Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
9
9%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
27
27%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
20
20%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
44
44%
 
Total votes: 100

Retro Gunner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Retro Gunner »

StuartL wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:25 pm
Nos89 wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:26 pm
Arteta has left himself in a very tricky predicament by loaning out too many squad players. We knew AFCON was happening. We could easily anticipate COVID was going to be a risk at this time of year, as well as muscular injuries due to match schedules. We've loaned out too many players. It's naive management.
You would think that it would only happen if they knew for certain that 1 or 2 more players were nailed on signings.

Melo seems close to being done and Vlahovic would be awesome.

Oh Stuart old chap, surely not still being taken in by the Arsenal transfer hype?? You know full well that we'll end up with a 3rd rate striker from the Albanian league and another unknown midfielder with a broken back.

"So what's the diagnosis Doctor?"

"Hmm, looks like another tragic victim of the Arsenal Supporters' Disease. I'd say a definite case of the heart ruling the head."

:-P :wink:

Bob Bayliss
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Bob Bayliss »

As David Davis said about Boris in PMQs yesterday:

"'You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. In the name of God, go.'"

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

Still here

160m more spent

Probably going to get another 50m to spend this window

Fewer matches to play than any Arsenal team in living memory

Still as far away from being a CL team as at any point in over 20 years

Awful boring shitty football consistently- tonight just another recent example to go with the Forest defeat only a couple of weeks ago. Season over. One long yawn

If anyone really thinks this is progress I would hate to see what regression looks like

wilson2.0
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by wilson2.0 »

Ive seen promising signs with Arteta. The potential in the City game, the almost perfect transfer window, his handing of PEA and past handling of Ozil. But if he doesn't finish 4th this year, it needs to be a strike against his name. He wont be sacked. But for fuck sake if he doesn't get 4th this year then next season 4th is the bare minimum

In ESR, White, Gabriel, Tierney, Odegaard, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale plus generational talents Saka and Martinelli, we have a spine to build around. We cannot give Arteta unlimited time as players end up leaving. Wenger was naïve thinking Cesc ect would wait forever. & when it became apparently no progress was being made he and Nasri left in the same window & Wenger was caught by total surprise.

if we have players other clubs want to sign, we should be asking why we cant win with these players already on our books. If Cesc, Nasri and RVP were good enough to win the title at other clubs, why couldnt Wenger get near the title when he had all three players?

Our critics and Arsenal shitkickers like to say Saka, ESR and Martinelli need to leave Arsenal to win trophies. In essence saying Arsenal have three forward players worthy of winning trophies............so why cant they win them with us? Thats where the spotlight falls on Arteta.

We cant keep falling short. throwing away victory whether it was the City game, away to Man United, away to Everton, and falling short in games like today. The potential is obvious. But the next level needs to be reached, and that's qualifying for the CL & we wont do that unless we snap our habit of losing winnable games.

Thankfully Arteta isnt Wenger. He actually wants to win and is ambitious for it. Spending over 100m in the last transfer window without selling anyone of note, as well as the majority of signings being at the back with Ramsdale, White and Tomiyasu. When did Wenger ever invest that heavily at the back? Were putting the effort in for Vlahovic & working in Melo and that Lyon midfielder - this s all indicative of the right direction. But to my point, if he doesn't sign a midfielder and it costs us 4th. Then he needs to wear the strike.

We cant keep being a perpetual experiment & training ground

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60078091

For once an excellent article on BBC Sport which pretty much sums up Arteta's Arsenal and how myself (and I suspect 50,000 odd others last night) feel about things. The extracts that are relevant to me:

"What better chance would they have to make a statement about their current status under Arteta than by beating a superpower such as Liverpool?

They made a statement all right - but not the sort Arteta would have wanted as even a stripped-down, although still strong Liverpool simply had too much nous, street wisdom, quality and ruthlessness for Arsenal."


