SHOULD WENGER BE UNDER MORE PRESSURE

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:57 pm

Anybody read myles palmers latest article today ? He refers to a programme that was on radio 5 (I think) about the state of our finances and the people on the radio confirmed that wengers statements about having to make a Â£20m+ transfer profit each season for the next 17 seasons is actually the truth. It goes on to say that edelman got the old heave ho because he built our finances around the property investments but now they have gone tits up we are in the shits

I know there will be many on here that will dismiss this as bullshit and who knows maybe they are right but would you be more inclined to believe what wenger says or what the suits in the boardroom say ? I know if this article is only even half true then I would personally lead the protest to remove these *word censored* from our boardroom on the spot

Post by **flash gunner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:03 pm

If this is true Augie then things at the club are not looking good at all, its not a knee jerk reaction but i think some sort of investor is needed ASAP or we could well slipping out of the top 4 let alone win the league

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) · Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:04 pm

augie wrote:Anybody read myles palmers latest article today ? He refers to a programme that was on radio 5 (I think) about the state of our finances and the people on the radio confirmed that wengers statements about having to make a Â£20m+ transfer profit each season for the next 17 seasons is actually the truth. It goes on to say that edelman got the old heave ho because he built our finances around the property investments but now they have gone tits up we are in the shits

I know there will be many on here that will dismiss this as bullshit and who knows maybe they are right but would you be more inclined to believe what wenger says or what the suits in the boardroom say ? I know if this article is only even half true then I would personally lead the protest to remove these c**ts from our boardroom on the spot

I don't know about the profits on the transfers but it could well be correct about the proerty - Edelman has invested in various property deals, not least the highbury development. Any investment made must now, at least be discounted by 20% even if there are no problems. Not to mention all the areas of development around the new stadium. That could be a major loss!

Concerning certainly!

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:40 pm

augie wrote:Anybody read myles palmers latest article today ? He refers to a programme that was on radio 5 (I think) about the state of our finances and the people on the radio confirmed that wengers statements about having to make a Â£20m+ transfer profit each season for the next 17 seasons is actually the truth. It goes on to say that edelman got the old heave ho because he built our finances around the property investments but now they have gone tits up we are in the shits

I know there will be many on here that will dismiss this as bullshit and who knows maybe they are right but would you be more inclined to believe what wenger says or what the suits in the boardroom say ? I know if this article is only even half true then I would personally lead the protest to remove these c**ts from our boardroom on the spot

If Wenger's meant to be raising Â£24m per year as profits on transfers, he's doing a very poor job.

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:59 pm

Wow, so that tabloid journalist wanna-be is jumping on the band wagon, is he?

Without even reading his article I can bet you that all he has done is regurjutate the so called 'facts' that the red tops wrote about a couple of weeks ago.

I could be totally wrong - although I doubt it - but I think you'll find it's more that the club have to find Â£20 odd million to pay off the interest on the loans. That has been common knowledge amongst those that have been paying attention. I presume that the money will come from the increased profit made from the larger turn-over that Arsenal now have.

I don't for one second believe that Arsenal need to make Â£24m pounds profit on transfers to pay off the debt. Like 26 May 1989 has already said, if that is so, then Wenger is making a poor fist of it.

Dennis10 · Post by **Dennis10** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:06 pm

Its rubbish that AW needs to create Â£24m a year from transfers. Our finances are very healthy and the money to pay off the interest on the stadium as well as repay the loan can come from many many other sources other than transfers. Maybe the Â£24m for 17 years is a accurate in order to be debt free, but like I said, the funds used to pay this off every year certainly dont need to be financed by transfers

Get on it

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:10 pm

Right, I forced myself to look up the ANR article for the sake of accuracy (unfortunately not something the tabloids or Myles Palmer are too bothered about, it seems) and this is the quote used:

"We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions â€”national and European â€”while having to free up - for seventeen more years - an annual surplus of Â£24m to pay for our stadium. The clubâ€™s strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.â€

Dennis10 · Post by **Dennis10** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:25 pm

exactly!

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:00 pm

Ok IHH suppose we ignore the financial aspect of that for a minute - are you agreeing that wenger has said that we are now going to be a club that is going to depend our youth/kids/rookies or whatever to try and bring us success ? Are you ok with that master plan ? Is this what the fans bought into when the plans for the new stadium were announced ? Where is all the bullshit about being able to compete in the transfer market with the manures,madrids and milans of the world gone to ? Is it remotely possible that that plan went down the khazi along with the windfall that we were going to get from the highbury redevopment as a result of the economic downturn ?

Magic Hat · Post by **Magic Hat** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:09 pm

once the stadium is paid off, it should be doing that, while we still have to pay off the stadium and wait for the flats to be sold, there was not much chance that we could spend on Kaka.

I have to admit, the building slump must be a concern. I don't think it cost Edelmen his job though

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:59 pm

Augie,

It's difficult to ignore the financial aspects as that was what your above post was predicated on. As I have shown, people have manipulated his comments and the fact is Wenger didn't make the statement regarding selling players for a transfer profit for the next 17 years in order to pay off the debt, that he was alleged to have made.

As for Wenger's statement saying that the club will be depending on kids, I think he means in the immediate and near future and not, as assumed by some and implied by others, for the whole 17 years.

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:32 am

The point everyone is missing is will 60,000 fans keep paying the highest ticket prices in the world to watch a youth team that is going to win nothing.Will Fabregas stay after next season?

