Why The Gooner so negative?

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:14 pm

Hi Stu, good opening post, and welcome.

Although I'm a member of what some here call "the rose-tinted brigade" (I prefer "Wenger diehard" and call them the "Unrealists"), I agree with most of the responses to your ppost, I don't find The Gooner particularly negative. It has plenty of overly negative pieces but has positive ones too - in having "Catch Us If You Can" on the front page in February, it's even been blamed for causing the collapse in our 2007-8 season.

Much as I love this Forum, the negativity here is way worse than The Gooner itself. But then it tends to be confined to 30 or 40 of us who seem to have nothing better to do, so not much harm done. And the criticism of the club and board (as opposed to Wenger and the players) is often justified. Misinformation about the transfer budget is a particular gripe for me, as well as the embarrassing contributions of Peter Hill-Wood and the failure to ensure we have a strong enough batch of executives to back up Wenger and Ken Friar (at the last count, we are missing a Chief Exec, a Finance Director and a Director of Football). The negativity about Wenger and our on-field prospects is different though, and in my opinion is based on some very unrealistic expectations of what Arsenal can achieve at this stage of its development.

Also, I haven't read it for a while, but isn't the Highbury High more doom and gloom than The Gooner?

Galasso · Post by **Galasso** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:41 pm

26may1989 wrote:The negativity about Wenger and our on-field prospects is different though, and in my opinion is based on some very unrealistic expectations of what Arsenal can achieve at this stage of its development.

You been at a drying out clinic 26may1989?

With regards to the above, it depends what you mean by "its development".

If one believes AW and it was only a few issues relating to bad defending and bad luck that cost us the title, it is reasonable to expect that something is done to iron out those issues that can be affected. As it stands, the team is worse off in terms of experience, something which the manager bemoaned last season.

I'm afraid that I, like I suspect a few others, wanted some modest investment to improve those areas of the team where we have recognised weaknesses. Investment which would, and need not, have broken the bank considering we have lost Flamini, Gilberto and Lehman from the wage bill.

ktfjoe · Post by **ktfjoe** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:34 pm

Joining the firstposters here, and as a mate of kulastu it may not come as much surprise that I'm of a likeminded view on many things Arsenal. That's not to say we don't disagree at times as well but I do believe he's addressing an important issue here...

Now I'm not as well versed in The Gooner and it's history as he is so I'm in no position to really expand on his views there, but I do believe there is an air of negativity that's been slowly creeping around the Emirates over the last couple of years. The groans I've heard upon the announcement of Senderos' name, amongst others, being one example. The same can be said of Song, and for a time, Almunia just to pick a couple more examples. Almunia seems to have firmly won the majority over now, and is reaping the rewards - if we could get behind some others, then it would benefit the team too, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go through the team and defend every (apparently) unpopular player. Like the rest of you (excuse the presumption), I am regularly frustrated by Eboue's antics and the negative impact they have on the team and, despite his good game on Saturday, would still rather play a team without him.

I just think some positivity wouldn't go a miss.

The regular complaints about a lack of experience. Yes, we've lost 3 players I would call experienced and another who I was sorely disappointed to lose, however would not suggest is a massive loss of experience, despite his fantastic Champions League run. Let's not forget many were willing to let Flamini go last year, the club included.

People point to the age of the squad as an indicator. Age & experience are two different things. Bendtner is far from the perfect striker but what he learned last year will certainly be of benefit this year, as evidenced in pre-season, though granted that's not always the greatest benchmark. Theo likewise.

Nasri has come in with almost 150 games under his belt for Marseille and is a French international. Not experience up to standard of a Gilberto or Lehmann admittedly, but hardly to be sniffed at. All that said, another midfielder certainly wouldn't go amiss.

I also believe, without taking anything for granted, that the start we've been handed to this season also gives an opprtunity for the less experienced to gain experience while others recover without hindering the team.

To bring this long-winded rant to it's conclusion, I know this probably lumps me firmly in the 'rose tinted' brigade, but I don't believe I'm rose tinted, just optimistic. And optimism, in my experience, is a major contributing factor in bringing results in any industry.

Sorry for the long rant, if you've made it this far, then thank you!

We're all the same boat. You are my Arsenal. KTF.

tinpot lane · Post by **tinpot lane** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:39 pm

That's the general mood i get off here from a large number of posters.

Calo · Post by **Calo** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:44 pm

keep up the good work please

NBM · Post by **NBM** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:04 pm

ktfjoe wrote:Joining the firstposters here, and as a mate of kulastu it may not come as much surprise that I'm of a likeminded view on many things Arsenal. That's not to say we don't disagree at times as well but I do believe he's addressing an important issue here...

