franksav63 wrote:WE'RE..... WE'RE....safcftm wrote:we're looking decent now imo, goal coming soonyour not Ukrainian are you...???
Lansbury looking fairly tidy like
U-21 Tournament
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franksav63
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yeah, he's had a decent bit of the ball, some good passes and vision and he looks fairly combative. To be honest no one has played particularly well other than the centre backs, but since he's been on he's looked very comfortable (typically he gives away possession as i type!)franksav63 wrote:safcftm wrote:franksav63 wrote:WE'RE..... WE'RE....safcftm wrote:we're looking decent now imo, goal coming soon
Lansbury looking fairly tidy like
Is he??? I'm totally fed up with football at the moment...
Damn it, really should have sneaked that one. Not a great performance like, the centre backs looked quality but other than that it was frustrating because we only really started to get playing in the last 30 minutes or so. Why the fuck we elected to hoof the ball forwards to Welbeck constantly in the first half I'll never know (nowt surprises me with the incredibly limited Pearce in charge though)
Thought Lansbury looked very good tonight. Good tackling, didn't look scared to go in, good passing, and a long-distance shot. Yes, I was impressed. Could even have got the winner very late on twice, if the ball had been better played when he was put through down the left side, and then got into a nice position on an England break later on, but the ball wasn't played to him.
Looks OK, imo.
The centre-backs did look very impressive though.
Who do they play for?
Looks OK, imo.
The centre-backs did look very impressive though.
Who do they play for?
Although the 'hoof it over the top for Welbeck to run on to it' tactic should have produced a goal - so maybe Pearce does know?safcftm wrote: Why the fuck we elected to hoof the ball forwards to Welbeck constantly in the first half I'll never know (nowt surprises me with the incredibly limited Pearce in charge though)
Babu wrote:Although the 'hoof it over the top for Welbeck to run on to it' tactic should have produced a goal - so maybe Pearce does know?safcftm wrote: Why the fuck we elected to hoof the ball forwards to Welbeck constantly in the first half I'll never know (nowt surprises me with the incredibly limited Pearce in charge though)
trouble is, that tactic can always nick a goal and win you a game, but it will never be good enough for us to win a tournament. I think the U-21s are important, we should be developing the lads, getting them playing a certain way so that they can break into the senior side and carry that style with them (a bit like how Wenger has your carling cup side playing good, passing football, Arsenal seem to play the same style right through the levels). I suppose we are doing that to an extent, we're bringing through players playing the same kick and rush style that the seniors fall into all too often. We know its a recipe for failure though, so we have to be changing the style and the mentality, that should start with the youth levels so that they can eventually change the way the seniors play. Quite depressing really to see that for all their talk the FA learn nothing, they still have dinosaurs like Brooking involved and they still have dinosaurs like Pearce picking the players and making them play an outdated, ineffective style of football. Oh well, 30+ more years of hurt then I grew up in England in the 70s, and it was the big kids that got picked for teams, or the fast kids.safcftm wrote:
We know its a recipe for failure though, so we have to be changing the style and the mentality, that should start with the youth levels so that they can eventually change the way the seniors play.
Quite depressing really to see that for all their talk the FA learn nothing, they still have dinosaurs like Brooking involved and they still have dinosaurs like Pearce picking the players and making them play an outdated, ineffective style of football. Oh well, 30+ more years of hurt then
I was pretty big and I was fast. I got picked for school and district but I was basically shite. Went for a few trials and got rejected by everyone. Well, both of them.
Anyway, I found sex and drugs and rock and roll and things went another way, but that's another story.
My brother has kids now and they play for their area and school, and they still really have the same requirements - big or fast, or big and fast.
Now I live in Switzerland, and am quite involved in football here, and the difference is incredible. I mean from A to Z the whole approach is just different, from training and the way the games are played, to what they look for and what is wanted from the players.
OK; Switzerland will probably never be a world football power, as there are too few people and too many other sports that kids want to do here, but I was just using that as an example as I live here, but I really do find it amazing how the game in England has stood still. And of course England's problem is not Switzerland, but that every other country is also advancing, and with football almost becoming a non-contact sport now the advantages that the English style had - power and strength - are just useless now at the International level.
England seriously has massive problems at youth level, and they have to do something now...but that was already the case when I was in school.
Remember Holland playing Total Football while we were running cross country through rivers of mud to build our strength up.
Spot on- I was saying earlier (I think in this thread) that the whole approach is wrong- too much emphasis on big, athletic players (either Carroll types, or the likes of Walcott, SWP, Lennon who can run fast as fuck but can hardly control a football), too quick to progress to full size pitches (where again the quick players flourish at a young age and the physical players flourish), not enough games with a maximum of 2 or 3 touches (so players get used to controlling the ball first time, one touch to move it to the side, then pick a pass), not enough games where the ball isnt allowed above head height so there is too much of a tendency to hoof it to the big lad up front etc.
