Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

Brighton lose again. Dreadful out of possession again. Now wonder they are 15th for goals conceded in the league. Cant believe De Zerbi gets linked too top jobs. Would love it if Bayern sack Tuchel and steal Alonso from Liverpool, and Liverpool nosebleed a De Zerbi appointment.

'Lets give De Zerbi a go'

Wait why are we now conceding so many goals.

You are starting to post like a WUM now. Posting to provoke a negative reaction. And doing that while repeatedly ignoring the direct questions augie has asked you. You're walking a thin line buddy.

[nut flush gooner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

[augie]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

[wilson2.0]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

Yeah thats right, additions like Jesus and Zinchenko. Jesus has been a brilliant signing. We signed Zinchenko and when he started dropping into midfield in possession it was a catalyst for surging higher up the league table. Yet for some reason people would prefer Tierney in a traditional left back role. Your gaslighting telling people on here Jesus and Zinchenko haven't been poor signings. If you think they have been poor then their contribution and quality goes over your head. And for all these poor players Arteta has brought? Why for the second season in a row do we find ourselves in a title challenge?

How do you reconcile Arteta bringing in all these shit players and having shit tactics and us winning more games?

People just dont like Arteta. Im convinced if there was a button, and pushing it would mean bringing in Tony Adams to replace Arteta, some of you would push it.

[wilson2.0]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.

You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.

Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.

It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.

Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.

[nut flush gooner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?

Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.

[Retro Gunner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.

You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.

Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.

It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.

Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.

Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.

Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?

How do you rate his performances?

[Retro Gunner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?

Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.

Neither augie nor anyone else is "surprised" that they target Zinchenko and the huge gap that he leaves in the LB position when he's "inverted". Anyone with half a clue about the game would target him.

What's surprising is that Arteta plays him at LB, then inverts him and that he's the one that doesn't see that he'll be targeted. Doesn't it worry you that Arteta is failing to see what is obvious to you and everyone else?

[IW8Goalmachine]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

Yeah thats right, additions like Jesus and Zinchenko. Jesus has been a brilliant signing. We signed Zinchenko and when he started dropping into midfield in possession it was a catalyst for surging higher up the league table. Yet for some reason people would prefer Tierney in a traditional left back role. Your gaslighting telling people on here Jesus and Zinchenko haven't been poor signings. If you think they have been poor then their contribution and quality goes over your head. And for all these poor players Arteta has brought? Why for the second season in a row do we find ourselves in a title challenge?

How do you reconcile Arteta bringing in all these shit players and having shit tactics and us winning more games?

People just dont like Arteta. Im convinced if there was a button, and pushing it would mean bringing in Tony Adams to replace Arteta, some of you would push it.

Answer Augie's questions

[IW8Goalmachine]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.

You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.

Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.

It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.

Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.

Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.

Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?

How do you rate his performances?

He won't answer

[Retro Gunner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

But what duds are you referring to. Players like Tavares, Marqoinhos were signing for trivial amounts. Matt Turner was signed as a second choice keeper and was sold for a profit. Willian and Cedric, Mari ect were signed in the banter era when we needed players as no good players would join. But as we improved these players have been cycled out. Some posters name drop players like Tavares, Runnerson, Mari, Marqinhos, Turner to hit Arteta over the head with - totally redundant criticism.

You also get really terrible opinions on players like Zinchenko, White, Tomiyasu; all excellent signings yet some label them as flops and 'not good enough' when they totally are good enough.

Majority of Arsenal fans support Arteta (this is undeniable), and a few weeks ago when the fake reports broke he was resigning for the Barcelona job, rival fans were rejoicing.

It baffles me how some posters cannot see Arteta's qualities as a manager. Rather than look at our position in the league and the performances, we are reminded than a few years ago he signed Willian on a free, and Pabla Mari for 2m.

Id rather they just come out and say they dont like Arteta and would feel more comfortable with someone else as manager, even if that means not being competitive.

Out of interest Wilson, what's your opinion of Havertz? I notice that you never mention him.

Do you think that he was a good signing? Was he worth paying £65 million to Chelsea, who were off-loading him after 3 crap years and is he worth 300k per week?

