11 DAYS OF HOPE & STRESS

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Not a problem Magic Hat!

Im sorry if I was forthright.

[Eboue Can't Defend]

..I understand everyone has diffrent views on the subject but instead of complaining about everything Arsenal do let get behind them (NOT IN A GAY WAY)

All Arsenal 1886,

Don't you get it yet?, that's the problem!! If anyone writes anything remotely sounding like a questioning of what Arsene or the Arsenal Board are doing we are accused of 'complaining about everything Arsenal do!!'

Do you seriously think that because you and some of the others think everything Arsene does is right and blindly take everything Arsene and the Board says as gospel, you are more of a supporter than those of us who do have fears and questions that we feel need answering?

Compared to a lot of us, you have only been 'supporting' the team for a few years - and they happen to have been quite successful years in comparison to what we have been through. Therefore, if you don't mind the patronising: You don't know feck all about what it's like to see the side struggle and be also rans when it came to challenging for the major honours. Those of us that do, don't want those days to return but fear they will if we don't do something about it. If the only way to handle that fear is expressing our discontent via forums - which is what they were set up for - then let us do so without the accusations of disloyalty and betrayal.

Indeed, I would go as far as to say that those of us that are worried and expressing our concern are probably more loyal than those of you that are happy to live in the land of the perpetually content, even if the view is mediocre.

Even worse is the accusation that because we might have doubts about the ways things are currently being handled, it automatically means we don't trust and respect Wenger and want him replaced!! For the record, we don't want Wenger to leave but we do want him to spend money
strengthening the squad because we don't think it's good enough to realistically challenge for the title. Wenger as good as admitted so otherwise why the 'super-class players' comment if he felt we didn't need them to supplement what we already have?

Please get this one thing straight before writing anymore posts berating writers for daring to question things: It's precisely because we care so much - maybe too much - that we write and say what we do, not because
we don't care. Any questioning of our loyalty to Arsenal Football Club and Arsene Wenger is not only wrong, but bang out of order as well!!

[All_Arsenal_1886]

Sorry ECD i wasn't questioning your loyalty, i think if you meet me and i spoke to you things would seem alot diffrent, i don't think what i say on here comes out right if i disaproved of what was said i wouldn't come on here no more but i don't and i love the forum (the best by far) and the people on it.

I understand what you say about me only supporting arsenal for 10 or so years i have been extreamly lucky and had fantastic years supporting them the last two years have been very weird for me seeing a team i love struggle, your right i have never seen that before.

Sometimes when i read postings on here i feel like most are saying that we are not a big club no more and that we should settle for 4th but i don't see that (probley because i have those Arsenal Glasses on) but i personlly feel that our club is stronger that last season and they all seem to be growing in confidence, which can't be a bad thing.

i have done my fare share of moaning on here aswell, i want signings, i want arsene to sort his contract and i want the board to be more honest, so thats probley why i get pissed of because everything seem so negitive round the club at the moment.

My love for arsenal grows stronger and stronger each day its mad but true, last year when i was in hospital with a blood clot and couldn't see, the doctor told me i might not get my eye sight back, the first thing i though was not being able to go watch Arsenal, that was it didn't think about my family just about myself and arsenal

im going on abit now and cant remember what else i wanted to say, So sorry to anyone who i may of pissed off, but im a nice guy really

right now to consentrate on winning against City on Saturday i'm bringing a 'girl mate' with me (who has never been football before, so im trying to get her to support Arsenal lol) is this a good idea

Cheers ECD i'll take what you said on board

[Eboue Can't Defend]

All Arsenal 1886.

Listen mate, I know you are a nice guy and are only trying to be positive. And I am glad that there are some people on the forum that are full of positivity. I just wish I could be as full of faith that things will turn out alright in the end as you lot are.

But then again, I am by nature one of lifes pessimists. You see, experience has taught me that if I think that way, I save myself from any unexpected surprises if things don't work out how I would want them to. Sad I know, but it is a thought process that has helped me handle the bad times, and enables me to still enjoy the good times when things do pan out.