I came across an article a while ago about a british coach with a different outlook and it has been brought up again so i thought i'd copy it here, it highlights a lot of what is wrong- this is the kind of person the FA should be bringing in, not the likes of Carragher, Pearce etc (its a long article, but its pretty good):
Roger Spry is probably the most famous English football coach you've never heard of.
Not that it bothers him, but for someone who has worked with Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, Carlos Quieroz, Sir Bobby Robson, Mario Zagallo and Carlos Alberto Parreria, he really deserves a little more recognition in his homeland.
In fact Mourinho used to be his assistant during Spry's spell as conditioning coach at Portuguese side Vitoria Setubal in the early 1990s, where he was number two to former Manchester City boss Malcolm Allison.
It's difficult to imagine the 'Special One' taking orders from anyone, but Spry is a man worth listening to, especially his theories about the skills deficiency in British football.
The affable Brummie has spent the last 25 years in 18 different countries as a conditioning coach, working with players like Portuguese internationals Luis Figo and Deco.
But his interpretation of a conditioning coach is very different to the British definition.
"People assume I work on athletic abilities, but my job is different," Spry told BBC Sport. "English football traditionally has always been based on athletics, we are taught to be athletically and physically strong.
It's like teaching someone to write - you teach them the alphabet but what they write is down to their creativity
"But in Portugal and South America, the game is based on dance-like movements.
"They emphasise creativity, physical agility and dexterity and above all the ability to disguise.
"I work on a combination of fitness, agility, mobility, with and without the ball - call it technical conditioning."
A former apprentice at Wolves during the late 60s, Spry realised he had more interest in skills development than playing football, adamant there was something missing from what he was being told by his coaches.
The pursuit for the missing component has taken him to Portugal and Brazil, where he learned the 'Joga Bonita' philosophy was based around a martial art banned by the Brazilian government.
Capoeira is a 'fight-dance' martial art which was practised by enslaved Africans transported over to Brazil by the Portuguese in the 19th century.
The movements rely on surprise and improvisation, two integral traits of the Brazilian football philosophy.
"I would say 99% of Brazilian players's movements are based on Capoeria," said Spry, a fluent Portuguese speaker.
"Players are taught them as a part of their coaching curriculum, using these skills to read their opponent's movements.
"That is what Cristiano Ronaldo or Figo will do.
"These guys are very difficult to read because they never do the same thing twice. All their moves are based in their opponent's initial response to their first movements."
Spry is hoping to redress the skills deficiency in British football with the Trick-sok, a tool he hopes will help develop "the footballer's alphabet".
Each part of the foot is separated into different areas using the Portuguese 'lingua da rua' (language of the street) to encourage players to use every single part of the foot from an early age, not just the side.
"We want to encourage players to use the outside, inside, the top, instep and one part of the foot we rarely use in the British game, the heel," said Spry.
"If we see these sorts of things we think they are tricks, but the Brazilians practise these things over and over again until it ceases to become a trick. Instead it becomes a skill.
"It's like teaching someone to write - you teach them the alphabet but what they write is down to their creativity."
But despite waxing lyrical about the Brazilian philosophy, Spry is not about to denounce British coaching methodology in favour of the skills revolution.
Instead he is keen to nurture a newer generation of footballers with a greater emphasis on skills rather than athletic ability.
"We are more interested at winning at a young age, we must get out of this mentality," said Spry.
The 'lingua da rua' has developed some of Brazil's greatest players
"You see it at six, young kids playing with parents and coaches screaming at them, the kids are terrified. There are none of those pressures on Portuguese or Brazilian players.
"They are more interested in development. They have a wonderful saying in Portuguese - when you start playing football, the word is play football and you don't spell play 'WORK'.
"Football is freedom and expression, joy - it is a spiritual experience with your friends whether you are playing with or against them."
Spry is currently working as a consultant to the Austrian FA, spending eight days a month working with the national team.
He still keeps in contact with Mourinho, Quieroz and Wenger, but rather than reminisce about the good times Spry is busy spreading the skills gospel to the world.
And he is quite content being the most famous man in football you have never heard of.
I came across an article a while ago about a british coach with a different outlook and it has been brought up again so i thought i'd copy it here, it highlights a lot of what is wrong- this is the kind of person the FA should be bringing in, not the likes of Carragher, Pearce etc (its a long article, but its pretty good):
Roger Spry is probably the most famous English football coach you've never heard of.
Not that it bothers him, but for someone who has worked with Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, Carlos Quieroz, Sir Bobby Robson, Mario Zagallo and Carlos Alberto Parreria, he really deserves a little more recognition in his homeland.
