Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?

Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion?

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.

No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).

Oh ffs mate. What a patronising statement. Honestly sometimes I wonder is there another forum you are on and you mix up the two!

You are implying that almost everyone on here was in favour of Arteta getting the job and that almost everyone was hailing him as doing a good job up until recently when you finally convinced us all that you were right all along.

Read back through the threads. No one that I can recall wanted him. And only sid and maybe one or two others were hailing him as a good manager accomplishing all those things you list as myths for any period at all after those improvements had ceased. And even those few are now firmly in the Arteta out camp. The vast majority saw through him within a few weeks.

Also most of those "myths" you list were facts at one point. We did have those improvements under him. But they should be viewed within context. They were very shortlived, most likely down to the new manager "bounce" rather than any ability he has, and I can't find anyone on here still quoting them as current improvements since that time. The the only person that keeps bringing them up is you!

The FA Cup win was brilliant and to talk it down is poor form, especially as in other threads you criticise managers that don't take the cup seriously. But also I don't recall anyone saying he should get the job with no consequences because he won the cup.

Like g88ner, I also don't get the constant Emery referencing. Emery was sacked because he was not good enough. He humiliated the club with that cup final loss to the chav, he had no plan, no system, the team under him in that second half of his last season were as bad if not worse than anything under Wenger and he bottled the easiest run in we've ever had.

The current idiot is as bad and in many ways worse and he too should be sacked. I don't know how many times everyone on here has to say that before you believe you ate not the only one saying it!

Fair enough. For the record, I've never talked down the cup win.....in fact, despite all my misgivings about him I reserved special praise for the difficult run we had to win that cup and some of the performances that went with it. My point about the cup is that for a club like us, is it really enough to cling to one FA cup win as the basis of a long term managerial future when lesser managers have won the cup too. Doesn't detract from the wins that were needed to win the cup

I still think there are elements of the media that need to wake up to these myths. I posted on here after last weekend that the lot on Sky were stunned that his first 50 PL games were worse than both Emery's first 50, and Wenger's last 50........I don't know what they've been watching all this time if its still a surprise

Anyway, I wouldn't want Emery back - never wanted him to start with. I just can't fucking stand seeing someone WORSE than him in the job.....it absolutely fucking kills me seeing us behave like Derby County taking a punt on Lampard and Rooney as managers. Like the vast majority of us, I just want the fucker gone tomorrow

Ah right. Sorry mate I misunderstood your point about the cup. I did think it strange when I first read it, because like myself you are on record as loving the "unfashionable" cups!

Tbh I still find it unbelievable that a huge world famous storied club like the Arsenal have basically taken a punt on a novice. It still blows my mind. The bewigged parasite is killing this great club.

[SteveO 35]

Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion?

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.

No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).

Oh ffs mate. What a patronising statement. Honestly sometimes I wonder is there another forum you are on and you mix up the two!

You are implying that almost everyone on here was in favour of Arteta getting the job and that almost everyone was hailing him as doing a good job up until recently when you finally convinced us all that you were right all along.

Read back through the threads. No one that I can recall wanted him. And only sid and maybe one or two others were hailing him as a good manager accomplishing all those things you list as myths for any period at all after those improvements had ceased. And even those few are now firmly in the Arteta out camp. The vast majority saw through him within a few weeks.

Also most of those "myths" you list were facts at one point. We did have those improvements under him. But they should be viewed within context. They were very shortlived, most likely down to the new manager "bounce" rather than any ability he has, and I can't find anyone on here still quoting them as current improvements since that time. The the only person that keeps bringing them up is you!

The FA Cup win was brilliant and to talk it down is poor form, especially as in other threads you criticise managers that don't take the cup seriously. But also I don't recall anyone saying he should get the job with no consequences because he won the cup.

Like g88ner, I also don't get the constant Emery referencing. Emery was sacked because he was not good enough. He humiliated the club with that cup final loss to the chav, he had no plan, no system, the team under him in that second half of his last season were as bad if not worse than anything under Wenger and he bottled the easiest run in we've ever had.

The current idiot is as bad and in many ways worse and he too should be sacked. I don't know how many times everyone on here has to say that before you believe you ate not the only one saying it!