Anyway, apologies if I upset you with my previous post. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to make clear my frustration at the implication that because some of us don't think everything is rosy in the Ashburton garden, we are somehow less loyal or even not worthy of supporting Arsenal.

Please keep being positive about the Arsenal, but at the same time do allow the rest of us to be how we want to be.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

You have to be very careful when debating topics that what info you use to deabate is either informed or fact. There is also very little point in debating events etc that will not happen. I have been fully expexting to see a....

HOW MANY POINTS WILL WE WIN THE LEAGUE BY?

debate with an attached poll giving the options of 20, 30 and 40 points!

Yes I am critical of Arsenal right now and that is simply due to my feelings we are all being lead a merry dance and in my opinion Wenger is in on the act!

All is not rosy in the Ashburton garden! Dein leaving and the fall out created. Legends leaving the club, rightly or wrongly, but commonly commenting negatively on the club. If I am honest I think we have a lesson to learn....why were the players so close to a board member? Is that normal? To me it doesn't strike of good practise.whatever the vibes being broadcast from those guys that were in the inner circle are not encouraging!

Why does Mr Grimandi come with statements about Arsene taking on too much and how all have to rally around him?

Why several years ago was a striker of Wiltord's class £11m price tag acceptable but that price today is to steep for an Anelka or Martins? Regardless of if you want them or not, but be clear a striker is needed, the statements don't add up!

Why have players like Ribery slipped through our net? Why have we not strengthened our squad! Yes sure Sagna looks a fantastic addition so far but did we all hope that a class right back would allow Eboue to play right midfield? I'm sorry but Eboue can only ever be seem as the poor mans choice to Ribery, Malouda or Babel!

There are more problems that I could could harp on about, most have the root cause of finance, but I won't! For all of you there is a simple equation that demonstrates our slide over the last few years and all I have to say is..... Invincibles vs Hope for Fourth!

Because that my friends is what we need to hope for! Please do not be bluffed with "more experienced" and that with another 10 Prem games under his belt Justin Hoyte can be a force in helping us to the title! Dont ever be sucked in to believe that Flamini is the ideal foil for Cesc! Oh and again that Eboue is the new Armstrong/Limpar/Overmars.....he aint!

I don't wish to bring a pissing down wet rain cloud over the forum or the season guys and girls but when you look at facts and not fancy the evidence suggets we as a club are on the slide!

Like it or not that's the truth!

[DB10GOONER]

But then again, I am by nature one of lifes pessimists. You see, experience has taught me that if I think that way, I save myself from any unexpected surprises if things don't work out how I would want them to. Sad I know, but it is a thought process that has helped me handle the bad times, and enables me to still enjoy the good times when things do pan out.

I think that is the crux of this whole debate. I have nothing against "new" Arsenal fans (or "supporters") IF they are genuine and love the club (and don't leave early just to get a free beer ). We were all "new" fans once.

But I think there are two types of Gooner nowdays;

1. Those that have been fans since the 50's 60's 70's or 80's that remember what it was like back before AW when winning the league happened maybe once every decade (or once every bloody 18 years!! ) and a good season meant a cup run, beating the spuds at least once and maybe top 6 in the league . I remember those years and how I survived as a Gooner by enjoying the small things like beating the Mousers or the spuds or a cup run (maybe even WINNING a cup!! ).

That's why 1989 is so important to us that were Gooners then; it had taken two decades to achieve that title and it made us really believe again that we were a big club, and always had been .

2. Then there is the newer fan that has only really known the success of the Wenger era. They have no real concept of what those barren years were like. This is NOT a criticism of them by any means, it is just a fluke of birth that they are Gooners now and weren't back then. So you new guys have to understand when some of us older hands get the old heeby jeebies about the team. I know I personally have been waiting in fear for the bubble to burst since the double in 1998!! I can't help it, it's hard to shake off all those dissapointing seasons.