How do you rate his performances?

He won't answer

Yeah I know, but it undermines his position when he consistently avoids the tough questions. We all see it.

[augie]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?

Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.

Surprised ?? Moi ?? I flagged it BEFORE we signed him that he isnt a good defender so I'm not surprised one jot. I dont actually blame zinchenko either cos if I and thousands of other Gooners can see that he is not a defender, why blame the player when it is the fool playing him there who should get the blame ? I dont doubt that Timber will play at left back, but again I will point out that he is by nature a right back or right sided centre back - why cant this prix play people in their proper positions ? How does it make sense to have a right footed left back and a right footed left winger ? Talk about condensing the middle

[Retro Gunner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?

Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.

Surprised ?? Moi ?? I flagged it BEFORE we signed him that he isnt a good defender so I'm not surprised one jot. I dont actually blame zinchenko either cos if I and thousands of other Gooners can see that he is not a defender, why blame the player when it is the fool playing him there who should get the blame ? I dont doubt that Timber will play at left back, but again I will point out that he is by nature a right back or right sided centre back - why cant this prix play people in their proper positions ? How does it make sense to have a right footed left back and a right footed left winger ? Talk about condensing the middle

He has a left footed winger, but plays him on the right.

[nut flush gooner]

Looking at how this thread has ebbed and flowed it seems that only a league title, will get the naysayers onside with Arteta. That's a high bar in today's football climate.

The lists of transfer duds under Arteta cannot be denied, some are subjective some are more clear-cut. But look back at Wengers prime years, you could probably compile a similar list of duds under the household names.

As things stand for me, Arteta has now got the team competitive and respected in footballing circles again. We rattle just about every other big fanbase right now, you see it after every big game all over Social Media. Klopp is going, Pep I suspect will be in a few years and that leaves the door open for us. Sooner or later with this crop of players plus a few additions we will hit the jackpot.

Additions like havertz ? Or jesus ? Or maybe zinchenko ? Reality is that our recruitment has been bang average for the most part (especially when you factor in type of money spent), and bang average recruitment wont win you leagues. Every manager buys duds, but as one of THE biggest wenger critics on here, let me say that no way had prime wenger years as many dud signings as peps cone boy had - we did as well as we did in those years because his recruitment was second to none and I'm not just talking about french players either. To compare his transfers (in his prime) to what we have seen in the last 3 or 4 seasons is totally wrong imo

I don't think any of those three players are duds, they all have contributed at different stages of the season. Gonna focus on Zinchenko because Havertz especially has been discussed to death. Zinny never was a LB, so why are you surprised that he gets targeted by other big teams when we try and play inverted from the left?

Guardiola made him a LB, he plays in the 8 for Ukraine and that is his best position when he doesn't have defensive duties. I wish Arteta would play him in that position tbh, and think the whole front line would benefit from it. There is no doubt, the defensive side of his game has affected Zinny's overall game this season but he has allowed us to play a brand of football that has taken us from fifth a few seasons back to challenging for titles over the last two seasons. When Timber comes back from his layoff Zin becomes a squad player, and I have no problems with that.

Surprised ?? Moi ?? I flagged it BEFORE we signed him that he isnt a good defender so I'm not surprised one jot. I dont actually blame zinchenko either cos if I and thousands of other Gooners can see that he is not a defender, why blame the player when it is the fool playing him there who should get the blame ? I dont doubt that Timber will play at left back, but again I will point out that he is by nature a right back or right sided centre back - why cant this prix play people in their proper positions ? How does it make sense to have a right footed left back and a right footed left winger ? Talk about condensing the middle

It was obvious as early as the Man Utd game last season away very early into his Arsenal career. That's why Tomi is the preferred LB when we play teams like Pool. And as I said Timber assuming he regains full fitness will solve the problem.

[TeeCee]

I think Arteta knows exactly the risks with Slugchenko at inverting LB, but I think he thinks the pro's outweigh the cons! The Slug is only there because Timber and Tomi have not been available, he's our 3rd choice LB really with Kiwior the 4th choice.