In fact Mourinho used to be his assistant during Spry's spell as conditioning coach at Portuguese side Vitoria Setubal in the early 1990s, where he was number two to former Manchester City boss Malcolm Allison.
It's difficult to imagine the 'Special One' taking orders from anyone, but Spry is a man worth listening to, especially his theories about the skills deficiency in British football.
The affable Brummie has spent the last 25 years in 18 different countries as a conditioning coach, working with players like Portuguese internationals Luis Figo and Deco.
But his interpretation of a conditioning coach is very different to the British definition.
"People assume I work on athletic abilities, but my job is different," Spry told BBC Sport. "English football traditionally has always been based on athletics, we are taught to be athletically and physically strong.
It's like teaching someone to write - you teach them the alphabet but what they write is down to their creativity
"But in Portugal and South America, the game is based on dance-like movements.
"They emphasise creativity, physical agility and dexterity and above all the ability to disguise.
"I work on a combination of fitness, agility, mobility, with and without the ball - call it technical conditioning."
A former apprentice at Wolves during the late 60s, Spry realised he had more interest in skills development than playing football, adamant there was something missing from what he was being told by his coaches.
The pursuit for the missing component has taken him to Portugal and Brazil, where he learned the 'Joga Bonita' philosophy was based around a martial art banned by the Brazilian government.
Capoeira is a 'fight-dance' martial art which was practised by enslaved Africans transported over to Brazil by the Portuguese in the 19th century.
The movements rely on surprise and improvisation, two integral traits of the Brazilian football philosophy.
"I would say 99% of Brazilian players's movements are based on Capoeria," said Spry, a fluent Portuguese speaker.
"Players are taught them as a part of their coaching curriculum, using these skills to read their opponent's movements.
"That is what Cristiano Ronaldo or Figo will do.
"These guys are very difficult to read because they never do the same thing twice. All their moves are based in their opponent's initial response to their first movements."
Spry is hoping to redress the skills deficiency in British football with the Trick-sok, a tool he hopes will help develop "the footballer's alphabet".
Each part of the foot is separated into different areas using the Portuguese 'lingua da rua' (language of the street) to encourage players to use every single part of the foot from an early age, not just the side.
"We want to encourage players to use the outside, inside, the top, instep and one part of the foot we rarely use in the British game, the heel," said Spry.
"If we see these sorts of things we think they are tricks, but the Brazilians practise these things over and over again until it ceases to become a trick. Instead it becomes a skill.
"It's like teaching someone to write - you teach them the alphabet but what they write is down to their creativity."
But despite waxing lyrical about the Brazilian philosophy, Spry is not about to denounce British coaching methodology in favour of the skills revolution.
Instead he is keen to nurture a newer generation of footballers with a greater emphasis on skills rather than athletic ability.
"We are more interested at winning at a young age, we must get out of this mentality," said Spry.
The 'lingua da rua' has developed some of Brazil's greatest players
"You see it at six, young kids playing with parents and coaches screaming at them, the kids are terrified. There are none of those pressures on Portuguese or Brazilian players.
"They are more interested in development. They have a wonderful saying in Portuguese - when you start playing football, the word is play football and you don't spell play 'WORK'.
"Football is freedom and expression, joy - it is a spiritual experience with your friends whether you are playing with or against them."
Spry is currently working as a consultant to the Austrian FA, spending eight days a month working with the national team.
He still keeps in contact with Mourinho, Quieroz and Wenger, but rather than reminisce about the good times Spry is busy spreading the skills gospel to the world.
And he is quite content being the most famous man in football you have never heard of.
Unfortunately yes, we have fuck all left wingers in the country! Its not a great side this tbh, but then this is partly because of the rapid rise of Wilshere and Carroll- had they both stayed at U21 level we would have been a real threat this tournament but because they both had exceptional seasons, they've moved up to the seniors. Many of the sides in the tournament are playing players who have had senior caps and been moved back down to U-21, I think of our lot only Welbeck and Henderson have been capped (i could be wrong) and they have 1 cap each, both in friendlies. We're a fairly young, inexperienced squad compared to many and taking players as good as Wilshere and Carroll out was always going to leave us looking less impressiveTeeCee wrote:This is the worst U-21 squad we've had for a while imo. Sturridge is the only one with the ability to do something out of nothing. No chance of us winning it whatsoever. How the fuck is Rose anywhere near that team? Are England that desperate??
and heres another cracking article about Spry, he has it absolutely spot on, especially about the different between Walcott/ Lennon and, well, good footballers. In fact, the whole article is spot on, well worth a read
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/ ... _heard_of/
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/ ... _heard_of/