I personally like to read positive posts because it cheers me up when I start to feel negative about the club, so keep them coming lads (and ladies) but let's not lower ourselves to personal insults, huh? That's for the manure and spud forums, NOT the mighty GOONER FORUM - a forum that we, the posters, have helped make great as I'm sure Gooner Ed would agree.

We all have an opinion and one of the things that I love about this forum is that everyone respects everyone's opinion even if they disagree with it. It's great that ECD, Magic Hat, Gus and AA1886 can disagree and then realise that maybe they went too far on a personal level and apologise to each other! That's what is so cool about this forum.

We are all Gooners and we must respect each other.

Sorry for the sermon; some times I get typing diarrhoea ...

[Magic Hat]

Oddly enough I am a pessimist about life and England but Arsenal is the only thing where I believe more then I perhaps should. I have to admit, I have been lucky that 3 finals in three years and 2 4th place finishes is considered barren during my time as an Arsenal supporter, I didn't have to suffer GG's decline.

For me, if I could snap my fingers and add things, it would be another left winger, another holding midfielder to cover for when Gilberto is missing, learning how to handle press and the players not airing their grievances in public, the take over people to go away and a Director of Football to be hired, I'm sure the covering board member is doing a good job but really wished we had got one in sooner.

Will we get 4th place at the very least? Yes but that is more due to other teams around us, same with why I think we could get second then our squad. Man U have a good payer in Nani, not convinced by Anderson but they lack a natural striker and if they get a defensive injury crises, they are going to pay. Liverpool, great defence and they will have proper left backs soon but not too sure that they have added enough quality to their attacking options or a 20+ a season scorer. Chelsea need a right back but if they failed to implode last season then I think they win it this season. Below us, Spurs are sabotaging themselves, Everton and Blackburn are not good enough and lack the money, Newcastle's boardroom situation isnt stable while like Man City, the manager needs a few seasons before we start to panic.

I prefer to think of us on a curve then went downwards but is now set to get upwards.

[Hagbard 23]

Some great points been made on this thread by GUS ECD and DB10.
Very well put indeed.

I havn't really got any thing new to add to them, but to reiterate the
points made.

I remember only too well the days of crap football and Boring Boring
Arsenal chants thrown at us by every teams supporters, home and away.
Believe me , that hurt, and I don't want to hear that shit ever again.

I believe that if you truly love your team then you have a given right to scream and shout your grievances at 'em.

There's a thin line between love and hate. Or so they say!

As has already been stated, forums such as this, is one of our only outlets
to vent our concerns. Cos believe me the board of directors aint listening
to any of us.

And to tell the truth I don't give a toss what the board has to say either.
I couldn't give a monkeys what goes on in Hill-Woods conference rooms.
As long as our boys are making serious title challenges, and winning
silverware quite regularly, then I'm a happy consumer...

But thats not happening anymore is it?

Dress it up how you like, this club is starting on the downward spiral.
Anyone can see that surely. Even the most blinkered 18 year old fan-boy.

OK its not panic stations just yet. But it will be sooner or later if were not
careful.

Sorry to be so gloomy. But I'm starting to get really concerned.

[REB]

those of us old enough on this forum 2 remember the bad days are now the ones who now are startin 2 question the way the club is heading and rightly so , we do not want OUR club goin the way it went after the 71 double till 87 wit cup runs in between,, i love asene and hope he never leaves for wat he done for us as supporters,, but his lack of transfers is startin 2 get 2 me,, everybody knew we were short and in wat areas,, but nowt ,, we got 30mill in the summer and none spent,, WHY,, arsenal are broke and if not then com on arsene ,, before we get left behind and passed out ,, arsene knows ps hagard,, lov the chef,, hws your choc salty balls

[Hagbard 23]

: ps hagard,, lov the chef,, hws your choc salty balls

Its 43 degrees here at the moment so my chocolate salty balls are a bit sticky.
Thanks for asking tho'.

