Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Nos89]

Arteta wasn't even in the top 50 managers who should have taken control of the club after Wenger or Emery. We did try a more experienced manager and it didn't work out. Although, it was emery who gave ESR, Saka and Martinelli their first team starts. Emery doesn't get enough credit for starting the "process" of shipping out ineffective players. Hopefully we will find out what went catastrophically wrong towards the end of his first season that saw us lose 3rd place with 4 games to go, and get hammered in the europa league final. Arteta steadied the ship and deserves the credit for a very good summer transfer window and being able to integrate the players into the squad and first team. Something Emery wasn't able to do as effectively. Would Tuchal, or Conte or everyone's favourite Allegri been able to do what Arteta has done by getting the squad numbers done and bring on the talent we had coming through the ranks, Tuchal is the only one who has shown better results at improving the squad of players he took over, and their squad was a lot bigger and had better players to work with.
Credit where credit is due, this current team is Arteta's team and defensively we are as tight as we have probably seen is 20 years. The style of play is improving, and seem eager to do better and win things, rather than coast along on big wages without really challenging.

[DB10GOONER]

Arteta wasn't even in the top 50 managers who should have taken control of the club after Wenger or Emery. We did try a more experienced manager and it didn't work out. Although, it was emery who gave ESR, Saka and Martinelli their first team starts. Emery doesn't get enough credit for starting the "process" of shipping out ineffective players. Hopefully we will find out what went catastrophically wrong towards the end of his first season that saw us lose 3rd place with 4 games to go, and get hammered in the europa league final. Arteta steadied the ship and deserves the credit for a very good summer transfer window and being able to integrate the players into the squad and first team. Something Emery wasn't able to do as effectively. Would Tuchal, or Conte or everyone's favourite Allegri been able to do what Arteta has done by getting the squad numbers done and bring on the talent we had coming through the ranks, Tuchal is the only one who has shown better results at improving the squad of players he took over, and their squad was a lot bigger and had better players to work with.
Credit where credit is due, this current team is Arteta's team and defensively we are as tight as we have probably seen is 20 years. The style of play is improving, and seem eager to do better and win things, rather than coast along on big wages without really challenging.

I'd agree with most of that. I do think however that Allegri or Simeone would have done at least as well if not better than Martinez-Lite. I do not for a minute doubt his genuine ambition or his hunger to win. What I do doubt is his experience and knowledge. I don't think he is equipped (yet) with the knowledge and experience and street smarts he requires to achieve what he wants to achieve. But I also fear that he thinks he has those requirements in place.

If he gets 4th that's the minimum acceptable for me in this current season, all things considered. But I would certainly take a punt on another season under him if he does. If he doesn't then - for me at least - he has to go. A club the size of Arsenal cannot be a place for a manager to learn his job - unless he is an exceptional manager that hits the ground running and learns that job very quickly.

[GoonerMuzz]

Arteta's inexperience is the crux of the matter. My opinion is he needs at least another 2-3 seasons as a Manager to really develop his 'identity' or whatever it's called.

Add to this a team of very young players all in the same boat as him in terms of their development and you have exactly what we are seeing on the pitch.

We have talent of that their is no doubt but you can blatantly see the inexperience as well especially in the decision making

The amount of times players like Martinelli or Saka end up running down blind alleys leaving themselves vulnerable to being tackled or blocked is striking. The number of times they take the extra touch to get in perfect position to shoot with the same result of being blocked is obvious too.

These things need to develop over time and there is an obvious correlation with Arteta's inexperience in that he is either not spotting these things and helping the players to improve it or they are not taking it on board.

Maybe our expectations should be lower I don't know but I believe a more experienced manager would have had a greater impact and by now we would be seeing a change in these areas I've highlighted above.

[DB10GOONER]

Arteta's inexperience is the crux of the matter. My opinion is he needs at least another 2-3 seasons as a Manager to really develop his 'identity' or whatever it's called.

Add to this a team of very young players all in the same boat as him in terms of their development and you have exactly what we are seeing on the pitch.

We have talent of that their is no doubt but you can blatantly see the inexperience as well especially in the decision making

The amount of times players like Martinelli or Saka end up running down blind alleys leaving themselves vulnerable to being tackled or blocked is striking. The number of times they take the extra touch to get in perfect position to shoot with the same result of being blocked is obvious too.

