WONDERFUL ARTICLE

[QuartzGooner]

Wonderful article?

It reads like a very average post on this Forum, offers no new insight.

Babatunde, whilst I am not keen on your occasional "Mr Angry" writing style and baiting of Brazilian Gooner I would say that nearly all your posts offer more interest, tactical insight and historical awareness than that article.

[OneBardGooner]

If that was the case then every single sports writer might as well destroy their pens and laptops right now, because what do they know about 'supporting the Arsenal'?

exactly. most sportswriters are full of it. they are there to report, who cares about their opinions - we want the facts no ?

imho this is a better article :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -hero.html

They did warn him. They did suggest that replacing Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain with Andrey Arshavin might not be such a good idea. Robin van Persie shook his head. The supporters voiced their disapproval.

Rarely has Arsene Wenger faced such criticism at The Emirates. Never has he encountered such dissent from his captain. A lip-reading expert would be useful at this juncture but Van Persie seemed to suggest the 74th-minute switch was something of a joke.

Wenger ignored the concerns being expressed, just as he ignored the fact that Oxlade-Chamberlain had just crowned a fine attacking performance with the touch of class that had invited Van Persie to score a brilliant equaliser. Boy did it come back to bite him.

The supporters, in particular those behind the dug-outs, were less than amused. There was ironic applause when Welbeck scored and a similarly ironic chant of ‘There’s only one Arsene Wenger.’ There was even a chorus of ‘You don’t know what you’re doing.’

Because it was Wenger, it felt significant. Because the Frenchman is held in such high regard at Arsenal, it felt like another reason why he might not be in charge beyond the end of what is becoming an increasingly difficult season. This, after all, was their third straight Barclays Premier League defeat.

The decision to replace Oxlade-Chamberlain with Arshavin was baffling, even if the young winger might not have been any more effective in stopping the powerfully built Valencia.....

It Saddens me - because of the fantastic times he (AW) brought to the club, but those times are now gone...so yes he has to go, BUT....

Anyone who thinks ANY sports journo/reporter is 100% unbiased is in illusion, they all have their axe's to grind...and will do so any, which way they can...why? coz they're all a bunch of slippery poisonous *word censored*...

I have my opinions and I don't need no journotossbag to try and prove otherwise....I'm happy to discuss/argue with other Gooner's because in the end each party has the clubs best interests at heart...Journos DON'T..all they are interested in is getting their name/article in print and that usually means taking a Negative stance / slant on someone/something etc...


ALL JOURNO'S ARE CUNTTS END OF.

[Barriecuda]

Not a particularly convincing or well-written article. The author played down the Invincibles so much that it really discredits what he's saying. There's a reason that feat hasn't been achieved more than twice in about a century.

It reads like a very average post on this Forum, offers no new insight.

+1

[Babatunde]

Wonderful article?

It reads like a very average post on this Forum, offers no new insight.

Babatunde, whilst I am not keen on your occasional "Mr Angry" writing style and baiting of Brazilian Gooner I would say that nearly all your posts offer more interest, tactical insight and historical awareness than that article.

Thanks Quartz. Good to chat to someone with a modicum of intelligence!

[Babatunde]

If that was the case then every single sports writer might as well destroy their pens and laptops right now, because what do they know about 'supporting the Arsenal'?

exactly. most sportswriters are full of it. they are there to report, who cares about their opinions - we want the facts no ?

imho this is a better article :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -hero.html

They did warn him. They did suggest that replacing Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain with Andrey Arshavin might not be such a good idea. Robin van Persie shook his head. The supporters voiced their disapproval.

Rarely has Arsene Wenger faced such criticism at The Emirates. Never has he encountered such dissent from his captain. A lip-reading expert would be useful at this juncture but Van Persie seemed to suggest the 74th-minute switch was something of a joke.

Wenger ignored the concerns being expressed, just as he ignored the fact that Oxlade-Chamberlain had just crowned a fine attacking performance with the touch of class that had invited Van Persie to score a brilliant equaliser. Boy did it come back to bite him.

The supporters, in particular those behind the dug-outs, were less than amused. There was ironic applause when Welbeck scored and a similarly ironic chant of ‘There’s only one Arsene Wenger.’ There was even a chorus of ‘You don’t know what you’re doing.’

