THE WENGER THREAD

[GTG]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

That's the thing for me too. I could not give a shit if removing Wenger meant the new manager struggled for a few seasons and we were not qualifying for the shit CL. It would be better than this terminal groundhog season bollocks we are suffering through now.

And who is to say that a new manager would not come in and win the PL in his first season?

Couldnt agree more with these comments and what Rodders said. For me if it took a few seasons going backwards then so be it. At least at the beginning of the season there would be some optimism again. The biggest thing Wenger has done to me personally is suck the enthusiasm out of me as a fan. I still go for a piss up but its depressing knowing what will happen when you get to the game like Saturday. How nice would it be to go again and think anything could happen here.

[DB10GOONER]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

That's the thing for me too. I could not give a shit if removing Wenger meant the new manager struggled for a few seasons and we were not qualifying for the shit CL. It would be better than this terminal groundhog season bollocks we are suffering through now.

And who is to say that a new manager would not come in and win the PL in his first season?

Couldnt agree more with these comments and what Rodders said. For me if it took a few seasons going backwards then so be it. At least at the beginning of the season there would be some optimism again. The biggest thing Wenger has done to me personally is suck the enthusiasm out of me as a fan. I still go for a piss up but its depressing knowing what will happen when you get to the game like Saturday. How nice would it be to go again and think anything could happen here.

The bit in red describes to a tee how I feel. It's the boring drudgery of every season knowing we will flatter to deceive for a while but ultimately fail because of the same mistakes by the manager as every season before over the last 13 years. I used to be a football and Arsenal obsessive but he is killing my love for both.

[flash gunner]

I dont care if we finish 8th the champions league means nothing anymore.....

Has he gone yet?

That's the thing for me too. I could not give a shit if removing Wenger meant the new manager struggled for a few seasons and we were not qualifying for the shit CL. It would be better than this terminal groundhog season bollocks we are suffering through now.

And who is to say that a new manager would not come in and win the PL in his first season?

Couldnt agree more with these comments and what Rodders said. For me if it took a few seasons going backwards then so be it. At least at the beginning of the season there would be some optimism again. The biggest thing Wenger has done to me personally is suck the enthusiasm out of me as a fan. I still go for a piss up but its depressing knowing what will happen when you get to the game like Saturday. How nice would it be to go again and think anything could happen here.

The bit in red describes to a tee how I feel. It's the boring drudgery of every season knowing we will flatter to deceive for a while but ultimately fail because of the same mistakes by the manager as every season before over the last 13 years. I used to be a football and Arsenal obsessive but he is killing my love for both.

Thats exactly how i am and its gone i dont know if even a new manager will ever bring it back

[p206ab]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... enger.html

I know it's the DM, but at least they are on our side...
Print that and throw it out of the airplane like in the war times!

and he'll still be like "But have they worked in football for 30 years?"

[Perryashburtongroves]

From what I understand over the last few days, it's perfectly acceptable to want Ranieri sacked nine months after winning the league title but completely disrespectful to even consider wanting Wanker out after 13 years of not coming close to winning it.

[Clash]

Anyone seen the Mirror - they have asked their writer and pundits to say whether Wenger should stay or go.

This is a quote from John Cross: "And why would anyone risk finishing eighth by sacking the most successful manager they've ever had? A change won't guarantee improvement."

Neville said something similar on Sky. So I guess this is the new talking point. It used to be 'who else would you replace him with', or 'be careful what you wish for'. But now the new narrative is 'do you want to finish 8th'.

Its the old straw man argument, with wikipedia's definition as follows: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

They attach 'finishing 8th' to sacking Wenger, as a way to de-legitimize genuine criticism of Wenger. They always attack sacking Wenger to eithr finishing 8th, or ending up like Man United's David Moyes. However, who in the media ever talks about how Chelsea sacked Mourinho and got in Conte when it became apparent Jose's time was up? Neville brands Arsenal fans idiots, and John Cross and Darren Lewis always take the moral high ground, however, its only they who are engaging in straw man arguments and telling horror stories in an effort to scare Arsenal fans into blind support. Its the media and pundits supporting Wenger who are the irresponsible ones. Its they who cant have a conversation about Wenger without attaching some bullshit horror story about finishing 8th or ending up like Moyes Man United.

Seriously where have you been for the last 10 years? The media and the AKB have been using that excuse for 10 years now ffs.

Yeah, they used to refer to it as ''going back to being mid-table''

This seriously is a crock of shit even by the standards of the media and Neville though. I know the rat-faced bastard is paid to hype up the quality of the PL but he cannot be taken seriously as a pundit if he really thinks that only Wenger's management is keeping this set of players higher than 8th in a league a shit as this one.

