As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Can we just forget it now?
Maybe I overreacted to whatI perceived as an overreaction!
Gus I actually agreed with you and was actually very taken aback by the criticism of what I had posted. It was posted with no malice in mind and I had not set out to offend anyone. I was very suprised that people felt so strongly that they had to condemn as opposed to simply ignoring the post. Part of me wanted to say fuck it I am not deleting the pictures but I quite like Quartz and respect the majority of his posts, thats why I chose to delete them.
So you dont "quite like me and respect the majority of my posts" then Wayno?
I didnt condemn you, I did ignore the Anne Franks book the first time (hence my comment on Augies only), and merely agreed with Quartz when he said he found it upsetting, and tried to explain why.
This then blew up into a "what is acceptable to who" discussion.
We have all agreed to let this one run its natural course, so can we let it lie now guys?
gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Can we just forget it now?
Maybe I overreacted to whatI perceived as an overreaction!
Gus I actually agreed with you and was actually very taken aback by the criticism of what I had posted. It was posted with no malice in mind and I had not set out to offend anyone. I was very suprised that people felt so strongly that they had to condemn as opposed to simply ignoring the post. Part of me wanted to say fuck it I am not deleting the pictures but I quite like Quartz and respect the majority of his posts, thats why I chose to delete them.
So you dont "quite like me and respect the majority of my posts" then Wayno?
I didnt condemn you, I did ignore the Anne Franks book the first time (hence my comment on Augies only), and merely agreed with Quartz when he said he found it upsetting, and tried to explain why.
This then blew up into a "what is acceptable to who" discussion.
[b]We have all agreed to let this one run its natural course, so can we let it lie now guys?[/quote]
I was not involved but this would seem to be the most sensible course of action here guys and gals?
gus ceasar is a legend wrote:Can we just forget it now?
Maybe I overreacted to whatI perceived as an overreaction!
Gus I actually agreed with you and was actually very taken aback by the criticism of what I had posted. It was posted with no malice in mind and I had not set out to offend anyone. I was very suprised that people felt so strongly that they had to condemn as opposed to simply ignoring the post. Part of me wanted to say fuck it I am not deleting the pictures but I quite like Quartz and respect the majority of his posts, thats why I chose to delete them.
So you dont "quite like me and respect the majority of my posts" then Wayno?
I didnt condemn you, I did ignore the Anne Franks book the first time (hence my comment on Augies only), and merely agreed with Quartz when he said he found it upsetting, and tried to explain why.
This then blew up into a "what is acceptable to who" discussion.
We have all agreed to let this one run its natural course, so can we let it lie now guys?
Basil, if I choose to respond to a post that I originally started then I will do so thanks, just because you suggest that we all drop it doesn't mean that I am not entitled to respond. You will see that I had waited a number of days to comment on the reactions of others, I have very strong feelings on his whole subject yet believe that I made the right decision to delete the pictures and avoid what would be a very immotive argument. Yes I do respect you Basil but as you pointed out, it was Quartz that initially showed discomfort with the pictures and it was he that I was responding to. Sorry if I dented your ego by not including you.
augie wrote:Thanks to the mods I didnt see the original pics but again I do feel that sometimes the world is far too sanitised for my liking. I can understand that some people do get offended and/or find a joke in bad taste but show me a joke that doesnt offend somebody. For countless years their have been millions of irishman jokes but as a race of people we have either ignored them or come back with a response of our own. Surely even in the true story jokes there is somebody that is the "victim" as the butt of the jokes and that person could easily get offended ?
My own theory is laugh if you find the jokes funny or ignore them if you dont
Hiya, Augie.
I personally love Irish jokes. And I love the Irish.
Many years ago, an Irishman told me that a whole lot of "Irish" jokes actually were born in Ireland. And they were known as "Kerryman" jokes.
Is that right?
By the way, I also love jokes that take the piss out of your typical Englishman/Cockney type character. I don't take offence at all. If you can't laugh at your own national (perceived) traits, then something is seriously wrong with your sense of humour, IMO.
National stereotype jokes are widespread...not just Irish jokes, but there are plenty of such type jokes between Nigerian and Ghanaians here too, and I am told that The French and Belgians have similar type joke.
Those kind of jokes I usually do just fire back an answer, and as DB10 says, if it is said with a tongue in cheek tone then it remains banter.
The one book title on the thread that offended me and Basil was not that type though...it was about Anne Frank and though I know Wayno meant no malice by it, and thank fully removed it, it got into an argument between me and Basil on one side and Gus on the other.
What riled me was that Gus did not see my point of view. No that he had a different one, but that he mocked mine.
It got personal.
When people say that Pancho got banned cos he mocked someones family members death, this was the same thing to me.
Wayno removed it which was good, and I thanked him.
But I am still mad at Gus...because if you are reading Gus, I cannot understand how you would be so disrespectful of me being offended?
I just cannot grasp it.
You then accused me of being pretentious on this site...in what way, please elaborate?
Where is the personal antipathy you have for me from? I have never met you!
I have had big arguments here with IHH and Augie...but the arguments are at least constructive, and if I make a point they will break that point down, come back at me, and then I do the same.
We have not always agreed, even after a few pages of argument, but they lay out their points in a logical manner, and there is no personal disrespect involved in the arguments.
But Gus you ended up just replying with sarcasm and personal disrespect.
I don't know how old you are, but I think you are early 40's. Not a teenager who writes insults on the web in text message speak.
