoter Frank Warren said ''The first time I saw fighting at The Arsenal was during a match against Rangers and it was diabolical, they were slinging bottles at one another and it was all happening in the North Bank. The Glasgow Rangers supporters were in there, and that was the first sign of seeing any hooliganism, I come from a rough part of Islington anyway. You're not going to say you're not used to seeing it, but for football it was the first time that I was in where it happened”

Following the game Arsenal banned the sale of bottled and canned beer as well as beverages in the ground.

Also, a certain Alex Ferguson was playing that day. Dennis Hill-Wood vowed after the game that Rangers would never be invited to Highbury again.
Rangers played Arsenal in 1963 at Highbury and they were in the Clock End that day, but apparently spent the day throwing potatoes with razor blades in them at the Arsenal fans, which set the precedent for 1967.