Now I'm not as well versed in The Gooner and it's history as he is so I'm in no position to really expand on his views there, but I do believe there is an air of negativity that's been slowly creeping around the Emirates over the last couple of years. The groans I've heard upon the announcement of Senderos' name, amongst others, being one example. The same can be said of Song, and for a time, Almunia just to pick a couple more examples. Almunia seems to have firmly won the majority over now, and is reaping the rewards - if we could get behind some others, then it would benefit the team too, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go through the team and defend every (apparently) unpopular player. Like the rest of you (excuse the presumption), I am regularly frustrated by Eboue's antics and the negative impact they have on the team and, despite his good game on Saturday, would still rather play a team without him.

I just think some positivity wouldn't go a miss.

The regular complaints about a lack of experience. Yes, we've lost 3 players I would call experienced and another who I was sorely disappointed to lose, however would not suggest is a massive loss of experience, despite his fantastic Champions League run. Let's not forget many were willing to let Flamini go last year, the club included.

People point to the age of the squad as an indicator. Age & experience are two different things. Bendtner is far from the perfect striker but what he learned last year will certainly be of benefit this year, as evidenced in pre-season, though granted that's not always the greatest benchmark. Theo likewise.

Nasri has come in with almost 150 games under his belt for Marseille and is a French international. Not experience up to standard of a Gilberto or Lehmann admittedly, but hardly to be sniffed at. All that said, another midfielder certainly wouldn't go amiss.

I also believe, without taking anything for granted, that the start we've been handed to this season also gives an opprtunity for the less experienced to gain experience while others recover without hindering the team.

To bring this long-winded rant to it's conclusion, I know this probably lumps me firmly in the 'rose tinted' brigade, but I don't believe I'm rose tinted, just optimistic. And optimism, in my experience, is a major contributing factor in bringing results in any industry.

Sorry for the long rant, if you've made it this far, then thank you!

We're all the same boat. You are my Arsenal. KTF.

Good first post KTF. Welcome. Wayno, Rebel, Spuddy et al will have you talking less sense soon.........eventually you'll just post tit pictures like the rest of us!

ktfjoe · Post by **ktfjoe** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:37 pm

NBM wrote:
ktfjoe wrote:Joining the firstposters here, and as a mate of kulastu it may not come as much surprise that I'm of a likeminded view on many things Arsenal. That's not to say we don't disagree at times as well but I do believe he's addressing an important issue here...

Now I'm not as well versed in The Gooner and it's history as he is so I'm in no position to really expand on his views there, but I do believe there is an air of negativity that's been slowly creeping around the Emirates over the last couple of years. The groans I've heard upon the announcement of Senderos' name, amongst others, being one example. The same can be said of Song, and for a time, Almunia just to pick a couple more examples. Almunia seems to have firmly won the majority over now, and is reaping the rewards - if we could get behind some others, then it would benefit the team too, no?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go through the team and defend every (apparently) unpopular player. Like the rest of you (excuse the presumption), I am regularly frustrated by Eboue's antics and the negative impact they have on the team and, despite his good game on Saturday, would still rather play a team without him.

I just think some positivity wouldn't go a miss.

The regular complaints about a lack of experience. Yes, we've lost 3 players I would call experienced and another who I was sorely disappointed to lose, however would not suggest is a massive loss of experience, despite his fantastic Champions League run. Let's not forget many were willing to let Flamini go last year, the club included.

People point to the age of the squad as an indicator. Age & experience are two different things. Bendtner is far from the perfect striker but what he learned last year will certainly be of benefit this year, as evidenced in pre-season, though granted that's not always the greatest benchmark. Theo likewise.

Nasri has come in with almost 150 games under his belt for Marseille and is a French international. Not experience up to standard of a Gilberto or Lehmann admittedly, but hardly to be sniffed at. All that said, another midfielder certainly wouldn't go amiss.

I also believe, without taking anything for granted, that the start we've been handed to this season also gives an opprtunity for the less experienced to gain experience while others recover without hindering the team.

To bring this long-winded rant to it's conclusion, I know this probably lumps me firmly in the 'rose tinted' brigade, but I don't believe I'm rose tinted, just optimistic. And optimism, in my experience, is a major contributing factor in bringing results in any industry.

Sorry for the long rant, if you've made it this far, then thank you!

We're all the same boat. You are my Arsenal. KTF.
Good first post KTF. Welcome. Wayno, Rebel, Spuddy et al will have you talking less sense soon.........eventually you'll just post tit pictures like the rest of us!

Sounds like my kinda place!

perry groves was a legend · Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:08 pm

I have to say that I found this issue far too negative, though I've never had a problem with any past issue really.The only thing that was different in this one was that it was the same oppinion rehatched for a load of articles and I think only 1 or 2 that were positive(and even they had bits of negativity in it!).Overall though the gooner is a quality read.Hopefully when the end of season one comes out,their negative articles will look rather ridiculous!!

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:14 pm

Negativity doesn't invent itself lads. There are reasons why alot of your fellow Gooners are not feeling overly optomistic about this season.

