As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DB10GOONER wrote:One thing I will say for Ivan; I wrote to him a couple seasons ago whining about the shit home jerseys and demanding the white sleeves back. He responded with what obviously wasn't a template letter as he addressed each of my concerns individually and with quite informal language. Not saying he won't just reply with a template to this letter (especially if they receive hundreds or thousands) but I was impressed with the way he replied to mine.
DB10GOONER wrote:One thing I will say for Ivan; I wrote to him a couple seasons ago whining about the shit home jerseys and demanding the white sleeves back. He responded with what obviously wasn't a template letter as he addressed each of my concerns individually and with quite informal language. Not saying he won't just reply with a template to this letter (especially if they receive hundreds or thousands) but I was impressed with the way he replied to mine.
like you i iused to get personal replies from gazidis but i think if you wrote the same letter now, you would be blanked.
i am still waiting for anyone at the club to explain why the club refused to sell legia warsaw tickets or allow pre- booked tickets to be collected one week earlier on the weekend of the emirates cup we were talking about max 375 tickets but apparently too much work involved for box office staff.
two years ago gazidis would have sent personal reply or arranged for senior exec to reply - no longer is this so.
the club dont really care and have nothing to worry about when supporter groups act like pussycats, fearing club will cut off links and privileges, and declare they "welcome" gazidis proposed "review" of ticketing policy when everyone knows this is bullshit.
the only glimmer of hope is that in usa there appears to be greater concern about customer care but then again americans , having greater expectations, are more demanding.
its all doom and gloom on and off the field i'm afraid.
DB10GOONER wrote:One thing I will say for Ivan; I wrote to him a couple seasons ago whining about the shit home jerseys and demanding the white sleeves back. He responded with what obviously wasn't a template letter as he addressed each of my concerns individually and with quite informal language. Not saying he won't just reply with a template to this letter (especially if they receive hundreds or thousands) but I was impressed with the way he replied to mine.
Really?
You should have posted it on here for us all to read.
I am dismayed at the recent price rise for memberships too, I fail to see the justification for a 50% rise in the silver lite membership and 30% for the others, I feel the club is being extremely dishonest about the new “freeâ€
While the concerns about the ticket price and membership fee increases are fully justified, if you take exception to them and to the lack of investment in the team you cut our nose to spite our face because they will argue if you want more investment in the team you have to be willing to pay more to make it so, and if you don't want to pay more then you've no right to ask us to invest more given how much we are already investing.
I am not saying this is a right or fair response but it is surely the inevitable response we will get and are already seeing in Ivan Gazidis;'s defence of the increases on Pravda.com.
This is why we have to push into the darker corners and challenge the Club and the Board to defend the decision to re-develop Highbury, and their evasiveness about the project to supporters and challengejust who devised the new wage policy and why, and why Dacvid Dein was sacked for leading a takeover by Stan Kroenke and Stan Kroenke was punished by being given his seat on the Board and being sold up to 71% of the club, and why they felt it neccessary to sit on as much as over 100 million in cash reserves that could not be used to pay down to the debt at this time but could have been reinvested in the team, and whether the fact that the share price doubled as they did was more than mere coincidence or good luck.
Because as Keith Edelman's efforts to rewrite his Arsenal C.V. in recent weeks show . these people have reputations and egos and legacies and protecting them is as valuable to them as maxing out every peeny profit they could from their investments or inheritances, and only when we show we are willing to pursue this until they have to answer some really uncomfotable questions with even uglier answers possibly will they see that they have no choice but to act now to correct this.
The biggest problem here is too many Gooners were too predisposed for too long to accept whatever our Board said or to give them the benefit of the doubt and look how our faith and trust in them has been rewarded.
Sorry Martin I don't see the point. That is in the past and Im pretty sure Kroenke will start getting rid of them soon.
A simple response to Kroenke would be, GET YOUR FUCKING COMMERCIAL TEAM TO DO THEIR JOBS!!! They've earned millions for doing nothing and we seem to be paying for it with price and membership rises.
This extra revenue of £5.5m better be reinvested in the team!!!
That may be but the point is past is prologue and so long as we are unwilling to challenge how the club has been run we cannot effectivelly hope to challenge how it is being run now - we in effect are unitentionally encouraging more of the same to be frank about it.
Why would Stan Kroenke feel any pressure to change things if we were content to be lied to and mis-led by the previous Board.
What is it they say - if it ain't broke don't fix it - and Arsenal as a money-making venture for investors ain't broke. Surely that is how Stan Kroenke will see it until he has no other choice I fear.