Fair enough. For the record, I've never talked down the cup win.....in fact, despite all my misgivings about him I reserved special praise for the difficult run we had to win that cup and some of the performances that went with it. My point about the cup is that for a club like us, is it really enough to cling to one FA cup win as the basis of a long term managerial future when lesser managers have won the cup too. Doesn't detract from the wins that were needed to win the cup

I still think there are elements of the media that need to wake up to these myths. I posted on here after last weekend that the lot on Sky were stunned that his first 50 PL games were worse than both Emery's first 50, and Wenger's last 50........I don't know what they've been watching all this time if its still a surprise

Anyway, I wouldn't want Emery back - never wanted him to start with. I just can't fucking stand seeing someone WORSE than him in the job.....it absolutely fucking kills me seeing us behave like Derby County taking a punt on Lampard and Rooney as managers. Like the vast majority of us, I just want the fucker gone tomorrow

Ah right. Sorry mate I misunderstood your point about the cup. I did think it strange when I first read it, because like myself you are on record as loving the "unfashionable" cups!

Tbh I still find it unbelievable that a huge world famous storied club like the Arsenal have basically taken a punt on a novice. It still blows my mind. The bewigged parasite is killing this great club.

I'm bewildered but also not if that makes sense - I think more than a few of us said that our biggest fear post Wenger was the decision making that our board would make and so it has proved. Dick was the wrong man. They then threw poor Freddie and BFG to the wolves asking them to do two jobs each whilst giving them no support for a month or so, before appointing the novice. Just clueless at every level. Remember not so long ago Gazidis talking about the 'catalyst for change' and that once the stadium debt was paid and we secured new commercial deals we'd be able to compete with Europe's elite and sign most players in world football

Roll the clock forward, and here we are 'doing a Derby' appointing novice managers and currently the 4th best team in our own city

[augie]

Arteta should never have got the Arsenal manager job when he did. Never. I went on record of that when he was linked with the job when wenger was sacked, and I said same thing when Emery was sacked. I find it extremely frustrating that arteta is being judged far, far softer than emery was by the media and a lot of fans, considering he is dragging us down and making an absolute bollox of the job. Make no mistake, if pep's cone boy isnt sacked soon, the damage he will have done will have damaged the club for years to come - he is alienating young players (martinelli is the high profile one but not the only one) as his preference continues to be the older players who have a track record of failing for us. He is prioritising loan players over his own players (smith-rowe) when said loan player has every intention of playing for another club next season. Everything arteta is doing is about the short term and yet he is being praised for having a long term plan

Get rid of this c.unt asap

[Nos89]

75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?

Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion?

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.

No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).

One thing I'll give him credit for - he speaks much better English and sounds so cool with his post match comments. We'd be in the CL places for sure if points were awarded for that. Look forward to another 75 occasions of hearing how our performance "is a long way off the standards required" - wonder how many games he'll need before it does hit that standard?

Just saying if we're judging managers by the same criteria then why hasn't this one gone after 75 games of performing worse than the last one? Oh yeah we won the cup that Wigan and Portsmouth won in recent years, and that Wenger himself won 7 times.

I think you're right in that there's only a slim chance he'll be sacked even if we do lose to Slavia or in the semi. I just don't see how we can fire one supposedly underperforming manager, but keep the other despite having a worse record. Still absolutely mystifies me - if it literally all is just down to the FA Cup then we might as well go and hire Harry Redknapp, Roberto Martinez, Louis van Gaal, Gianluca Vialli or Wenger himself !

The frustration being voiced is because we did see an improvement in the team. Now its gone backwards the focus is clearly on the players because it is now the third manager under which the squad has failed. Winning the FA Cup was no mean feat by Arteta with this squad players, it showed what they are capable of when they want to perform. This squad didn't perform for Wenger, fell off a cliff under Emery, and has regressed under Arteta. Graham took three seasons to get rid of the players that let him and the club down, before he had his own team. I'd like to see Graham's stats after 75 games.
The next 3 games are vital to Arteta's mangerial career. He won't get sacked until the end of the if we catastrophically lose any of the 3 games in the next 8 days. It will be interesting to see who SteveO supports if we get past Slavia Prague and face Villareal in the semi-final.

[SteveO 35]

75 games in charge - just 3 more before he's equalled Emery's number of games in charge. If he wins all 3 of them he'll still be 2 short of the total managed by the "spineless clown". He's already lost 2 more than Emery

From 8th to 11th

Ahh....but "we're more competitive against the big teams"

Record against Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Chelsea and Spurs this season - played 9, won 3, drawn 1, lost 5, scored 7 conceded 12

His record in the league against those same teams when he took over least season - played 6, won 2, drawn 1, lost 3, scored 8 conceded 10

So, we've lost more than half of those games and averaged a goal per game - wow, be still my beating heart

No improvement whatsoever, just regression. We don't defend better, we sure as hell don't attack better, we aren't any better against the big teams, the squad isn't playing for the manager, there is no idea of what the formation or best XI is.

