As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Gunnersaurus wrote:Age is only a number, Ian Wright is a prime example.
For me he just is everything we don't have, someone that will head all day, fight and bully all day and kick it out of the ground as opposed to being too elegant and getting caught in possession.
I'm dreading a pairing of Vermaelen and Koscienly, you could not get two identical styles, we need someone that can handle a Kevin Davies, Andy Carroll or John Carew, its where we get found out.
We need defenders that enjoy defending.
I agree with a lot of what you say but you want to buy samba based solely on his ability to face up to a handful of similar type's of players he will face in the premier league - what will happen when he plays in the champs league and against the smaller nippy forwards he will face in the prem league ? Fcuk all mobility and fcuk all experience at the top level speels potential disaster to me cos at least if he had experience playing at the top level he could use that experience to position himself better and maybe mask his lack of mobility
But surely that's where you get tactical (mmmm, it is Wenger we're talking about though).....
In Europe, against teams with little aerial threat then you change your team to suit. In the PL, Samba should pretty much be first choice against most teams. The problem is, for so long now Wenger has not given himself the option of putting a big guy in there, even though our record in set pieces is appalling. We simply must dominate the air more.
Off the cuff, I can't remember the likes of Man U and Chelsea making Samba look an idiot, even with their 'european experience'?
TeeCee wrote:I think we just need to be realistic about how much Wenger will likely pay for a CB. I doubt very much he'll go more than about 10-12m. Therefore, our need for a CB who is particularly good in the air means Samba would probably be an excellent addition. He doesn't need to be good on the ball as our midfielders always drop deep to pick it up. I think Samba has many good attributes such as good aerially, very strong physically, good tackler, experienced as a captain, very experienced in the PL. Is he slower than John Terry? I wouldn't have thought there's much in it. CB's are very much about partnerships and Samba with TV would give us an excellent mix of skills that fits our budget. I still think he would be an excellent signing, especially as there aren't many available alternatives?
So yet again what we are saying is that wenger's economics and blindness has lowered our ambitions and quality ? The man is a *word censored* and should fcuk off now
That being said let me ask a question to those of you who believe samba would be a good signing........would you prefer signing samba for 12m or cahill for 12m ? Genuine question cos although neither would be on my list of centre backs to target I would probably pich cahill over samba if I am honest
Neither of them would be perfect... but both would be be a step in the right direction... by that i mean dealing with a weakness we have ... with players who are proven in the league we actually play in...and they are both realistic targets taking in to consideration who is in charge...
I think unfortunately Augie, Wenger is the biggest problem still! I think he will be willing to pay more for an attacking player but I can't see him spending £20m on Subotic for instance.
Cahill or Samba is a tough one as they are both an improvement on what we have but neither are the 'complete article'. Personally I would still go for Samba purely because I think we MUST show teams we are not a pushover in the air and make them think a bit differently. Arsenal have become so predictable in the last 3 years, all teams now know that 10 men in defence will quite possibly draw them the game and launching the ball into our box from set pieces could well win the game. Thats why for me, the most important signings this summer for us should be the dominant CB and one or even two natural wingers.
If we don't speed our game up and cut out the constant 20-30 pass moves going forwards, you can guarantee right now that we will not finish in the top two next season.
Gunnersaurus wrote:LeftfootlegendGooner wrote: Gunnersaurus wrote: Because they are shit but how many clubs did we fight off for Henry or Bergkamp?
It works both ways.
Buy we did have competition for those players, we just paid big money at the time, totally different.
But we had no competition so by your logic they are shit.
Your argument is flawed cos you refuse to believe opposing facts so can't be arsed, like arguing with a woman
How is it flawed? I'm just asking the question, if a player is not good enough because one of the top clubs are not trying to get in first then how do you explain those two?
I'm only seeing one flawed logic here.
If a player fits then he fits, I doubt Chelsea or us made a move for Hernandez, is he shit?
It is flawed for the following reasons -
Bergkamp was one of the most coveted young players in europe when he left what was then a top european side (ajax) to join another top european club (inter). After one poor season inter decided that he wasnt the man for them but we, through David Dein, stole a march on the rest of his admirers and his signing caused major shockwaves at that time. Henry too had been a top player for a big european club (monaco) when he left to join the turin giants juve but he too failed to inspire after one season and again we got in and nabbed him through wenger's history with him before any other club could react. Signing those two players who had 2 major european superclubs on each of their cv's is not the same as comparing the signing of samba cos his cv doesnt read as a who is who of world football but is more like a "who ?"
I would also like to add that somebody made a comment stating that no other big club needs a centre back hence the lack of competition for his signiture and I am sorry but that is absolutely dogshite imo. The scousers have a 55 year old carragher, skertal (sp ) and the injury prone tatooed gobshite agger so do you not think that they could do with a centre back ? Samba is a player that no other medium sized club is even chasing and yet we are to believe that signing the guy would be a coup ? We have a glaring need at centre back and of that there is no doubt but the ability to head a ball should not be the only factor to consider when signing a centre back
No one showed interest in Van Der Sar while he was at Fulham apart from Utd. What a shit keeper eh? Only managed to finally fill the void left by Schmeichel.
Gunnersaurus wrote:Age is only a number, Ian Wright is a prime example.
For me he just is everything we don't have, someone that will head all day, fight and bully all day and kick it out of the ground as opposed to being too elegant and getting caught in possession.
I'm dreading a pairing of Vermaelen and Koscienly, you could not get two identical styles, we need someone that can handle a Kevin Davies, Andy Carroll or John Carew, its where we get found out.
We need defenders that enjoy defending.