Arsenal 1991 wrote:Don't worry Martin. That is what BSM and AST are campaigning for!!!!!
Actually it seems to me we're campaigning for what they are campaigning for more now.
I think we need to decide whether we are campaigning for improving the team by increasing investment - in which case we cannot argue for decreasing ticket prices if only because they can then say to us which one do you wewant because you cannot have both (even though between you and me, if they wanted to we absolutely could have both).
I think once we address the issue behind which we originally formed this group then there is no reason at all we cannot join the other groups in advocating more supporter-friendly pricing and policies.
Time is of the essence here - we need to decide what we are about and act from here. It's May already and we already behing the eight ball in terms of timing and opportunity. We need to use the anger we feel and the energy it is inspiring effectively and decisively and sooner rather than later.
Let's be honest here: there are about half a dozen Arsenal supporters groups and between them they've managed to achieve or are likely to achieve the square root of fuck all, beyond acknowledgment of their existence and the club agreeing to a couple of smallish ideas!!! Ultimately, they think they know ad will do what's best - for their interests, if not the supporters. That's the way it's always been and it's the way it will continue to be.
When are people going to get it through their heads that the people who own and run Arsenal Football Club don't give a fuck about us or our opinions? The only way to reasonably look at things now is to no longer make it the be all and end all of our lives and instead treat it like another form of the arts, which you only attend occasionally and when the mood strikes you. Anything else is almost akin to very expensive sadomasochism!!
I Hate Hleb wrote:Let's be honest here: there are about half a dozen Arsenal supporters groups and between them they've managed to achieve or are likely to achieve the square root of fuck all, beyond acknowledgment of their existence and the club agreeing to a couple of smallish ideas!!! Ultimately, they think they know ad will do what's best - for their interests, if not the supporters. That's the way it's always been and it's the way it will continue to be.
When are people going to get it through their heads that the people who own and run Arsenal Football Club don't give a fuck about us or our opinions? The only way to reasonably look at things now is to no longer make it the be all and end all of our lives and instead treat it like another form of the arts, which you only attend occasionally and when the mood strikes you. Anything else is almost akin to very expensive sadomasochism!!
I understand where you are coming fromI think you are wrong.
I think several of the established groups are simply not prepared to push the Club as hard as it must be while several other newer groups have not had the chance to do so.
I think the problem with the groups or group originating on here, is that we began too late really and as a result aren't ready to enter this debate and aren't sure how we want to do it.
But I do think a serious dediicated focused effort to do more than simply get a meeting with the Board or Ivan Gazidis and unwilling to simply accept whatever explanations they offer to justify their polices and actions can make a real difference. Whehter any of the established groups or the newer groupd have the will to do this is a valid question now, and whether the supporters have the will to devote their energy to these groups they devote to these forums is really the key.
I Hate Hleb wrote:Let's be honest here: there are about half a dozen Arsenal supporters groups and between them they've managed to achieve or are likely to achieve the square root of fuck all, beyond acknowledgment of their existence and the club agreeing to a couple of smallish ideas!!! Ultimately, they think they know ad will do what's best - for their interests, if not the supporters. That's the way it's always been and it's the way it will continue to be.
When are people going to get it through their heads that the people who own and run Arsenal Football Club don't give a fuck about us or our opinions? The only way to reasonably look at things now is to no longer make it the be all and end all of our lives and instead treat it like another form of the arts, which you only attend occasionally and when the mood strikes you. Anything else is almost akin to very expensive sadomasochism!!
So everyone should just give up?
I don't believe for one second that BSM are just going to accept that the club are going to change, they really want to make sure of it. The AST are always campaigning and talking to Gazidis. They will do a ticket price review next season, too late, but if they do then thats down to the BSM and mainly AST campaigning.
As I said, theres nothing worse than moaning relentlessly on the internet and then saying theres no point trying to change the club or worse belittling the groups that are trying to change what you are so unhappy about.
So what will the BSM do then, eh? What can they really do to have an effect of consequence on the club, apart from boycott games?
As for AST - all that cosying up and consultation worked out well didn't it? Review next season? Why am I not surprised? Always 'jam tomorrow' when it comes to Arsenal, eh?
And you're wrong: the one thing worse than 'moaning minnies on the internet' is fans groups with delusions of grandeur that talk a good game but aren't prepared to do the necessary and thus ultimately fail to deliver - again, ironically, just like the team!!!
Like I've said before, I don't doubt the groups' sincerity - just question whether they can actually achieve their goals by playing 'best buddies' with those in charge.