For me, mostly it is the fact that our squad (that wasn't strong enough to win anything last year) has actually been weakened in the key area of experience. No one on here is being negative or pessimistic for the sake of it, we are raising genuine concerns.

Magic Hat · Post by **Magic Hat** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:28 pm

I thought we just liked to whine about something?

On the forum, there is a friendly, if sometimes heated, split between the rose tinted ones like myself and the doom and gloomers like gus. Part of the beauty of the forum is we can instantly respond

the magazine itself can only print what is sent in. If the articles are too negative then send in a positive one as gus suggested.

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 pm

This Forum has a more negative than positive bias.

It reflects how many fans are feeling at the moment.

I am one of the otpimistic types, but even I am desperate for us to sign a new ball winning midfielder.

I would be happy with a tall centre back and perhaps a right sided midfielder too.

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:28 pm

Gooner.ed,

Why no Dwight Hart Lane in the last issue?

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:34 pm

I Hate Hleb wrote:Gooner.ed,

Why no Dwight Hart Lane in the last issue?

I'm a big fan too.
The reason the gooner is so negative is because Augie lives in Ireland. He created a fanzine and an alter ego because he had an Arsenal-related hole as he couldn't get to games. He pays an actor on matchdays to go round meeting people and writes books in his spare time. He controls the Gooner, and is therefore able to make it incredibly negative.

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:38 pm

Bloody hell, any more new joiners like kulustu and ktfjoe, and this forum will become a bastion of reason and balance.... Welcome to you too Joe, I agree with pretty much everything you say - I don't mind debating the rights and wrongs of our squad and prospects on this forum, in pubs, at work etc, but I also have become increasingly worried about the emergence of hecklers and whiners at the Grove. And to be fair to those here who are negative about on-field issues, they also don't like those who slag off players and Wenger at matches.

But my worry is that Arsenal fans' unrealistic expectations about repeating The Invincibles and the like within the next two years or so, and those who adopt the tabloids' agenda about "Arsenal haven't won a trophy for x years", will create momentum for Wenger to be targeted for the sack if we don't win the league this year (which we might not), despite the incredibly restrictive financial limitations that have applied for a few years and will apply for a couple of more years.

DB10GOONER wrote:Negativity doesn't invent itself lads. There are reasons why alot of your fellow Gooners are not feeling overly optomistic about this season.

For me, mostly it is the fact that our squad (that wasn't strong enough to win anything last year) has actually been weakened in the key area of experience. No one on here is being negative or pessimistic for the sake of it, we are raising genuine concerns.

See DB, that's just wrong - just because we didn't win the league doesn't mean that we weren't strong enough to win it. We missed out by narrow margins, did fantastically well, and but for injuries and bad decisions, could easily have got the four points to win the league, even with much more limited finances than most of the other PL teams (let alone the teams we were actually competing with at the top).

Post by **DB10GOONER** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:53 pm

26may1989 wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:Negativity doesn't invent itself lads. There are reasons why alot of your fellow Gooners are not feeling overly optomistic about this season.

For me, mostly it is the fact that our squad (that wasn't strong enough to win anything last year) has actually been weakened in the key area of experience. No one on here is being negative or pessimistic for the sake of it, we are raising genuine concerns.
See DB, that's just wrong - just because we didn't win the league doesn't mean that we weren't strong enough to win it. We missed out by narrow margins, did fantastically well, and but for injuries and bad decisions, could easily have got the four points to win the league, even with much more limited finances than most of the other PL teams (let alone the teams we were actually competing with at the top).

And there's the problem with the rose tinters... Read what you just wrote!!! Strong enough?? We were NOT strong enough to win it, that is why we finished 3rd.

The team that was strong enough to win it, won it. End of.

Football is a results driven business. "Nearly" counts for sweet fuck all in the real world. "Nearly" got Dalglish sacked at Toon, "Nearly" got O'Leary sacked at Leeds. "Nearly" got Ranieri sacked at the Chavs. "Nearly" got 853 managers in ten years sacked at the spuds.

You mentioned injuries? So then, you would agree we did not have the strength and depth in the squad to deal with those injuries and properly cover those areas affected?? Unlike manure and the chavs who both finished ahead of us if I'm not mistaken...

Bad decisions??

Oh, dear God. Are you serious? No team fails to win the league because of bad decisions. Sorry, no. You are wrong there. That is a cop out. Bad decisions and good decisions balance out over the course of a season and every team can point to bad decisions made against them throughout the year.

I really cannot believe that anyone - optomist or realist - can deny that we are going into this season with a less experienced playing staff than last season.

Sure, we played some lovely football, we surprised alot of people and we gave it our best shot last season, but we failed to win anything; that is the cold hard fact. We were humiliated in both cups, found wanting in the CL and failed to beat our two main rivals when it mattered the most in the PL. Fact.