These things need to develop over time and there is an obvious correlation with Arteta's inexperience in that he is either not spotting these things and helping the players to improve it or they are not taking it on board.

Maybe our expectations should be lower I don't know but I believe a more experienced manager would have had a greater impact and by now we would be seeing a change in these areas I've highlighted above.

Agreed. I also think (or hope) a more experienced maybe more pragmatic manager would have gotten rid of Clive and replaced him with even a competent midfielder. And not left us with a thread bare squad. If two of Martinelli, Saka or Smith-Rowe pick up any kind of lengthy injury (or cataclysmic drop in form) I think we will see a collapse in our season because we do not have two players at that level in the squad.

Because of our thin squad we are on a razors edge between a reasonably improved season (getting 4th) and a disaster of a season (for me, 5th or lower) and I do not believe an experienced proven manager would have let us be in this precarious position.

[Nos89]

Arteta's inexperience is the crux of the matter. My opinion is he needs at least another 2-3 seasons as a Manager to really develop his 'identity' or whatever it's called.

Add to this a team of very young players all in the same boat as him in terms of their development and you have exactly what we are seeing on the pitch.

We have talent of that their is no doubt but you can blatantly see the inexperience as well especially in the decision making

The amount of times players like Martinelli or Saka end up running down blind alleys leaving themselves vulnerable to being tackled or blocked is striking. The number of times they take the extra touch to get in perfect position to shoot with the same result of being blocked is obvious too.

These things need to develop over time and there is an obvious correlation with Arteta's inexperience in that he is either not spotting these things and helping the players to improve it or they are not taking it on board.

Maybe our expectations should be lower I don't know but I believe a more experienced manager would have had a greater impact and by now we would be seeing a change in these areas I've highlighted above.

Your point about Saka and Martinelli is my frustration with them. This is why Saka needs to play on the left, Martinelli through the middle. When Saka moved to the left he done something we hadn't seen from him on the right wing, he cut in on his right and took a shot, and also takes on the FB on the outside and crosses with his left. He's got options and capabilities that make him more dangerous. We have a potential Balon D'or winner in our team. Arteta needs to recognise this and start him on the left. His goals and assists contribution will treble. Martinelli now needs the space to show his quality and playing on the wing is restricting him. Through the middle gives him more space to run into. ESR playing no.10 an in form Pepe on the left will give us goals. It's no coincidence that our goal output is greater when ESR is on the pitch.

[wilson2.0]

Call me crazy. But I think we can bag 6 points from our homes games against Leicester and Liverpool. Sure beating Leicester wouldn't be a surprise, mind you will be a tough game though. But I have a feeling we could derail Liverpool's title challenge. I feel like were building up to a big result and beating Liverpool could be it. Liverpool fans will be looking at their fixture list, counting down to their blockbuster game to City, and you can bet Arsenal away is the match that would give them the most anxiety.

[Gunner Rob]

I don’t see us beating Liverpool because our defence isn’t good enough at the moment.
I am getting a bit concerned by Ramsdale - he is not playing as well as he did earlier in the season.

Liverpool at home is the one match that I am not confident about at all - but even if we lose that I still think top 4 is very much on.

[wilson2.0]

He is actually coming across as a good manager. Who runs the team and is firmly in charge. I always thought he would be a soft touch but there is no doubt he is in control of the team. Contrast to Lampard who never took control of Chelsea, or Ole who never took control of Man United. He has a firm idea of how he wants to play and the players execute the strategy. The young players are improving week to week and the summer transfer window was perfect. January was a bad window, Vlahovic never wanted to join us, and he couldn't sign a midfielder. Lacazette and Xhaka are defiantly the problems in the starting 11. Although Lacazette has been among the assists and Xhaka hasnt hit the self destruct button in a while, although the concern is he will eventually. Despite the criticism, Xhaka is still our best option next to Partey. Not Elneny, not Lokonga, not ESR or Odegaard in a deeper role. Its Partey and Xhaka. Lack of squad depth doesn't worry me to much. We haven't played many games this season and dont look fatigued. We actually look fresh and sharp.

He must finish 4th this season, reinforce the squad and deal with the Lacazette/Xhaka situation. This is a set up season. Everything we doing this season is to position ourselves for the future seasons. If we miss 4th its a disaster.