Because it was Wenger, it felt significant. Because the Frenchman is held in such high regard at Arsenal, it felt like another reason why he might not be in charge beyond the end of what is becoming an increasingly difficult season. This, after all, was their third straight Barclays Premier League defeat.

The decision to replace Oxlade-Chamberlain with Arshavin was baffling, even if the young winger might not have been any more effective in stopping the powerfully built Valencia.....

It Saddens me - because of the fantastic times he (AW) brought to the club, but those times are now gone...so yes he has to go, BUT....

Anyone who thinks ANY sports journo/reporter is 100% unbiased is in illusion, they all have their axe's to grind...and will do so any, which way they can...why? coz they're all a bunch of slippery poisonous c**ts...

I have my opinions and I don't need no journotossbag to try and prove otherwise....I'm happy to discuss/argue with other Gooner's because in the end each party has the clubs best interests at heart...Journos DON'T..all they are interested in is getting their name/article in print and that usually means taking a Negative stance / slant on someone/something etc...


ALL JOURNO'S ARE CUNTTS END OF.

Again, hard to disagree with the final sentence of that!

[Offside]

The Invincible season seems to have insulated Wenger from fan criticism. Given that Wenger's Arsenal have never retained the title, or won the Champions League, can we really say that he has built a truly great team? An Arsenal fan was quoted in Jon Spurling's book about Highbury saying that some fans (himself included) felt rather frustrated after the 2004 season because a great chance of winning the ECL had been lost and that it was all very well thrashing mid-table fodder but perhaps it was time for Arsenal to do the same in Europe. Even at the time, I felt that the 2004 team should have won more trophies.

[flash gunner]

Also, Brazilian 'Gooner', when you keep talking about the Invincibles as 'The greatest achievement in our history', please be sure to add the Disclaimer that like most Chelski fans, our 'history' to you began in 1997/98.

You wouldn't be able to compare it to Anfield 89', since the club didn't exist back then pre-Arsene

I was around for both eras of Arsenal and id say to go the whole season unbeaten was better than '89. Nothing can take away the pure, instant, extreme joy of winning the league like we did in '89 but to go the whole season unbeaten is absolute class week after week after week after week and is unrivaled IMO......... and no im not an Arsene FC merchant like you like to throw around i went to most home games and loads of aways in '89 so id like to think i have a clear perspective

[DB10GOONER]

The article in question does make a couple of valid points but it is all too obviously written by some arsehole that has had the hate for Arsenal for years and now finally has the chance to put a couple of kicks in. Yeah yeah he dresses it up as "unbiased" and "balanced" but that is just window dressing bollocks to try and justify his putting the boot in without devaluing his piece. For me he fails.

The Chav point total comparison is the work of a fuckwit tbh.

There's a few people on here need to stop letting their hatred of Wenger overpower their love of Arsenal.

DB10. I see your point and of course, the Invincibles was a massive achievement. However answer me this please if you could.

1. Do you think a Treble is a bigger achievement?
2. If a team goes unbeaten in a season, and wins the league but draws every single one of its away games for instance....but wins every home game (that would be enough to win the league with 76 points in a crap year).....Now that's unbeaten, but do you think it's better than say an Arsenal team going a whole season losing not more than twice but accumulating more points? I am talking statistically speaking here?

The Invincibles is a unique achievement that is undeniable. However what I just do not get, is how it is somehow indicative of an agenda, if anyone questions whether it is a bigger achievement than say e.g. a Treble, or even a Double?

Because ultimately, you win the one trophy.

Like I said. Amazing achievement, but the guy writing the article does make the point that it needs to be put in context: does Wenger's current performance become exonerated because of the Invincibles? Is that enough you seriously think?

Regarding point 1 - I think this can be subjective in many ways. A Treble is a huge achievement, there is no denying that. To stay competitive and then win 3 major comps is massive. But I would qualify that by saying it is dictated by squad size and quality more than an Invincibles season would be. Manure’s Treble was done at a time when they were the big spenders, they had more money and spent more than anyone else. Now there are other clubs with greater financial clout on the block. We did the unbeaten season with a fairly small squad (quality-wise) so our Invincible season was dictated by the quality of the team, rather than the size of the squad.