Damn right - still absolutely lacking any sort of leadership and nous when it matters most - 11 kids or 'never will be's' will never close out opportunities like these. Take a look at them - despite Jota taking the plaudits (a striker we could have signed once upon a time), they closed out the game with the likes of Van Dijk, Henderson, Milner etc complementing the younger talents. We have none of that 'know how'


No European football after last season meant they could firmly concentrate on domestic cup competitions and the fight for a top four place in the Premier League.

Instead, the last fortnight has seen a miserable FA Cup third round shock at Championship side Nottingham Forest, and here was an opportunity squandered for a Wembley final to inject fresh momentum into their season.


I said at the time that this BS talk of being out of Europe was a good thing was exactly that. We will never (hopefully) play fewer games again in a season but if you have a lack of leadership, a novice manager and an imbalanced squad it will count for shit. Play 50 games finish 8th, play 60 games finish 8th. Winners want to be in Europe, not out of it. Small club mindset

Arsenal, as is their habit, flew out of the traps but once the superb Diogo Jota's scuffed finish put Liverpool in front after 19 minutes, there was a lack of conviction and self-belief about their work that was palpable.

Absolutely and still back to lack of nous and leadership. The pumped crowd shrivelled up the minute that goal went in, matching the body language of every one of the players. Zero conviction they can salvage anything from losing positions in these games - despite teams like Brighton and West Ham managing to achieve that on a fraction of the budget. Key difference = management and leadership

And yet again Arsenal showed that damaging streak of indiscipline, something Arteta either cannot or will not get to grips with. He needs to and fast.

How many times before it stops being an accident? He has done nothing with the Xhaka's of this world to suggest any consequence of on field ill discipline. Quite the opposite - he supports them even more.....and its costing us time and time again.


The article says "transition periods can't live forever". Wenger's Arsenal 2008-2018 were in transition for a decade - lack of leadership, failure to address a losing mindset, and having an imbalanced squad were all factors. I'm afraid 2 years into Arteta's journey I see all of the same traits and faults and an unwillingness to address any of it. Keep promoting youth, ignore leadership and poor discipline, get consistently dicked by the bigger clubs, cross fingers and hope for change

John F
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by John F »

wilson2.0 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:08 am
Ive seen promising signs with Arteta. The potential in the City game, the almost perfect transfer window, his handing of PEA and past handling of Ozil. But if he doesn't finish 4th this year, it needs to be a strike against his name. He wont be sacked. But for fuck sake if he doesn't get 4th this year then next season 4th is the bare minimum

In ESR, White, Gabriel, Tierney, Odegaard, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale plus generational talents Saka and Martinelli, we have a spine to build around. We cannot give Arteta unlimited time as players end up leaving. Wenger was naïve thinking Cesc ect would wait forever. & when it became apparently no progress was being made he and Nasri left in the same window & Wenger was caught by total surprise.

if we have players other clubs want to sign, we should be asking why we cant win with these players already on our books. If Cesc, Nasri and RVP were good enough to win the title at other clubs, why couldnt Wenger get near the title when he had all three players?

Our critics and Arsenal shitkickers like to say Saka, ESR and Martinelli need to leave Arsenal to win trophies. In essence saying Arsenal have three forward players worthy of winning trophies............so why cant they win them with us? Thats where the spotlight falls on Arteta.

We cant keep falling short. throwing away victory whether it was the City game, away to Man United, away to Everton, and falling short in games like today. The potential is obvious. But the next level needs to be reached, and that's qualifying for the CL & we wont do that unless we snap our habit of losing winnable games.

Thankfully Arteta isnt Wenger. He actually wants to win and is ambitious for it. Spending over 100m in the last transfer window without selling anyone of note, as well as the majority of signings being at the back with Ramsdale, White and Tomiyasu. When did Wenger ever invest that heavily at the back? Were putting the effort in for Vlahovic & working in Melo and that Lyon midfielder - this s all indicative of the right direction. But to my point, if he doesn't sign a midfielder and it costs us 4th. Then he needs to wear the strike.