But right now he is the best man for the job. Just look at Spurs and Conte - thats not a good fit. A team in need of rebuilding with a manager who throws a hissy fit because the team he manages isnt ready for a tittle challenge now. Did he not look at the league table and Spurs squad before accepting the job? What a knob. All he does is throw his own players under the bus to rationalize the poor results he gets. Jose does the same thing at Roma. All they do is talk about how the players arnt good enough, namely to excuse themselves for not being able to get better results.

[Gunner Rob]

He is actually coming across as a good manager. Who runs the team and is firmly in charge. I always thought he would be a soft touch but there is no doubt he is in control of the team. Contrast to Lampard who never took control of Chelsea, or Ole who never took control of Man United. He has a firm idea of how he wants to play and the players execute the strategy. The young players are improving week to week and the summer transfer window was perfect. January was a bad window, Vlahovic never wanted to join us, and he couldn't sign a midfielder. Lacazette and Xhaka are defiantly the problems in the starting 11. Although Lacazette has been among the assists and Xhaka hasnt hit the self destruct button in a while, although the concern is he will eventually. Despite the criticism, Xhaka is still our best option next to Partey. Not Elneny, not Lokonga, not ESR or Odegaard in a deeper role. Its Partey and Xhaka. Lack of squad depth doesn't worry me to much. We haven't played many games this season and dont look fatigued. We actually look fresh and sharp.

He must finish 4th this season, reinforce the squad and deal with the Lacazette/Xhaka situation. This is a set up season. Everything we doing this season is to position ourselves for the future seasons. If we miss 4th its a disaster.

But right now he is the best man for the job. Just look at Spurs and Conte - thats not a good fit. A team in need of rebuilding with a manager who throws a hissy fit because the team he manages isnt ready for a tittle challenge now. Did he not look at the league table and Spurs squad before accepting the job? What a knob. All he does is throw his own players under the bus to rationalize the poor results he gets. Jose does the same thing at Roma. All they do is talk about how the players arnt good enough, namely to excuse themselves for not being able to get better results.

I agree with a lot of that - was just thinking the other day that the transfer priorities this summer are:

1. Replacement for the Swiss turd
2. Replacement for Lacazette
3. Make sure we keep all of the young stars; ie Saka, Smith Rowe, Martinelli

Missing 4th from this position would clearly be a disaster - I have constantly stated on here that we will finish 5th because I thought either United or Spurs would be too strong. Hard to see either being at the moment. I fear Spurs the most though - they win that game v us and it will be a tense end to the season.

Arteta is grinding out the wins - I won’t be fully convinced by him until he is able to do so occasionally against the biggest teams though.

[Ernie71]

Year after year of finishing 4th under Wenger myself and many Gooners rightly wanted Wenger out now we have Arteta who after spending more money than any club in Europe last summer is struggling to get 4th place in a season when we had no European football to hinder us. .And the deluded are out praising Arteta. Does anyone really think we will finish top 4 next season if we have European football to play?. I dont

[SteveO 35]

The previous manager was accused of bottling it when the top 4 was in sight, so I'm afraid nothing less than a 4th placed finish from this current position would assure me there has been any tangible progress in the 2-3 years that have passed

Villa, Palace, Brighton and Southampton are the next 4 games for a team with no European or cup distractions, being 1 point ahead of Man United with 2 games in hand, 3 ahead of West Ham with 2 in hand, and 3 ahead of the scum with 1 in hand. Level goal difference with West Ham and better than the other two.

His little outburst about the re-arranged fixtures is a worrying sign for me when we are playing far fewer games than anyone else. West Ham for example with their tiny squad.....I expect them to be absolutely fucked after Thursday night and roll over against the vermin. Man U looked absolutely devastated after the Atletico loss.

The toughest games we have left to play are the Chavs and the Vermin away. Man U at home shouldn't be an issue for a club with serious top 4 ambitions

The other teams have equally or even tougher games left to play. United go to Anfield 4 days before they play us at the Emirates, and still have Chelsea to play too. West Ham still have to play Chelsea (a), City (h) and us away all in a matter of weeks in April and May, when they will possibly still be playing Thursday nights too. Spurs have to go to Anfield on 7th May and also face some sides that will be absolutely fighting for their lives at the time of the season when they come alive - Burnley for example.

