One other thing US Martin. I would be willing to bet that if a different manager, say Mourinho for example, replaced Wenger as manager in the summer, he would win us a trophy next season without making a single additional signing and consequently no additonal expenditure. Have you ever seen one of Mourinho's centre backs make a mistake like Koscielny in the Carling Cup Final? No because he organises his team expecially defensively so that they are greater than the sum of their parts. Wenger does the complete opposite.kgw129 wrote:I will challenge you US Martin. I simply do not accept the premise of your arguement regarding the board. You may or may not be right about the board restricting the amount of money that Wenger has to spend. However the premise of your arguement is based upon the fact that you presume Wenger would be successfull if he had more money to spend which is what I do not accept. In my opinion Wenger is not successful due to his shortcomings as a manager not due to how much he does or does not spend. Our performance this season proves this. In my opinion with the players we have and the current level of expenditure we should have won both the Carling Cup and the League this season but the fact that we will not is solely down to Wenger and his shortcomings as a manager. Is it down to lack of expenditure that we cannot beat a journeyman Birmingham City side in a Cup Final or that Wenger does not tell his centre back to "if in doubt kick it out" in the last minute of a Cup Final? Is it down to lack of expenditure that we have gone 3 League games without a win to poor sides such as Sunderland, West Brom and Blackburn when virtually in pole position to win the League? I could go on but I am sure that you get the picture.USMartin wrote:Pot kettle and black TeeCee as this applies to you.TeeCee wrote:The reason Wenger got so upset is because he knows that what he is hearing is the truth and he hates to hear it at all. No-one inside the club is allowed to question or criticise so when someone else does, he loses it totally! This man is so out of his depth but until he takes his head out of his arse he will continue doing what he's done for years.....he can't see it!!
notice how you have avoided me since being challanged to provide just one piece of independent and varifiable evidence supporting your beliefs that its all down to the manager on his iown refusing to spend money and ignoring the Board' s efforts to make him spend more.
You are the one who hates hearing the truth which is you have no evudence whatsoever supporting your convictiones and and can''t find one in six years and don't have it in you to admit that little. Because if you did you might have to admit you might be wrong and you might have to consider that other people at the club bear some most or even nearly all the repsonsibility for these policies which you don't want to believe is possible let alone true.
No you are the one you are writing about here because you don't have the balls to try and find proof for what you believe because you know its not there and you definitely don't have the balls to acknowledge that reality, let alone the possibility that implies.
Mr Wenger at todays press conference
Fair enough I welcome an honestly posed challenge, KGW
I think the problem here to those who suppose this is solely down to the manager's failings and that these failing didn't just appear after 2006 - they were there as far back as 1997 for all to see. The reason they didn't matter so much is because the quality of the team was vastly superior throughout that period. The subsitutions were every bit as predictable - even more so than now in certain seasons, the lack of tactical variety and flexibility was every bit as visible and obvious, the lack of a plan B every bit as costly, the poor set-piece play(albeit at the offensive end then) was clear to any Gooner.
Again the difference between Arsene Wenger then and now was the talent he first inherited then built on and ultimately re-bulit himself between 1998-2005 was vastlty superior in terms of proven talent and experience, and this was because of greater ambition showen by the Club the Manager and the Board, both in terms of transfer spending and in terms of the wage structure.
From 1998-2005 with the more ambitious spending we won the Premier League Three Times and never finished below second, won the FA Cup four times , and we reached the Final five times and the Semi-Final seven times. Oh and we won the Double twice
HOWEVER,
From since 2006 - now with less ambitious transfer spending and a flatter less intelligent wage structure. we have not won the Premier League at all, and have yet to finish better than third and have not won the FA Cup and only reached one Semi-Final.[/b]
So there is a clear connection here supported by history between the level of spending and the level of achievement of Arsene Wenger's teams at Arsenal. Does that mean it is the only problem or even the main problem? Not necessarily. But that alone is more evidence really than anyone here has offered really to his point that it may be a critcial factor to consider from here.
I think the problem here to those who suppose this is solely down to the manager's failings and that these failing didn't just appear after 2006 - they were there as far back as 1997 for all to see. The reason they didn't matter so much is because the quality of the team was vastly superior throughout that period. The subsitutions were every bit as predictable - even more so than now in certain seasons, the lack of tactical variety and flexibility was every bit as visible and obvious, the lack of a plan B every bit as costly, the poor set-piece play(albeit at the offensive end then) was clear to any Gooner.
Again the difference between Arsene Wenger then and now was the talent he first inherited then built on and ultimately re-bulit himself between 1998-2005 was vastlty superior in terms of proven talent and experience, and this was because of greater ambition showen by the Club the Manager and the Board, both in terms of transfer spending and in terms of the wage structure.