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:57 am

donaldo wrote:The point everyone is missing is will 60,000 fans keep paying the highest ticket prices in the world to watch a youth team that is going to win nothing.Will Fabregas stay after next season?

That'll be the same "youth" team that got 83 points, the third highest points total ever achieved by an Arsenal side in the PL, better than the total which won us the league in 1998 and surpassed only by the 2002 and 2004 championship winning sides. It was also better than United's championship winning totals in 1996, 1997, 1999, 2001 and 2003.

Yeah, they were rubbish weren't they?! They have no chance of winning trophies at all.

Nobody misses the point that players may continue to leave during this transitionary stage - we've always got augie to remind us if it ever started to slip our minds. It's definitely a risk that more of this will happen, but even if it does, it's notable that we've managed to recruit one of French football's best emerging talents (Nasri) and one of Britain's (Ramsey).

But the strategy Wenger and the club have adopted for the purposes of the transition is to prioritise young players and a team ethic over star players. That doesn't mean recruiting some experienced or star players is excluded, it just means the priority is elsewhere. In a time of restrcted finance, pound for pound that probably makes sense. And by the way, that same youth-based strategy is precisely the reason Cesc is the world-beating player he is at such a young age. As Aragones said before Euro 2008, he is like a player of 28 because he has already had so much experience of top quality, competitive football. Would you prefer that Cesc had been restricted to a squad role until he got to 23/24?

If Wenger were to start to recuit lots of established star players (something I would like him to do, so long as the finances will bear it), where do you think the money to pay for it is going to come from? That will be us, and a 4.5% rise in ticket prices after a couple of years of no rises would be dwarfed by the increases necessary to support a Chelsea-like wage bill.

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:07 am

26may1989 wrote:
donaldo wrote:The point everyone is missing is will 60,000 fans keep paying the highest ticket prices in the world to watch a youth team that is going to win nothing.Will Fabregas stay after next season?
That'll be the same "youth" team that got 83 points, the third highest points total ever achieved by an Arsenal side in the PL, better than the total which won us the league in 1998 and surpassed only by the 2002 and 2004 championship winning sides. It was also better than United's championship winning totals in 1996, 1997, 1999, 2001 and 2003.

Yeah, they were rubbish weren't they?! They have no chance of winning trophies at all.

Nobody misses the point that players may continue to leave during this transitionary stage - we've always got augie to remind us if it ever started to slip our minds. It's definitely a risk that more of this will happen, but even if it does, it's notable that we've managed to recruit one of French football's best emerging talents (Nasri) and one of Britain's (Ramsey).

But the strategy Wenger and the club have adopted for the purposes of the transition is to prioritise young players and a team ethic over star players. That doesn't mean recruiting some experienced or star players is excluded, it just means the priority is elsewhere. In a time of restrcted finance, pound for pound that probably makes sense. And by the way, that same youth-based strategy is precisely the reason Cesc is the world-beating player he is at such a young age. As Aragones said before Euro 2008, he is like a player of 28 because he has already had so much experience of top quality, competitive football. Would you prefer that Cesc had been restricted to a squad role until he got to 23/24?

If Wenger were to start to recuit lots of established star players (something I would like him to do, so long as the finances will bear it), where do you think the money to pay for it is going to come from? That will be us, and a 4.5% rise in ticket prices after a couple of years of no rises would be dwarfed by the increases necessary to support a Chelsea-like wage bill.

We may well have won the title last season with some experienced old heads in the side.But as we all saw a few injuries we were fucked.That the point Wengers stubborness in not buying experience is costing us dearly.You"re right it was the 3rd highest total ever but the bar has been raised by Man Utd and Chelsea.Nasri and Ramsey COULD be great players but what we need our players who are good already I.E David Silva.At the end of the day we still finished 3rd last

season

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:25 am

donaldo wrote:We may well have won the title last season with some experienced old heads in the side.But as we all saw a few injuries we were fucked.That the point Wengers stubborness in not buying experience is costing us dearly.You"re right it was the 3rd highest total ever but the bar has been raised by Man Utd and Chelsea.Nasri and Ramsey COULD be great players but what we need our players who are good already I.E David Silva.At the end of the day we still finished 3rd last season

I agree, a couple of experienced players could have made the difference. But it's all about judgment and weighing the risks. Given that he has very little money to spend right now, Wenger needs to be very careful where he spends it (it's not stubbornness). So Anelka didn't represent good enough value, and Woodgate (given his injury record) likewise.

Undoubtedly, the squad is thinner than any of us would like, but that wasn't the only reason we finished 3rd last year (which in itself was at least two places higher than the pessimists predicted last summer): some people might call it whingeing but it is unarguable that we had very bad luck with injuries and decisions last year, and those factors played as big a part as weaknesses in the squad. Without that bad luck, even with the problems in the squad, we could easily have finished higher, maybe even won the league - a reverse of the OT defeat (a game in which we were the better team) and we would have been champions. Just one result and everything would have been different. I don't dispute that United were worthy champions but I wonder just how much criticism we would now be hearing if we had won the league.

This is all about money. Wenger is not to blame - if anyone is, it's the board for adopting a conservative policy rather than seeking outside investment. Financial stability is definitely a good thing, and resisting vultures like Usmanov too, but the board should be doing more to get benign investment in. In the absence of additional investment, Wenger's approach is the right one, and frankly it's amazing that we are able to compete at such a high level, when we are massively outspent not only by our rivals at the top, but also by most of the other teams in the PL and many of our European rivals.