How bad would a new manager have to be to not only fail to capitalise on the massive room for improvement Wenger wil leave ... the very same things Neville spends 90mins bleating on about when he does our games ... but then also finish below the likes of Everton, Southampton or West Ham.

And I fail to see how a man who won 3 titles in his first 8 seasons ... is still being excused when, largely due to self-inflicted restrictions, he did not even put in a title challenge for any of the next 13 seasons.

[markyp]

I don't where this 'going back to mid table' bollox comes from,ffs we are are Arsenal not Southampton,it as if Wenger is as important to Arsenal as the Ravens at the tower of London,neither will crumble if either leaves,FACT!

[northbank123]

From what I understand over the last few days, it's perfectly acceptable to want Ranieri sacked nine months after winning the league title but completely disrespectful to even consider wanting Wanker out after 13 years of not coming close to winning it.

No surprises from the hypocritical journalists who treated the bloke like complete garbage and an utter laughing stock when he was at Chelsea and H then pretended it had all been affectionate when he masterminded last year's incredible feat.

[augie]

I know the messenger is a cuntbag, but it doesn't make the message wrong -

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/football ... spartandhp

[Henry Norris 1913]

when you're getting called out by charlie adam thats probably an indication that you ain't exactly le professor anymore

[armchair]

Its happening. I've said it for years.

Fan protests will be picked up on by the mainstream media. Wenger will be scrutinised and criticised more and more. Questioned.
He hates it.

He loves to lord it at press conferences with his oh-so-funny, oh-so-intelligent little quips. All the journos laughing. What a great guy.

His ego is gonna be badly hurt this season. Its only just begun.

I hope he leaves in disgrace, under a cloud. But I dont really care just as long as he leaves

[Nick Bendtners Ego]

when you're getting called out by charlie adam thats probably an indication that you ain't exactly le professor anymore

Adam , Piers Morgan, Craig Burley, a right motley collection of footballing Z listers and uber c.unts.

Need players, managers of renowned standing to start calling it for what it is. Too many former players are still in Wenger's lengthy fluffer queue who have more respect for the man rather than love for the club it seems. Merson's flip flopping of the last few seasons, PaddY v'S and Petits barbed comments aside, only Stewart Robson and his bitterness really lead the posse from within the club. It just isn't going to happen from voices that might, just might rattle sense into Akb's siege mentality minds, the likes of Henry, Keown and Dixon will sit on the fence right until he leaves by mutual consent, end of contract or in a box. They'll sit on that weather beaten, decaying, rotten structure and despite how many splinters and rusty nails in their arse they still won't get off it Souness is the only pundit with standing in the game that calls a spade a spade or in this case, a has been, a has been. What would it take to get him to imitate his best placing of a flag in the centre circle with a big ' Wenger Out ' banner a la Fenerbache. Need the days where we get figures of footballing pedigree repeatedly starting to question his non financial value to the club that will gnaw at his ego and small portal to his common sense. Unfortunately the media frenzy that would unfold if say Ferguson for example, came out and said, he's had his time and time to call it a day would be manna from the heavens and maybe even a shock to his distorted reality. A reality check from all the 'yes' men that surround him. Those A listers will probably never materialise as the man has such respect by and large within the game that few will openly call it the way it is. Until he really screws it up( The myth of top 4, losing the dressing room, The bowl etc ) and footballing voices that matter,provide extra media knives to put him and us out of our mercy ,we're stuck with the likes of Big time Charlie Adam trying to sound like Mr. Billy big bollox football critique.

[DB10GOONER]

when you're getting called out by charlie adam thats probably an indication that you ain't exactly le professor anymore

Adam , Piers Morgan, Craig Burley, a right motley collection of footballing Z listers and uber c.unts.

Need players, managers of renowned standing to start calling it for what it is. Too many former players are still in Wenger's lengthy fluffer queue who have more respect for the man rather than love for the club it seems. Merson's flip flopping of the last few seasons, PaddY v'S and Petits barbed comments aside, only Stewart Robson and his bitterness really lead the posse from within the club. It just isn't going to happen from voices that might, just might rattle sense into Akb's siege mentality minds, the likes of Henry, Keown and Dixon will sit on the fence right until he leaves by mutual consent, end of contract or in a box. They'll sit on that weather beaten, decaying, rotten structure and despite how many splinters and rusty nails in their arse they still won't get off it Souness is the only pundit with standing in the game that calls a spade a spade or in this case, a has been, a has been. What would it take to get him to imitate his best placing of a flag in the centre circle with a big ' Wenger Out ' banner a la Fenerbache. Need the days where we get figures of footballing pedigree repeatedly starting to question his non financial value to the club that will gnaw at his ego and small portal to his common sense. Unfortunately the media frenzy that would unfold if say Ferguson for example, came out and said, he's had his time and time to call it a day would be manna from the heavens and maybe even a shock to his distorted reality. A reality check from all the 'yes' men that surround him. Those A listers will probably never materialise as the man has such respect by and large within the game that few will openly call it the way it is. Until he really screws it up( The myth of top 4, losing the dressing room, The bowl etc ) and footballing voices that matter,provide extra media knives to put him and us out of our mercy ,we're stuck with the likes of Big time Charlie Adam trying to sound like Mr. Billy big bollox football critique.

