People who want wenger out ...

Charlie! Charlie! · Post by **Charlie! Charlie!** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:15 pm

Rob wrote:
augie wrote:I should also say that I do believe that wenger should leave this summer cos unlike most others I do not see him changing his ideals and fcuk all will change. If he is willing to do the necessary then I will back him again but I honestly do not believe either he or the board want a shake up in the way the club is being run. It makes me laugh when I see fans say that he should get one more season to rectify things but if he doesnt do the necessary this summer then their support for him will go......does that mean he should be sacked on sept 1st or do they still want to give him the season ?

Catch 22 there isn't it. He can't proclaim what he's going to do transfer wise. We have to hope he finally gets it. By September 1st we will know.

The point is he still has one more year to run on his contract and he won't break that and the Club won't sack him. So he is here for one more year regardless. I still live in hope that he will act this summer.

But we will see.

I also think he will see out his contract - but would it be silly for the club to let him spend big (if only) if they were pretty sure a replacement would come in and want to have a big clear out and start again?

the playing mantis · Post by **the playing mantis** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:58 pm

ok ok so maybe we dont have a pot to piss in and the projects been forced on us this long.
please then explain why crap and finished players (ie denilson and eduardo) are given improved extended contracts if money is so tight (especillay when the likes of eduardo have no resale value). and why our wage bill is on par with united and chelski (and has been for a few years) when we have none of there success in recent years???

VforVictory · Post by **VforVictory** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:15 pm

the playing mantis wrote:
please then explain why crap and finished players (ie denilson and eduardo) are given improved extended contracts if money is so tight (especillay when the likes of eduardo have no resale value). and why our wage bill is on par with united and chelski (and has been for a few years) when we have none of there success in recent years???

After the circumstances around Flamini and Hleb leaving, the club attempts to tie up players on long term contracts to avoid possible Webster and Bosman clauses.

Our wage bill is believed to be high, because we attract the best younger prospects by paying them more than elsewhere.

Kiwi Gooner · Post by **Kiwi Gooner** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:29 pm

Look, the past few years have been frustrating and it has been truly gruesome to watch the Invincibles squad erode away, but... anyone who wants Arsene Wenger out is completely mad!

The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

I'm as pissed off as anyone over the way we have choked over the past two seasons. Especially when (in my opinion) a couple of prudent signings could have won us the title in '08 and this season.
But, if trophies were everything then I'd support Rangers.

I still believe in Arsene and his (our!) project.
And I beg to differ with anyone who thinks they're cleverer and more aware of what is happening behind the scenes at Arsenal than he is.

I can envisage us being in the strongest position of any English club in the next few years.
These lean years will seem like nothing when the silver is flowing again.

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:11 am

Trophies are not everything but believe it or not being unable to see that players like almunia, fabinski and diaby (to name just a few) are not good enough is extremely important - failure to see what is right in front of your eyes and then acting on it would be sackable in most other clubs

Secondly, people like Dennis Bergkamp, Bob Pires and Patrick Vieira (to name just a few) all contributed massively to our successes over the last 20 years but everyone of them had a shelflife - if wenger was ruthless enough to dispose of them when they had past their peak then why should the same principles not apply here ? George Graham acheived huge success in his time as Arsenal manager but it didnt prevent him getting the sack when he showed that he had lost his way

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:35 pm

It's amazing that some people just can't grasp the fact that just because Wenger had an amazing first 8 years here, does not mean that current or future mistakes can forever be forgiven on the strength of those first 8 years???? It's madness!!

skipper · Post by **skipper** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:48 pm

Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?

Champagne Charlie · Post by **Champagne Charlie** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:57 pm

skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?

Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

VforVictory · Post by **VforVictory** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:14 pm

Champagne Charlie wrote:
skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?
Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

But as Augie said, it is not just about trophies won.

Wenger won us two doubles.

He also got us an Invincibles season.

He also took us to Champs League final.

Off the field, there is the new stadium and the training ground.

Wenger was a big part in both.

There is also the fact, absolutely the fact, that Wenger has brought in teams that has played the most entertaining football that the club has played since the 1930's.

Then there is the massive wealth at Chelsea and Man City. Unprecedented differential in history of the domestic game.

Then there is the financial limit on Wenger because of the stadium debt.

The years post 2006 have a financial constraint that the years before it did not.

All pro Wenger points.

There are anti Wenger points too...the failure to organise the defence, the failure to bring in more short term loans/signings to plug obvious squad gaps caused by injury, the failure to compete physically since 2006.

Wenger is up against it like never before, and the deficiencies are obvious to all.

If he fails to act on them between now and next season then I think it is time for a new boss, but I believe he deserves one more year.

the playing mantis · Post by **the playing mantis** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:24 pm

hleb left for a decent fee. and both he and flamini were valued players. eduardo clearly is finished at this level, that is the most annoying contract renewal as youc ould argue with the others that these players may get miracuolosly good. (like flamini did)

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:36 pm

Champagne Charlie wrote:
skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?
Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

And correct me if I am wrong but his record still doesnt match up to that of George Graham's who also won trophies by spending fcuk all money

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:40 pm

augie wrote:
Champagne Charlie wrote:
skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?
Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

And correct me if I am wrong but his record still doesnt match up to that of George Graham's who also won trophies by spending fcuk all money

From memory I'm counting 5 trophies. Most of which were cups.

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:44 pm

Boomer wrote:
augie wrote:
Champagne Charlie wrote:
skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?
Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

And correct me if I am wrong but his record still doesnt match up to that of George Graham's who also won trophies by spending fcuk all money
From memory I'm counting 5 trophies. Most of which were cups.

augie · Post by **augie** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Boomer wrote:
augie wrote:
Champagne Charlie wrote:
skipper wrote:
Kiwi Gooner wrote:
The man has revolutionised our club and brought silverware and success that no old Gooner could possibly have dreamed of.

7 trophies in 13 full seasons isn't that much, is it?
Equates to about 1 every other season... *hides under table*
But maybe we were spoilt over the first 7 years of his reign.

And correct me if I am wrong but his record still doesnt match up to that of George Graham's who also won trophies by spending fcuk all money
From memory I'm counting 5 trophies. Most of which were cups.

In a shorter reign though

VforVictory · Post by **VforVictory** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:03 pm

Graham 1986 - 1995

1 Cup Winners Cup,
2 Leagues,
1 FA Cup,
2 League Cups

(Included one domestic Cup double).

Finished as low as 12th one season.

1 League Cup Runner Up

Wenger 1996 - 2010+

3 Leagues,
4 FA Cups

(Included 2 Doubles, 1 League Season Unbeaten)

1 Champions League Runners Up
1 UEFA Cup Runners UP
1 FA Cup Runners Up
1 League Cup Runners Up

Never finished below 4th in League.

No longer entered full strength teams in domestic Cups from 2006 onwards.

Spent more money, but amount of money in the game as a whole increased.