From 1998-2005 with the more ambitious spending we won the Premier League Three Times and never finished below second, won the FA Cup four times , and we reached the Final five times and the Semi-Final seven times. Oh and we won the Double twice
HOWEVER,
From since 2006 - now with less ambitious transfer spending and a flatter less intelligent wage structure. we have not won the Premier League at all, and have yet to finish better than third and have not won the FA Cup and only reached one Semi-Final.[/b]
So there is a clear connection here supported by history between the level of spending and the level of achievement of Arsene Wenger's teams at Arsenal. Does that mean it is the only problem or even the main problem? Not necessarily. But that alone is more evidence really than anyone here has offered really to his point that it may be a critcial factor to consider from here.
'I'm against superficial judgment, that's what I fight against' - you patronising, stubborn old *word censored* you
'Do you judge this season or the last four seasons?' - six actually and fucking right I do, we're going backwards
'Would you swap winning the FA Cup for playing in the Champions League?' - every day of the week because I'm fed up of being someone's bitch when the latter gets serious
'But what I deny is that everything is suddenly negative' - nothing sudden about it pal
'We've built this club' - you arrogant, deluded *word censored* you
This is our club he is embarrassing on an almost daily basis now.
He HAS to fuck off, just has to.
'Do you judge this season or the last four seasons?' - six actually and fucking right I do, we're going backwards
'Would you swap winning the FA Cup for playing in the Champions League?' - every day of the week because I'm fed up of being someone's bitch when the latter gets serious
'But what I deny is that everything is suddenly negative' - nothing sudden about it pal
'We've built this club' - you arrogant, deluded *word censored* you
This is our club he is embarrassing on an almost daily basis now.
He HAS to fuck off, just has to.
Selsdon do you believe that the Board will suddenly just start spending more as soonas he is out?
Do you seriously believe they will radically change the wage structure the moment Mr. Wenger is out?
Do you seriously believe they are not aware of everything we are but have just ignored it or a repowerless to say or do anything atb all about it?
And if you don't believe that than what do you expect to change under a new manager?
And if you don't why not show as much hostility and invective toward Mr. Wenger's employes as Mr. Wenger as they clearly are doing nothing to fix any of the problems?
Do you seriously believe they will radically change the wage structure the moment Mr. Wenger is out?
Do you seriously believe they are not aware of everything we are but have just ignored it or a repowerless to say or do anything atb all about it?
And if you don't believe that than what do you expect to change under a new manager?
And if you don't why not show as much hostility and invective toward Mr. Wenger's employes as Mr. Wenger as they clearly are doing nothing to fix any of the problems?
BTW there is this fact Selsdon
From 1998-2005 with the more ambitious spending we won the Premier League Three Times and never finished below second, won the FA Cup four times , and we reached the Final five times and the Semi-Final seven times. Oh and we won the Double twice
HOWEVER,
From 2006--now with less ambitious transfer spending and a flatter less intelligent wage structure. we have not won the Premier League at all, and have yet to finish better than third and have not won the FA Cup and only reached one Semi-Final.[/b]
From 1998-2005 with the more ambitious spending we won the Premier League Three Times and never finished below second, won the FA Cup four times , and we reached the Final five times and the Semi-Final seven times. Oh and we won the Double twice
HOWEVER,
From 2006--now with less ambitious transfer spending and a flatter less intelligent wage structure. we have not won the Premier League at all, and have yet to finish better than third and have not won the FA Cup and only reached one Semi-Final.[/b]
Don't know mate but don't care either, he has to go regardless.USMartin wrote: Selsdon do you believe that the Board will suddenly just start spending more as soon as he is out?
The board allow him at least £125 million pa, which he chooses to spend on wages. I'm happy taking my chances another manager could take that cash, spend wisely in both transgers/wages and we'll see a dramatic change in attitude aroudn the club, which is what ultimately us realists want.
Flog Diaby, Denilson, Almunia, Squillaci, Bender, Theo, Eboue, Rosicky
get 70 mill for that lot, save around 20 mill a year wages, frees up 90 mill
even Barry Fry could get seven or eight better players than that lot for half the money and wages
these things are nothing to do with the board, unless of course you believe they tell Wenger who to buy and what wages to give em
get 70 mill for that lot, save around 20 mill a year wages, frees up 90 mill
even Barry Fry could get seven or eight better players than that lot for half the money and wages
these things are nothing to do with the board, unless of course you believe they tell Wenger who to buy and what wages to give em
I hate the way Arsene is ruining his legacy and hate the stick he is getting at the moment, but it is comments like the ones he has been making over the past few years which just make him undefendable. You cannot keep using the youth argument, it's not as if this is one team thats been building up. Admittedly some players leaving were not his fault, but this team is worse than the one that contained the likes of Flamini and Hleb. That team would already have two trophy's wrapped up and that was only a couple of years ago. The league has been there for the taking this season and there just seems to be a lack of desire and quality in the squad. Almunia, Bendtner, Rosicky, Squillaci, Diaby and Denilson all need to go. Every time he has a post match inteview I cringe when he says that the team has 'mental strength' and desire and whatever other crap he comes out with, blaming fixture lists or some other shite for the teams shortcomings. We need players who have the experience and drive in the squad. Someone like Scott Parker. I would be willing to keep Wenger on, as the man who first came to the club is still there somewhere, he has to change though and if its the board controlling his spending things have to change there as well.