[donaldo]

Magic Hat

There is a difference between being an optomistic and being realistic.A lot of Gooners think the manager and the club have settled for 4th place. Two seasons ago should have been a warning shot.We JUST finished 4th.Instead of improving the squad it has got weaker. We have lost Campbell,Bergkamp.Lauren,Pires and Henry since then. Last season we finish 21pts behind Manure and 15pts behind Chelski.

Wenger has been our greatest ever manager and we will be eternally grateful to him for all the success he has brought us.But facts are facts two 4th place finishes are not good enough.
By refusing to buy a winger and moving a full back to play there,by loaning out one of our centre halves when we were already short,by not buying another striker when we desperatley need one is bad management.No one can deny that.We all love Arsenal but we can see with our own eyes that the squad is too thin.Flamini for all his effort would not get in the starting line up of our rivals and how a player as limited as Song makes it on the bench beggars belief.

[DB10GOONER]

Flamini for all his effort would not get in the starting line up of our rivals and how a player as limited as Song makes it on the bench beggars belief.

A very very good point there donaldo. Flamini is a trier but he is NOT good enough to play central midfield and never will be unfortunately. And Song is really very average at best.

It's hard to believe that AW doesn't see that the squad needs strengthening with real quality - he must see it.

So - is there a problem with transfer funds?? Are we broke??

Or is there really no one available at the right (or even a reasonable) price or that has the right attitude or whatever he judges them by??

It's baffling. We all know what we need so he must know it too. The board say there is money there but we don't buy any "big" players.

It worries me too...

[All_Arsenal_1886]

DB10GOONER I know i only started supporting Arsenal in 1997 and i count myself extremely lucky to have supported Arsenal through what is know as our "Glory Years" i know i wasn't there through the hard times of the 70's and 80's and totally understand what you mean saying about 'New Supporters' these last two years have been a big unknown experiance for me.

I've been called a glory hunter a few times which really winds me up mostly because it's southen Manure supports who think they aint glory hunters

I have a valid reason for supporting the Arsenal and i'm proud of it i'm enjoying this forum loads because i get to talk to fans who have supported Arsenal far longer than me and know what its like when the club is it a bad way.

I'm not sure why i started this post but would like to say we all support the same team and want whats best for them i really don't know what im going on about now

i'm going before i blab on about anything else

[stearmaster]

Flamini for all his effort would not get in the starting line up of our rivals and how a player as limited as Song makes it on the bench beggars belief.

A very very good point there donaldo. Flamini is a trier but he is NOT good enough to play central midfield and never will be unfortunately. And Song is really very average at best.

It's hard to believe that AW doesn't see that the squad needs strengthening with real quality - he must see it.

So - is there a problem with transfer funds?? Are we broke??

Or is there really no one available at the right (or even a reasonable) price or that has the right attitude or whatever he judges them by??

It's baffling. We all know what we need so he must know it too. The board say there is money there but we don't buy any "big" players.

It worries me too...

i think flamani seems too have a lot of passion for the club, and he likes a bit of argy bargie....so he is gd player in my eyes

[Magic Hat]

Again, of that list of players we lost, most are past their peak and left due to mental issues/retirment/being 3rd choice/not liking 1 year contract policy and wanting to play for Barca. Only Pires and arguably Henry (the great player but does he limit the team argument) are ones I think we miss, Pires for his goals more then anything. Yes we have finished 4th twice, a horrendous league campaign where we got used to life without Veria but got to a cup final and then missing out on third due to goal difference and getting to a cup final while playing brilliantly.

We have three right wingers if Arsene honestly believes Eboue can serve on the right (debatable and I'm not so confident about it), but just one left winger but we can put Clichy/Waclott/Dudu or Hleb there, I would like another winger though. I'm behind our CB situation and strikers as I think the first will pay off long term for some minor short term annoyance with shuffling if things go horrible and I like our strikers. Flamini is like Sidwell, only gets in due to injury crises, works hard, makes a nuisance, scores goals. Song, not even I can explain away.

Are we doomed to decline? We will get 4th this season at the very least but we walk a think line, get it right and we could blossom to be major contenders for years, get it wrong and we are will slide down.