We cant keep being a perpetual experiment & training ground
The biggest issue I have with Arteta is his inability to turn the team around during the match when they are going through a poor passage of play. Top managers can change things around at half-time and get the team to respond. I cannot remember Arteta doing this. If we fall behind then it is game over. Forest was a fine example of this, the awful football being played by Arsenal continued throughout the match.No response whatsoever from a halftime pep talk by Arteta. I am going to give him credit for the improvement of the backline with 3 of his signings in the summer although I would argue that the 50 mil spent on White would have been better spent on a midfielder. He may yet be able to assemble a good team out of the youngsters and other signings but in my mind, this tactically naive manager is too limited to take advantage.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

John F wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:01 pm
wilson2.0 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:08 am
Ive seen promising signs with Arteta. The potential in the City game, the almost perfect transfer window, his handing of PEA and past handling of Ozil. But if he doesn't finish 4th this year, it needs to be a strike against his name. He wont be sacked. But for fuck sake if he doesn't get 4th this year then next season 4th is the bare minimum

In ESR, White, Gabriel, Tierney, Odegaard, Tomiyasu, Ramsdale plus generational talents Saka and Martinelli, we have a spine to build around. We cannot give Arteta unlimited time as players end up leaving. Wenger was naïve thinking Cesc ect would wait forever. & when it became apparently no progress was being made he and Nasri left in the same window & Wenger was caught by total surprise.

if we have players other clubs want to sign, we should be asking why we cant win with these players already on our books. If Cesc, Nasri and RVP were good enough to win the title at other clubs, why couldnt Wenger get near the title when he had all three players?

Our critics and Arsenal shitkickers like to say Saka, ESR and Martinelli need to leave Arsenal to win trophies. In essence saying Arsenal have three forward players worthy of winning trophies............so why cant they win them with us? Thats where the spotlight falls on Arteta.

We cant keep falling short. throwing away victory whether it was the City game, away to Man United, away to Everton, and falling short in games like today. The potential is obvious. But the next level needs to be reached, and that's qualifying for the CL & we wont do that unless we snap our habit of losing winnable games.

Thankfully Arteta isnt Wenger. He actually wants to win and is ambitious for it. Spending over 100m in the last transfer window without selling anyone of note, as well as the majority of signings being at the back with Ramsdale, White and Tomiyasu. When did Wenger ever invest that heavily at the back? Were putting the effort in for Vlahovic & working in Melo and that Lyon midfielder - this s all indicative of the right direction. But to my point, if he doesn't sign a midfielder and it costs us 4th. Then he needs to wear the strike.

We cant keep being a perpetual experiment & training ground
The biggest issue I have with Arteta is his inability to turn the team around during the match when they are going through a poor passage of play. Top managers can change things around at half-time and get the team to respond. I cannot remember Arteta doing this. If we fall behind then it is game over. Forest was a fine example of this, the awful football being played by Arsenal continued throughout the match.No response whatsoever from a halftime pep talk by Arteta. I am going to give him credit for the improvement of the backline with 3 of his signings in the summer although I would argue that the 50 mil spent on White would have been better spent on a midfielder. He may yet be able to assemble a good team out of the youngsters and other signings but in my mind, this tactically naive manager is too limited to take advantage.
We've picked up 1 league point from a losing position this season - a 2-2 home draw with Palace when Lacazette came off the bench and scored a 94th minute equalizer. That's it - the sum total of points for a half season when we've been losing a match

In the cups we've been behind twice - Liverpool and Forest - and lost both teams

It really is the most leaderless and gutless group of players. Technically gifted and talented youngsters being let down by a consistent lack of leadership.

Mock the Spuds all we like but there's no way our team would be scoring 2 injury time goals to win a game. The heads would have dropped long before that. Can't be arsed to check but can't believe there's another "top team" with such a piss poor record when behind in games

That won't change if we sign a couple more 22 year olds either, but hey....what the f+++ would we know eh?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Redarmy »

Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.