Put simply - this is the easiest chance an Arsenal manager has had to finish top four in a long, long time and anything less from this position is greater failure than what has gone before......regardless of what expectations might have been at the start of the season

[DB10GOONER]

The previous manager was accused of bottling it when the top 4 was in sight, so I'm afraid nothing less than a 4th placed finish from this current position would assure me there has been any tangible progress in the 2-3 years that have passed

Villa, Palace, Brighton and Southampton are the next 4 games for a team with no European or cup distractions, being 1 point ahead of Man United with 2 games in hand, 3 ahead of West Ham with 2 in hand, and 3 ahead of the scum with 1 in hand. Level goal difference with West Ham and better than the other two.

His little outburst about the re-arranged fixtures is a worrying sign for me when we are playing far fewer games than anyone else. West Ham for example with their tiny squad.....I expect them to be absolutely fucked after Thursday night and roll over against the vermin. Man U looked absolutely devastated after the Atletico loss.

The toughest games we have left to play are the Chavs and the Vermin away. Man U at home shouldn't be an issue for a club with serious top 4 ambitions

The other teams have equally or even tougher games left to play. United go to Anfield 4 days before they play us at the Emirates, and still have Chelsea to play too. West Ham still have to play Chelsea (a), City (h) and us away all in a matter of weeks in April and May, when they will possibly still be playing Thursday nights too. Spurs have to go to Anfield on 7th May and also face some sides that will be absolutely fighting for their lives at the time of the season when they come alive - Burnley for example.

Put simply - this is the easiest chance an Arsenal manager has had to finish top four in a long, long time and anything less from this position is greater failure than what has gone before......regardless of what expectations might have been at the start of the season

100% bang on the money. I was one of the loudest critics of Dick for bottling that run in and he was rightly removed from the job. If anything this is an easier run in from a better position. Anything less than 4th is failure.

[augie]

I wonder at what stage this "inexperience" is going to stop being used as an excuse for him Arteta as a player was never world class, but what he was was an intelligent player who understood the game and what was happening around him - because of that I will accept inexperience as a defence on man management and some other off pitch issues, but his inability to recognise where things are going wrong on the pitch is nothing to do with inexperience imo. That being said, I did credit him for his substitutions against the victims, so maybe he is turning the corner

Btw the whinge about fixture congestion was cringy and embarrassing - we got the scum off against the scum for no good reason and now we are complaining about fixture pile ups ? Shut the fcuk up

[StuartL]

I wonder at what stage this "inexperience" is going to stop being used as an excuse for him Arteta as a player was never world class, but what he was was an intelligent player who understood the game and what was happening around him - because of that I will accept inexperience as a defence on man management and some other off pitch issues, but his inability to recognise where things are going wrong on the pitch is nothing to do with inexperience imo. That being said, I did credit him for his substitutions against the victims, so maybe he is turning the corner

Btw the whinge about fixture congestion was cringy and embarrassing - we got the scum off against the scum for no good reason and now we are complaining about fixture pile ups ? Shut the fcuk up

To be fair, he’s not moaning about fixture pile ups is he - he is saying we played Wednesday night and are expected to play Sat morning - not even afternoon or evening.
Most clubs who play Wed would get to play on the Sunday.

I agree that other clubs will have it worse, Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool all have Europe and the FA cup too, so will play more games in the short time span left for fixtures to be completed.

[wilson2.0]

I have been so impressed with not only the turn around of the team, but his attitude and the standards he sets. My biggest fear was he would be a push over, but he is clearly in control of the team. He has made some wonderful signings and he is a good tactician. We have a really good press & off the ball shape. Something we had never had with Wenger or Emery. I mean for fuck sake, we havent conceded from a corner all season, where as our defensive aptitude from set pieces used to be a running joke under Wenger

Other fans are starting to comment on his antics on the touch line - leaving the technical area and constantly issuing instructions. And when other fans are starting to take notice of these things, it means they are paying attention to Arteta. To that point, Arteta seemed to be involved in the game, where as Gerrard stood with his hands in his pockets looking like he was holding in a shit. Arteta is positive too. claps the team and encourages them. I used to loathe Wenger constantly berating the 4th official as it sent a negative vibe to the team.

Arteta is actually a quality manager in the making. He deserves being linked to the PSG job, mind you im not worried about him leaving.

I think the potential new deal offered to him is thoroughly deserved & I hope he signs it (he will - no danger of Arteta being swayed by PSG). I have no interest in discussing our managerial situation, its Arteta