That's just thre thing you don't sound very realistic at all. Wehere do you get this 125 million - our wage bill every year is 120 million, and thatis supposed to comefrom our profits not from the transfer budget. I have heard we are the only top club to use our transfer budget for wages and even to make it necessary to do that, but how do you get that annual figure?selsdon wrote:Don't know mate but don't care either, he has to go regardless.USMartin wrote: Selsdon do you believe that the Board will suddenly just start spending more as soon as he is out?
The board allow him at least £125 million pa, which he chooses to spend on wages. I'm happy taking my chances another manager could take that cash, spend wisely in both transgers/wages and we'll see a dramatic change in attitude aroudn the club, which is what ultimately us realists want.
And supporters who don't care what happens after will be every buit as much to blame for it id=f it doesn't go as you want to believe. Ny guess is don't agree.
We need resposnible intelligent change at Arsenal, not just change that will make you feel a little better for awhile.
Supporters like you harm this club more than help it. You don't care if it turns out the Board sold our ambiotion for a higher share price you just want someone who you think you can make pay to pay. You don't give a fuck about Arsenal really if you don't care wwhetyher the other money is actually made available to spend. Wait I do not to put words in your mouth - you just don't care.
Supporters like you are why we haven't won anything since 2006 because you didn't care then either whether they were telling the truth either.
-
OneBardGooner
- Posts: 48122
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Close To The Edge
I just hope everyone else does as well mate, but with some of the retards at the games these days they'll blindly sit there in their usual stone faced fashion - chomping away on the £8 fish & chips and taking piccies with their cell phones should we score etc...instead of showing some passion, getting off their arris's and givining him and the rest some right royal abuse!DUFFMAN wrote:That is exactly my problem obg
He's beyond the point of understanding what we think/want
I hate to give the man that brought us so much joy the stick he's about to get but if that's the only way to show him how we really feel than so be it.
Fuck congratulating man u, fuck 2nd is ok
WE ARE THE ARSENAL. 2nd IS NOWHERE.
He genuinely thinks we should be happy where we are. Bollocks am I happy and I'm gonna make it known Sunday week, just as we had to make it known to eboue
You're losing the plot arsene
btw: while you're messing with denilshytes brakes could you do the same for bendy,eboue,squilacci and sicknote..Ere! it wasn't you who messed with Cesc's brakes was it!!????
-
OneBardGooner
- Posts: 48122
- Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:41 am
- Location: Close To The Edge
selsdon wrote:Flog Diaby, Denilson, Almunia, Squillaci, Bender, Theo, Eboue, Rosickyget 70 mill for that lot, save around 20 mill a year wages, frees up 90 mill
Couldn't agree more Sels...It seems the world and his dog know this to be part of the way forward if we're EVER going to win anything under AW again....so why does he and others not see it!???.I mean come on it is Common Sense, mind you Common Sense isn't so common these days is it !
The whole interview
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Ar ... 21349.html
He doesnt understand fans complaining The man has to go
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Ar ... 21349.html
He doesnt understand fans complaining
The man has to go-
marcengels
- Posts: 7208
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 11:12 pm
- Location: North Bank
He wasn't even asked the right questions.donaldo wrote:The whole interview
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Ar ... 21349.html
He doesnt understand fans complaining
He is now contradicting himself.
Continue with your plaything Arsene, and give us our money back. Thanks.
Problem with this is you are assuming Jose Mourinho would take our job. The simple fact is he would not because he could get more financial backing and a greater chance to win trophies at ManU or Man City or even at Liverpool. Yes ne startted at Porto but since then has managed three of the richest most ambitious clubs in the world. Yes we're one of the richest but we lack sufficient ambition to get him to sign.kgw129 wrote:One other thing US Martin. I would be willing to bet that if a different manager, say Mourinho for example, replaced Wenger as manager in the summer, he would win us a trophy next season without making a single additional signing and consequently no additonal expenditure. Have you ever seen one of Mourinho's centre backs make a mistake like Koscielny in the Carling Cup Final? No because he organises his team expecially defensively so that they are greater than the sum of their parts. Wenger does the complete opposite.
Seconnd he his teams from day one at Chelsea were better from end-to-end really than Arsenal is now. Is he a better defensive coach? Certainly. Is he a better defensive organizer? Absolutely. But could he work the same magic with this team with the team he had at Chelsea or Inter or even now at Real wjhere they still have an excellent chance for silverware and maybe even two trophies?
This team has too many weaknesses and inadequate players for Mourinho to be able to make the difference with this team as it is. He can't even make Almunia or Squillaci or Denilson or Rosicky or Bendtner or Eboue good enough and on this team he will have to count on them far too often. Just like Mr. Wenger has.