Great post. Bang on the nail. No-mark twats like Adam and Burley questioning Wenger come across as bitter bastards looking for attention. They do us no good at all. They only add to the media view that all anti Wengerites are ungrateful spoiled brats.

The limp banner protests last season and the frankly fucking embarrassing "mass" walkout by 37 or so people at the Norwich game gave the media the fuel to propagate the myth that only a handful of ungrateful spoiled JCL Gooners want Wenger gone and that proper loyal Gooners want him to stay. Our protest has no credibility.

The problem is that in the insular sheltered world of football very few respected figures will publicly criticise another professional because they all know but for the grace of God they could be the guy people want sacked and also many of them meet up regularly at various events fundraisers etc and are "pally".

[Wilson]

Its Henry's turn. 'Arsenal have a mental problem' - but its not Wenger's fault. The truth is however, our mental weakness first came to light in 07-08 were we collapsed in the run in despite being 5 points clear with 8 games to go. Thats the year our association with bottling it became apparent.

Yet Henry is excusing Wenger of any blame, even though Wenger is the common denominator of a team who bottles it ranging from 2007 to now. We have had different teams spanning 10 years, yet all beget the same problem if being brittle and soft, and Wenger is the only constant.

Now, unlike Henry, I think the problems do come from Wenger. I think Wenger is soft and passive. He doesnt hold the players accountable, and defends them to easily. He also doesnt like confrontation, so will not put Walcott or Giroud on notice as it would create friction. The players subsequently are never pushed beyond their comfort zones, and when they come up against players who are being pushed by their manager to not only become better players, but stronger players mentally, our players just cant cope against these players who are on a different level mentally.

Sanchez is a player who got his mental strengh playing for Pep's Barcelona - one of the greatest teams in history. Yet you can tell Sanchez deduces this team is not up to par in terms of effort and commitment. For example, his exasperated look when Giroud wanted to celebrate the equalizer against Bournemouth, rather than rushing back to start the game in the hope of getting a 4th. There was a time one of the players sent out a tweet after a dead rubber match last season after the title was already lost, and Cech was seen in the background looking on confused. No doubt Cech is in the frame of mind of, 'we just lost the title, why are these players behaving like they have something to celebrate'. Cech got his mental strengh at Chelsea, and you can tell the antics of some of our players confuse him.

All the while, players like Ramsey, Walcott, Chamberlain, Giroud who never played for a top team, behave like players who just dont get it. Example, Chamberlain dancing in the tunnel before a match. Or Ramsey's constant desire for in game trickery thinking he is a harlem globe trotter, or Walcott smiling and laughing every time he misses a chance (contrast to Sanchez who expressed anger and regret whenever he misses a chance). Or Giroud cupping his ear to the crowd for setting up a goal, in response to fans gave him some stick after he went 15 league games without a goal which is one of the main reasons we didnt win the league last year.

One of the reasons Cesc wanted to leave us, was because he just won the World Cup with Spain and knew what a fuking joke we were after being exposed to such high level quality, professionalism and commitment. It was only when exposed to such high end football did he realise he was wasting his time at Arsenal. Thats why players like Cech, Sanchez find the Arsenal culture to be very strange.

Its also why Wenger chooses not to bring in too many players who have had positive experiences playing for teams who win World Cup's or played for clubs who get to the end of the CL, or win their domestic titles - because they bring with them learnt behaviors and traits that threaten Wengers hold on power. Wenger prefers to manage the successfully ignorant players like Walcott, Giroud, Ramsey and co - players who will go their entire careers without winning anything more than an FA Cup. In other words, players who feel like they owe Wenger just for signing them, and that allows Wenger to maintain control. As if we had a sqaud full of Alexis Sanchez's, Wenger wouldn't be in control.

[Redarmy]

The old fraud is way past his sell by date....this bring cycle of failure will just keep recurring until he leaves

He will not go gracefully, think he will need evicting.....fucking hate the man

If he signs another contract thinks lot of fans will just call it a day ....me being one of them

leave it to the tourists, corporates and day trippers