Do I think another team will go a season unbeaten? I doubt it very much. With the intensity of the PL it is a huge ask. Will another PL team do the Treble? I’d say yes, because the billionaire playboys that now inject so much cash into clubs can mean a Citeh or a Chavs team building effectively two first team squads and remaining competitive in all 3 competitions.

So, personally I think the Invincibles was a greater achievement but that is just my personal opinion and isn’t meant to denigrate what a huge achievement a Treble is. I just think taking both in context of the clubs and the time they won it leads me to pick the unbeaten season. And I believe EVERYTHING should be judged in context.

As for point 2? I would still say to go a whole PL season without getting beaten once is by far the bigger achievement over ANY points accumulation. There is a psychological element to being unbeaten, it requires a strength of character and drive that cannot be quantified by points accumulated. More wins and less draws is great - but ultimately at least once that team would have walked off a PL pitch as losers. The 04 Invincibles never did that in that whole PL season. Never once walked off a PL pitch as losers. That is simply exceptional.

Personally I don’t agree with the “you win the one trophyâ€

[DB10GOONER]

As achievements go I'd say 04 is bigger than 89.

BUT for the pleasure it gave me NOTHING will ever beat that moment in 89. We had lost it. It was gone. We'd fucked it up. Oh, we had it won and then we fucking collapsed and we had lost it. No one (not even most of us!) gave us a Harry Redkrapps chance in a prison shower of winning it at Anfield.

And then in one glorious amazing life changing moment we did just that. The Mouser fuckers were congratulating each other on the fucking pitch and we went and fucked them.

Still, and always will be, the greatest moment ever.

[flash gunner]

As achievements go I'd say 04 is bigger than 89.

BUT for the pleasure it gave me NOTHING will ever beat that moment in 89. We had lost it. It was gone. We'd fucked it up. Oh, we had it won and then we fucking collapsed and we had lost it. No one (not even most of us!) gave us a Harry Redkrapps chance in a prison shower of winning it at Anfield.

And then in one glorious amazing life changing moment we did just that. The Mouser fuckers were congratulating each other on the fucking pitch and we went and fucked them.

Still, and always will be, the greatest moment ever.

Totally agree. As a moment it was absolutely momentus and i feel priviledged to have experienced it

[DB10GOONER]

As achievements go I'd say 04 is bigger than 89.

BUT for the pleasure it gave me NOTHING will ever beat that moment in 89. We had lost it. It was gone. We'd fucked it up. Oh, we had it won and then we fucking collapsed and we had lost it. No one (not even most of us!) gave us a Harry Redkrapps chance in a prison shower of winning it at Anfield.

And then in one glorious amazing life changing moment we did just that. The Mouser fuckers were congratulating each other on the fucking pitch and we went and fucked them.

Still, and always will be, the greatest moment ever.

Totally agree. As a moment it was absolutely momentus and i feel priviledged to have experienced it

Even now it still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I watch it.

[brazilianGOONER]

The article in question does make a couple of valid points but it is all too obviously written by some arsehole that has had the hate for Arsenal for years and now finally has the chance to put a couple of kicks in. Yeah yeah he dresses it up as "unbiased" and "balanced" but that is just window dressing bollocks to try and justify his putting the boot in without devaluing his piece. For me he fails.

The Chav point total comparison is the work of a fuckwit tbh.

There's a few people on here need to stop letting their hatred of Wenger overpower their love of Arsenal.

DB10. I see your point and of course, the Invincibles was a massive achievement. However answer me this please if you could.

1. Do you think a Treble is a bigger achievement?
2. If a team goes unbeaten in a season, and wins the league but draws every single one of its away games for instance....but wins every home game (that would be enough to win the league with 76 points in a crap year).....Now that's unbeaten, but do you think it's better than say an Arsenal team going a whole season losing not more than twice but accumulating more points? I am talking statistically speaking here?

The Invincibles is a unique achievement that is undeniable. However what I just do not get, is how it is somehow indicative of an agenda, if anyone questions whether it is a bigger achievement than say e.g. a Treble, or even a Double?

Because ultimately, you win the one trophy.

