Today feels like the beginning of the end.

[Arsenal 1991]

I have - of course many like yourself aren't even willing to to take part in a petition effort that requires you simply sign your actual name.

So if my doing that shows my passion then does your refusing to sign or ridiculing my effort correspond to a lack of passion on your part then? Or if you are as passionate as I am about Arsenal as surely you are why not actually sign it?

Perhaps because I don't agree with you.

Even if you don't agree with me since you have acknowledged that you have no idea for certain what the truth is you should sign you because you should want to know what it is, no?

Besides even if you don't sign where do you get off acting as if I haven't tried to do something? I have made more of an effort than you have to try to learn the truth. If you are right as you maybe why not encourage the Board to actually prove that?

Seems to me that everyone who wants to believe the Board now doesn't want to know their belief is indeed actually justified. Cue the Zombies "I Don't Want To Know" on the record player.

I would want to know if I was right - or wrong. I don't understand the reluctance of those who trust the Board to prove they are right in doing so really.

I really can't be bothered to read your posts, just do what you want to do.

In other words you can't answer it with confidence - but if that makes you feel better about that reality....

Yes Im lying to myself.

[USMartin]

Perhaps because I don't agree with you.

Even if you don't agree with me since you have acknowledged that you have no idea for certain what the truth is you should sign you because you should want to know what it is, no?

Besides even if you don't sign where do you get off acting as if I haven't tried to do something? I have made more of an effort than you have to try to learn the truth. If you are right as you maybe why not encourage the Board to actually prove that?

Seems to me that everyone who wants to believe the Board now doesn't want to know their belief is indeed actually justified. Cue the Zombies "I Don't Want To Know" on the record player.

I would want to know if I was right - or wrong. I don't understand the reluctance of those who trust the Board to prove they are right in doing so really.

I really can't be bothered to read your posts, just do what you want to do.

In other words you can't answer it with confidence - but if that makes you feel better about that reality....

Yes Im lying to myself.

If you believe that maybe it's true. All I am saying you don't seem to have the confidence in what you believe that you would or should want to. If you did maybe you'd be more eager top have that confidence justified.

If I was confident that I could prove I was right I wouldn't hesitate for one moment to do so yet all those who insist the Board is right are remarkably reluctant to have their beliefs affirmed by actual information and facts.

[mcdowell42]

I love the board i think its only right that they should make loads of dosh they have a very demanding job.Arsene doesnt need the money for the team we are doing very well on the pitch. Long live the board

[Arsenal 1991]

So you think Arsene is a liar, Martin?

[USMartin]

So you think Arsene is a liar, Martin?

I do think he is complicit in this interms of mis-leading supporters. Yes I am afraid I do believe that. That he is - in my opinion - guilty of. He works for Arsenal, and not its supporters, so its hardly a surprise. If he did anything else he would likely get the sack. I think the reason he hasn't been sacked is because he might not feel as obligated to protect whatever the Club and Board are doing.

The question is if not for the Board refusing to offer him the same financial support and continuing to pay him amazingly well for moving the team backwards but increasing the club's profits, would he be in a position where he had to do that?

[Arsenal 1991]

So you think Arsene is a liar, Martin?

I do think he is complicit in this interms of mis-leading supporters. Yes I am afraid I do believe that. That he is - in my opinion - guilty of.

The question is if not for the Board refusing to offer him the same support and continuing to pay him amazingly well for moving the team backwards, would he be in a posirtion where he had to do that?

I don't know why I keep replying, I really can't read your posts. You need a lesson in grammar and concise writing.

[QuartzGooner]

@USMartin

If you can find out more information about the board, Wenger and why he spends how much he does on certain players, in an "above board" fashion, then good luck to you.

Perhaps you could write an article for the printed fanzine about this, or for a newspaper etc?

[mcdowell42]

@USMartin

If you can find out more information about the board, Wenger and why he spends how much he does on certain players, in an "above board" fashion, then good luck to you.

Perhaps you could write an article for the printed fanzine about this, or for a newspaper etc?

Yeah i think he should go away and do some research and maybe get back to us in about 15 years

[USMartin]

I think you read them fine though I won't debate the precision of my grammar. I think you can read them fine otherwise they couldn't upset you as much as they do.

So again why don't you want to know you in fact are right for sure? Are you that concerned you might in fact be wrong?

[USMartin]

@USMartin

If you can find out more information about the board, Wenger and why he spends how much he does on certain players, in an "above board" fashion, then good luck to you.

Perhaps you could write an article for the printed fanzine about this, or for a newspaper etc?

What do you mean above board? I'm curious about this.

And again why are you so reluctant to seek this information at this point? After all you might be proven right if they were to share it with us? Why are you afraid for lack of a btter word to be proven correct?

Actually I may offer a piece for publication in the not-too-distant future. And no I don't mean 15 years - sorry McDowell -

[QuartzGooner]

@USMartin

I simply do not see cause for major alarm at the club as relates to the board.

I want three better players right now, but I think the club is going in the right direction long term as regards finances and infrastructure.

I am very concerned about defensive coaching, but that is to do with Wenger, not the board.

If you can find anything out about the board deliberately scuppering Wenger, then please post it for all to read!

[USMartin]

@USMartin

I simply do not see cause for major alarm at the club as relates to the board.

I want three better players right now, but I think the club is going in the right direction long term as regards finances and infrastructure.

I am very concerned about defensive coaching, but that is to do with Wenger, not the board.

If you can find anything out about the board deliberately scuppering Wenger, then please post it for all to read!

Quartz the problem there is people like you quite simply are content to do nothing until its too late. Frankly then you need not be more concerned than you are now. Your outrage will be frankly pointless and even can be said to be insincere as it will achieve absolutely nothing then.

There is already plenty of evidence including a certain Quartzgooner's own explanation that "we simply have to accept" these spending policies will continue no matter who is managing the club until the debt is paid off. You have in fact said this and said it more than once. By saying that you in fact are confirming that what I am saying is going you believe in fact is going on. The only difference is you ascribe different motives to it than I do at this time.

So you believe in fact what I believe - that it is club policy rather than the manager limiting our spending. So you should be as concerned now as I amm even if you do not share my beliefs about why that spending is being limited at this time, and you should be as eager to learn the facts behind why that is happening now as I am.

Now I can make a very strong circumstantial case with relatively little information from the club that this is happening as well. So if we both believe its happening even if we disagree as to why shouldn't we then both want to know what is actually happening and why with the same urgency?

[highburyJD]

I think the issue is bigger than Arsenal
IMO football clubs are an exception to normal accounting rules
the fans/customers/stakeholders are more important than the shareholders

I would legislate total transparency

[USMartin]

I think the issue is bigger than Arsenal
IMO football clubs are an exception to normal accounting rules
the fans/customers/stakeholders are more important than the shareholders

I would legislate total transparency

That is an interesting point of view. I am not sure I entirely agree if you are arguing for unlimited spending no matter the potential consequences. It does however also seems in line with the traditional view thast football clubs are not purely business entities as Simon Kuper asserts in Soccernomics, though, which I endorse fully.

That is the heart of the question we are facing - is Arsenal a football Club representing Highbury and Islington and the supporters who love the club or a business representing its sharehiolders?

[northbankbren]

Its amazing, 2nd in the league. And in all comps. A final at wembley, yet some still believe the manager should go.

Only ONE manager in this country is doing better...

Oh and how much did we spend in the summer? or the one before? or the one before?

And yet those around us spend loads, but we're still 2nd?????

How did that happen?????

.....ah fuck it im still not happy......things were way better when we were in a midtable scrap....at least the players cared.