75 games in charge. When is too long?

Comparing Arteta to Emery for the millionth time Steveo what weird gratification are you getting out of this sick perversion?

Bottom line mate is both Emery and Arteta have a worse record than Wenger’s last 50 games so both well deserve the sack.

If we lose to Slavia or in the semi final, I think there’s a SLIM chance Arteta might be sacked in the summer. He certainly deserves it! Doubt he will though.

No gratification whatsoever - just nice to finally see some acceptance on here over the last few weeks that the mythical improvement was exactly that - a myth. When the stats weren't enough to dismiss the 'progression' talk, the usual arguments were about how much better we were against the big teams (myth), and how much better we were defensively (myth). Oh....and of course the previous manager had lost the dressing room whilst being unified under this goon (myth).

One thing I'll give him credit for - he speaks much better English and sounds so cool with his post match comments. We'd be in the CL places for sure if points were awarded for that. Look forward to another 75 occasions of hearing how our performance "is a long way off the standards required" - wonder how many games he'll need before it does hit that standard?

Just saying if we're judging managers by the same criteria then why hasn't this one gone after 75 games of performing worse than the last one? Oh yeah we won the cup that Wigan and Portsmouth won in recent years, and that Wenger himself won 7 times.

I think you're right in that there's only a slim chance he'll be sacked even if we do lose to Slavia or in the semi. I just don't see how we can fire one supposedly underperforming manager, but keep the other despite having a worse record. Still absolutely mystifies me - if it literally all is just down to the FA Cup then we might as well go and hire Harry Redknapp, Roberto Martinez, Louis van Gaal, Gianluca Vialli or Wenger himself !

The frustration being voiced is because we did see an improvement in the team. Now its gone backwards the focus is clearly on the players because it is now the third manager under which the squad has failed. Winning the FA Cup was no mean feat by Arteta with this squad players, it showed what they are capable of when they want to perform. This squad didn't perform for Wenger, fell off a cliff under Emery, and has regressed under Arteta. Graham took three seasons to get rid of the players that let him and the club down, before he had his own team. I'd like to see Graham's stats after 75 games.
The next 3 games are vital to Arteta's mangerial career. He won't get sacked until the end of the if we catastrophically lose any of the 3 games in the next 8 days. It will be interesting to see who SteveO supports if we get past Slavia Prague and face Villareal in the semi-final.

You were doing so well up to the bits in bold

"Fell off a cliff" i.e. finished 5th and sacked when 8th, as opposed to being 15th just before Xmas and under our worst start in 45 years

No need to doubt who I'll be cheering for. Unlike some "supporters" on here cheering for Slavia as supposedly being part of some 'greater good', I will always be cheering for us and even under the Wenger era when a good few on here were urging defeats to get him the boot, you can trawl through every post I made and see if you can find a single reference to me going against my own team. You won't find it

If we don't win the trophy however, I would like Emery to win it. For me he was a thoroughly decent man who only ever said good things about this club and behaved himself impeccably throughout his tenure.

[arrgee]

.
Graham took three seasons to get rid of the players that let him and the club down, before he had his own team. I'd like to see Graham's stats after 75 games.

I bet Graham’s first 50 games are better than the first 50 of Emery & Arteta by a long way. In his first season, Arsenal were top at Christmas and ended up with 70 points in a 42 game season and winning the League Cup along with getting cheated out of a draw against Watford in the quarter final of the FA Cup. The reaction of the players after that Watford defeat spoke volumes for the attitude of Arsenal at the time. Steve Williams told Graham Taylor where to get off. Today’s snowflakes would swap shirts and jump into their Lamborghinis.

[SteveO 35]

.
Graham took three seasons to get rid of the players that let him and the club down, before he had his own team. I'd like to see Graham's stats after 75 games.

I bet Graham’s first 50 games are better than the first 50 of Emery & Arteta by a long way. In his first season, Arsenal were top at Christmas and ended up with 70 points in a 42 game season and winning the League Cup along with getting cheated out of a draw against Watford in the quarter final of the FA Cup. The reaction of the players after that Watford defeat spoke volumes for the attitude of Arsenal at the time. Steve Williams told Graham Taylor where to get off. Today’s snowflakes would swap shirts and jump into their Lamborghinis.