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BFG4
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by BFG4 »

Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
This really sums up the club, rewarding someone who has done fuck all with us. I keep seeing twats online claim we are going in the right direction under Arteta but I don't see it. When we get to May we'll be back around 7th or 8th, and if the fuckwits running the club reward that sort of mediocrity then I'm done with the club.

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Arsenal Till I Die
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by Arsenal Till I Die »

Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
I hate this game.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by SteveO 35 »

The one thing I will say for Arteta is that he's absolutely mastered the "bullshit baffles brains" approach - the media, the owners and board, significant sections of the fanbase

If football is a results game then he and modern day Arsenal are surely the proof that it isn't everywhere

Even post lobotomy Wenger - the bloke who signed Mustafi, Xhaka and co - managed to finish 6th and keep us in the EL

Shit for Brains MKII is outspending every other Arsenal manager and can't get us higher than 8th

The notion that it's still someone else's team is a fucking nonsense too - Ramsdale, Tomyiasu, White, Gabriel, Tierney, Clive, Partey, Odegaard, Martinelli, Saka and Lacazette is his preferred starting XI. Just 2 Wenger players left. He's stuck with the best of the Emery signings Tierney and Martinelli, and the rest are his players. No Europe, out of the FA Cup at the first attempt.

What possible excuse will we have this time if he can't finish 6th or higher? As I said, Wenger at his absolute worst when 99.9% of us on here wanted him gone was capable of doing that and winning the odd FA Cup. I just can't understand the massive support from above, which is exactly why I give Arteta huge praise for his ability to sell himself despite every statistic and piece of logic being to the contrary

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by OneBardGooner »

Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


I was hoping this would be reviewed in May, fool that I am, but to offer him 2 more years before he has achieved anything other than the FA Cup? We are out of all competitions and will have to work some kind of miracle to secure Top 4.


The owners do not have a Scooby.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by DB10GOONER »

BFG4 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:12 am
Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
This really sums up the club, rewarding someone who has done fuck all with us. I keep seeing twats online claim we are going in the right direction under Arteta but I don't see it. When we get to May we'll be back around 7th or 8th, and if the fuckwits running the club reward that sort of mediocrity then I'm done with the club.
That's the thing. How is this progress? Season over in January and we'll probably finish anywhere from 5th to 8th. Even with Wenger at his worst I don't think we were ever done before January ended were we?

I think these people confuse some players going through periods of good form as progress as a team. It's not.

Just read that to yourselves again. Season over in January. JANUARY.

John F
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by John F »

OneBardGooner wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:48 am
Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


I was hoping this would be reviewed in May, fool that I am, but to offer him 2 more years before he has achieved anything other than the FA Cup? We are out of all competitions and will have to work some kind of miracle to secure Top 4.


The owners do not have a Scooby.
Your last sentence is probably the truth. If I was a Tiny Tott that news would have made my weekend.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

Post by BFG4 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:04 pm
BFG4 wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:12 am
Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:27 am
Arsenal will reportedly offer Mikel Arteta a new two-year deal in order to ward off interest from Manchester City who see the Spaniard as a potential replacement for Pep Guardiola.
This really sums up the club, rewarding someone who has done fuck all with us. I keep seeing twats online claim we are going in the right direction under Arteta but I don't see it. When we get to May we'll be back around 7th or 8th, and if the fuckwits running the club reward that sort of mediocrity then I'm done with the club.
That's the thing. How is this progress? Season over in January and we'll probably finish anywhere from 5th to 8th. Even with Wenger at his worst I don't think we were ever done before January ended were we?

I think these people confuse some players going through periods of good form as progress as a team. It's not.

Just read that to yourselves again. Season over in January. JANUARY.
Completely agree DB. I think most fans had accepted Arteta was out of his depth after the United and Everton shit shows but then we beat the average shit you'd expect us to beat and performed well against City and that was enough to convince most people Artera is worth having around for the next few years. It's always been strange to me that so many of our fanbase wanted Wenger gone because we rightly didn't accept mediocre as success but with Arteta they are happy to do so.

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