Quartz, I do not quite know where you're coming from. You explained why you found the image offensive and Gus thought you were being oversensitive. While I commend Wayno for taking it down I still think that you should have interpreted the images in the manner they were posted. As I did with the christian image. But as I said earlier, I don't have your history or culture so I cannot judge you on that.
I think Gus had it in his right to air his opinion that you were being too sensitive. I can't see how you can liken Gus' actions to Panto who kept pressing a forum member over the offense caused by his remarks about the meber's recently deceased mother. I think you need to get over yourself if you actually believe there is a justifiable comparison.
sorry quartz but after reading all the pages now on this thread i still couldn't agree with you, what is banter its when a joke is said that is without malice, and waynos thread was done without malice, it was a joke and enjoyed by all bar you it seems, like db10 the amount of anti irish joke stuff i had to listen too in london when i was here in the 80s was unreal, but was done tongue in cheek, a bit like waynos thread, you are a very sensible poster and your points come across very well but i feel this time you were wrong
Do you really have to drag this up Quartz when I have already said let's leave it in the past and others ? As you have though I will respond as I do not believe in standing mute.
I was pissed off because there was a dozen or so book titles and a number of people on here could have taken offence to anyone of them. Other religions were mocked, homphobic suggestions, sexist material and others were all included.
Nobody else though felt the need to point out a certain title bothered them. It was taken with a pinch of salt and either laughed at in the spirit it was intended in or simply ignored. You though decided to make a point of your feelings towards a book title that offended you. Why? I have heard jokes about Anne Franks on every major TV station from various comedians. If the subject is so taboo in this PC age would they have allowed them to be broadcast if it was deeply offensive? Also, if you are so offended by this or any other joke related to Jews, I take it you have taken the time and effort to write to the broadcaster to make your feelings known? Exactly why you had to do this I do not know.
Was you hoping to highlight your feelings so the entire forum changes it's attutude and remembers your feelings when posting anything that you may find offensive? Was you hoping that we as a forum, would now consider the plight of Anne Franks and warn any future offenders of the distress this material causes you? You see I really have no idea what you hoped to gain by telling us all that you found that light hearted book title offensive. The joke about Anne Franks playing hide and seek is as old as time itself and so well used that it is a throw away comment. Not malicious, not disrespectful and in no way anti-semetic. I suggest that if you find this very light mickey taking about a Jewish subject so offensive that you also make Guy Ritchie aware that his character in Lock Stock played by Mike Reid who sells the diamonds is not acceptable.
You see Quartz the majority of us live our lives with a degree of tolerance. We accept a bit of piss taking and banter whether aimed at us personally or at our own social demographic. The Irish lads on here, the scouse fan on here. the older crowd on here or the fat lads on here. Harmless, trivial make the day go quicker laughs. I believe that is the spirit that makes this forum work and so popular. If we was all to complain about any remark or joke that we may find distasteful we may as well pack up now and fuck off to the official site. We don't though and remember that whilst any forum has rules and regulations, it is the people who use this who make it and if that doesn't suit a small minority then maybe this is not the forum for them. I am in no way suggesting you leave Quartz but if your stance on such trivia is so strong then there will be battles and outcry everyday. This forum is the way it is because this is how the majority like it! If you do not want to risk being offended then simply choose to not look at threads which are obviously jokey and non-football related. Yes, I agree that some Arsenal threads do turn into something more lighthearted at times but at least you will be giving yourself a fighting chance.
And to clarify the pretentious and moderator crusade comments.......
It was pretentious of you to feel that by making your feelings known we should all change our opinion and attitudes and so remove the offending article. The vast majority of the forum had enjoyed the joke and were happy with it. Why should their enjoyment be nullified because of you? Added to this I find your demeanour on here at times slightly arrogant. The way you come across is often aloof as if you are a higher authority on all things Arsenal. This is highlighted when you put down others comments when you have top secret info from your man on the inside. Info that I will add hardly ever comes to fruition. I do enjoy reading some of your posts and they can make sense and are without exception well written, but I have to say again I find the context they are written often pretentious (highlighted by your remark that I "write in text message speak", who is getting personal now?). I will lastly say on this that the death of Anne Franks can in no way be found as personal as the death of someones father and I would find that comment laughable if it wasn't seriously suggested.
As for the moderator comment, you will probably remember how I have remarked to you on more than one occasion in the Further Discussion forum your need to tell people where to post items. Yes, the main content of that forum is Gooner Ed's threads with regards to Gooner articles but it is not exclusive to that. Being understanding, I can see that some people may not enjoy this particular forum and want simply no nonsense and strictly Arsenal talk. All well and good, none of us are the same. That is why they place their often very serious and well thought articles in Further Discussion. I do not know why you have the right to tell them not to put it there and that it should be in the General area? Your site? No! Are you an administrator who makes the rules? No! Are you a moderator? No! So why? Gooner Ed is in that section day in and day out. If an item was to be moved elsewhere I am sure Ed is capable of transferring it or making the author aware of the best place to post it. But he does not, so why you?
Anyhow I will finish by saying I really didn't want to write this as no doubt it will cause more controversy but you asked so fuck it here it is. If it offends then I apologise but I stand by what I say!
Last edited by gus ceasar is a legend on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
What Gus is saying is absolutely right in regard to anyone whinging about obviously jocular posts as if they were the most malicious indictments imaginable.
I already made a small point about it on this thread but it really is a terrible thing when the majority bow to the will of a minority with whom they share equal rights.