^^

This. I can't believe anyone of sane mind would even attempt to compare the two, but 89's Arteta loving mask slipped a little bit there didn't it !

As you say 70 points from 42 games and we finished 4th which of course in this era would have everyone salivating about qualification for the CL. The first 8 games of the following season, we won 4, drew 2, lost 2 (one of which was Liverpool who won the league). We actually notched up 10 straight wins pre-Xmas. I'd say that's infinitely better than anything this helmet has done

[arrgee]

As you say 70 points from 42 games and we finished 4th which of course in this era would have everyone salivating about qualification for the CL. The first 8 games of the following season, we won 4, drew 2, lost 2 (one of which was Liverpool who won the league). We actually notched up 10 straight wins pre-Xmas. I'd say that's infinitely better than anything this helmet has done

The first two Graham seasons were pretty impressive and as good as anything in the preceding 15 seasons. He ditched a few underachievers, but in his first season Williams, Sansom & Anderson all upped their games before they were eventually replaced by Thomas, Winterburn and Dixon.

[SteveO 35]

As you say 70 points from 42 games and we finished 4th which of course in this era would have everyone salivating about qualification for the CL. The first 8 games of the following season, we won 4, drew 2, lost 2 (one of which was Liverpool who won the league). We actually notched up 10 straight wins pre-Xmas. I'd say that's infinitely better than anything this helmet has done

The first two Graham seasons were pretty impressive and as good as anything in the preceding 15 seasons. He ditched a few underachievers, but in his first season Williams, Sansom & Anderson all upped their games before they were eventually replaced by Thomas, Winterburn and Dixon.

He got rid of Woodcock and Caton right at the start - two of the biggest voices in the dressing room. Rix followed plus the ones you mentioned and Champagne Charlie. The bloke didn't care how big the name of the player was, if he wasn't up for it, he was out. Its why I despair at people that mock managers like Dyche and Wilder because they effectively do the same at a lower level, and who's to say with a bigger budget they couldn't do a better job?

Whilst times have changed, the principles haven't. At the time when we were singing those lads like Dixon, Winterburn, Bould, Groves, Marwood etc, the likes of Liverpool, Man U and even the vermin with Gazza were outspending us. The same can be done again - look at Moyes at West Ham. Leeds spent about £100m on nine players and are on par with us who have spent that just on our two main forwards.

In fairness to old whiskey nose he didn't mind bombing out some of the world's biggest stars - Beckham, Jaap Stam, van Nistelrooy and even Keane who ran the dressing room

What do we have with Arteta? A manager brave enough to bomb out Guendouzi and drop the likes of Martinelli........but what is he doing about the senior c.unts who have let us down for dozens of games - Xhaka, Bellerin, Luiz, Willian, Pepe. Absolutely fuck all - they're still here and will be next season too. Play as shit as you like and I'll still pick you

[DB10GOONER]

If we don't win the trophy however, I would like Emery to win it. For me he was a thoroughly decent man who only ever said good things about this club and behaved himself impeccably throughout his tenure.

Great shout mate. If we don't win it then I too would love to see Dick win it. As you say he is a thoroughly decent bloke and he has handled himself impeccably both during and since his time with us.

Its a tough one. If we win it Arteta stays. But I cannot bring myself to want us to lose. Ideally we win it and Arteta turns into a genius in his second full season. Not likely but here's hoping huh?

What will probably happen is we lose and Martinez-Lite stays in charge anyway.....

[BobbyPires7]

The truth about Guendouzi is that he offered Arteta out. That’s why he will never play for Arteta or Arsenal again.

[Clummo99]

The truth about Guendouzi is that he offered Arteta out. That’s why he will never play for Arteta or Arsenal again.

Twitter or Facebook?

[BobbyPires7]

The truth about Guendouzi is that he offered Arteta out. That’s why he will never play for Arteta or Arsenal again.

Twitter or Facebook?

Neither.

[Clummo99]

The truth about Guendouzi is that he offered Arteta out. That’s why he will never play for Arteta or Arsenal again.

Twitter or Facebook?

Neither.

Ah must be your mate's Dad's best friend's Uncle who knows the tea lady at the training ground then? .

[BobbyPires7]

The truth about Guendouzi is that he offered Arteta out. That’s why he will never play for Arteta or Arsenal again.

Twitter or Facebook?

Neither.

Ah must be your mate's Dad's best friend's Uncle who knows the tea lady at the training ground then? .

Basically. Yes.