I agree with a lot of what you say but you want to buy samba based solely on his ability to face up to a handful of similar type's of players he will face in the premier league - what will happen when he plays in the champs league and against the smaller nippy forwards he will face in the prem league ? Fcuk all mobility and fcuk all experience at the top level speels potential disaster to me cos at least if he had experience playing at the top level he could use that experience to position himself better and maybe mask his lack of mobility
That's why you have partnerships at the back augie. Samba will not deal with every attacker on his own, he'll have the big powerful CF types while Vermaelen deals with smaller nippy ones. Contrasting styles are the way to go, just look at Utd with Vidic and Ferdinand and before them Terry and Carvalho and us with Sol and Kolo. Two different CB partnerships are the key to success.
Samba is faster than you give him credit for by the way. Much faster than Vidic and Terry for example.
If those two can succeed in the CL I'm sure Samba will do just fine.
Gunnersaurus wrote:Age is only a number, Ian Wright is a prime example.
For me he just is everything we don't have, someone that will head all day, fight and bully all day and kick it out of the ground as opposed to being too elegant and getting caught in possession.
I'm dreading a pairing of Vermaelen and Koscienly, you could not get two identical styles, we need someone that can handle a Kevin Davies, Andy Carroll or John Carew, its where we get found out.
We need defenders that enjoy defending.
I agree with a lot of what you say but you want to buy samba based solely on his ability to face up to a handful of similar type's of players he will face in the premier league - what will happen when he plays in the champs league and against the smaller nippy forwards he will face in the prem league ? Fcuk all mobility and fcuk all experience at the top level speels potential disaster to me cos at least if he had experience playing at the top level he could use that experience to position himself better and maybe mask his lack of mobility
If it becomes that much of an issue then he don't start in those games and Wenger uses his squad, he needs to wise up tacticaly and stop throwing mud at the wall hoping it eventually sticks.
On Sat Guardiola benched Puyol, maybe he was injured but maybe the decision was made easier due to wanting someone more mobile there, who knows but he changed it and it worked.
Thing to remember is that Samba would be coming for under 10m not 20m so there would be flexibility to use him if he wants to, its the sort of player our squad is crying out for along with a clued up ball winner and someone that can take a free kick.
If I'm honest I would rather have Phil Jones as for me he is the future but Samba would improve us, that I am sure off.
the question is is he better than wot we've got ?of course he is.is he the best?you dont know untill you play him.we've had hatfulls of the countrys best and they have dissapointed on the other hand we've had cast offs who have become the worlds best.anyway a change is as good as a rest
Gunnersaurus wrote:LeftfootlegendGooner wrote: Gunnersaurus wrote: Because they are shit but how many clubs did we fight off for Henry or Bergkamp?
It works both ways.
Buy we did have competition for those players, we just paid big money at the time, totally different.
But we had no competition so by your logic they are shit.
Your argument is flawed cos you refuse to believe opposing facts so can't be arsed, like arguing with a woman
How is it flawed? I'm just asking the question, if a player is not good enough because one of the top clubs are not trying to get in first then how do you explain those two?
I'm only seeing one flawed logic here.
If a player fits then he fits, I doubt Chelsea or us made a move for Hernandez, is he shit?
It is flawed for the following reasons -
Bergkamp was one of the most coveted young players in europe when he left what was then a top european side (ajax) to join another top european club (inter). After one poor season inter decided that he wasnt the man for them but we, through David Dein, stole a march on the rest of his admirers and his signing caused major shockwaves at that time. Henry too had been a top player for a big european club (monaco) when he left to join the turin giants juve but he too failed to inspire after one season and again we got in and nabbed him through wenger's history with him before any other club could react. Signing those two players who had 2 major european superclubs on each of their cv's is not the same as comparing the signing of samba cos his cv doesnt read as a who is who of world football but is more like a "who ?"
I would also like to add that somebody made a comment stating that no other big club needs a centre back hence the lack of competition for his signiture and I am sorry but that is absolutely dogshite imo. The scousers have a 55 year old carragher, skertal (sp ) and the injury prone tatooed gobshite agger so do you not think that they could do with a centre back ? Samba is a player that no other medium sized club is even chasing and yet we are to believe that signing the guy would be a coup ? We have a glaring need at centre back and of that there is no doubt but the ability to head a ball should not be the only factor to consider when signing a centre back
No one showed interest in Van Der Sar while he was at Fulham apart from Utd. What a shit keeper eh? Only managed to finally fill the void left by Schmeichel.
Again mate by suggesting van der sar you are picking out a player that has a very impressive cv having played for ajax (think he won a champs lge medal there) and by playing for juve and of course having played international football for many years inc world cups and european championships so it isnt as if he had played for nobody of note in his career or was unproven at the highest level which of course samba is
Reading this thread is so depressing as it shows just how bad our defensive situation has become under Wenger and it also shows just how desperate us fans are for a fresh approach.
Chris Samba isn't the best - he's probably not even in the World's Top 20 centre halves - but he would be a big improvement on most of the weak, feeble, lazy, useless CH's we've had recently.
Stepanovs / Cygan / Koscielny / Squillaci / Djourou - what an average bunch. Not one of them will ever own a PL or CL winners medal !!!!
Samba isn't quick but then neither is John Terry and neither were Keown, Adams or Bould. What Samba would bring (hopefully) is a big, imposing presence at the back and no-one can deny that that is where we've fallen down so many times in recent years.
I think he will be willing to pay more for an attacking player but I can't see him spending £20m on Subotic for instance.
) and the injury prone tatooed gobshite agger so do you not think that they could do with a centre back ? Samba is a player that no other medium sized club is even chasing and yet we are to believe that signing the guy would be a coup ? 
We have a glaring need at centre back and of that there is no doubt but the ability to head a ball should not be the only factor to consider when signing a centre back