Like I said. Amazing achievement, but the guy writing the article does make the point that it needs to be put in context: does Wenger's current performance become exonerated because of the Invincibles? Is that enough you seriously think?

Regarding point 1 - I think this can be subjective in many ways. A Treble is a huge achievement, there is no denying that. To stay competitive and then win 3 major comps is massive. But I would qualify that by saying it is dictated by squad size and quality more than an Invincibles season would be. Manure’s Treble was done at a time when they were the big spenders, they had more money and spent more than anyone else. Now there are other clubs with greater financial clout on the block. We did the unbeaten season with a fairly small squad (quality-wise) so our Invincible season was dictated by the quality of the team, rather than the size of the squad.

Do I think another team will go a season unbeaten? I doubt it very much. With the intensity of the PL it is a huge ask. Will another PL team do the Treble? I’d say yes, because the billionaire playboys that now inject so much cash into clubs can mean a Citeh or a Chavs team building effectively two first team squads and remaining competitive in all 3 competitions.

So, personally I think the Invincibles was a greater achievement but that is just my personal opinion and isn’t meant to denigrate what a huge achievement a Treble is. I just think taking both in context of the clubs and the time they won it leads me to pick the unbeaten season. And I believe EVERYTHING should be judged in context.

As for point 2? I would still say to go a whole PL season without getting beaten once is by far the bigger achievement over ANY points accumulation. There is a psychological element to being unbeaten, it requires a strength of character and drive that cannot be quantified by points accumulated. More wins and less draws is great - but ultimately at least once that team would have walked off a PL pitch as losers. The 04 Invincibles never did that in that whole PL season. Never once walked off a PL pitch as losers. That is simply exceptional.

Personally I don’t agree with the “you win the one trophyâ€

[DB10GOONER]

The article in question does make a couple of valid points but it is all too obviously written by some arsehole that has had the hate for Arsenal for years and now finally has the chance to put a couple of kicks in. Yeah yeah he dresses it up as "unbiased" and "balanced" but that is just window dressing bollocks to try and justify his putting the boot in without devaluing his piece. For me he fails.

The Chav point total comparison is the work of a fuckwit tbh.

There's a few people on here need to stop letting their hatred of Wenger overpower their love of Arsenal.

DB10. I see your point and of course, the Invincibles was a massive achievement. However answer me this please if you could.

1. Do you think a Treble is a bigger achievement?
2. If a team goes unbeaten in a season, and wins the league but draws every single one of its away games for instance....but wins every home game (that would be enough to win the league with 76 points in a crap year).....Now that's unbeaten, but do you think it's better than say an Arsenal team going a whole season losing not more than twice but accumulating more points? I am talking statistically speaking here?

The Invincibles is a unique achievement that is undeniable. However what I just do not get, is how it is somehow indicative of an agenda, if anyone questions whether it is a bigger achievement than say e.g. a Treble, or even a Double?

Because ultimately, you win the one trophy.

Like I said. Amazing achievement, but the guy writing the article does make the point that it needs to be put in context: does Wenger's current performance become exonerated because of the Invincibles? Is that enough you seriously think?

Regarding point 1 - I think this can be subjective in many ways. A Treble is a huge achievement, there is no denying that. To stay competitive and then win 3 major comps is massive. But I would qualify that by saying it is dictated by squad size and quality more than an Invincibles season would be. Manure’s Treble was done at a time when they were the big spenders, they had more money and spent more than anyone else. Now there are other clubs with greater financial clout on the block. We did the unbeaten season with a fairly small squad (quality-wise) so our Invincible season was dictated by the quality of the team, rather than the size of the squad.

Do I think another team will go a season unbeaten? I doubt it very much. With the intensity of the PL it is a huge ask. Will another PL team do the Treble? I’d say yes, because the billionaire playboys that now inject so much cash into clubs can mean a Citeh or a Chavs team building effectively two first team squads and remaining competitive in all 3 competitions.

So, personally I think the Invincibles was a greater achievement but that is just my personal opinion and isn’t meant to denigrate what a huge achievement a Treble is. I just think taking both in context of the clubs and the time they won it leads me to pick the unbeaten season. And I believe EVERYTHING should be judged in context.

As for point 2? I would still say to go a whole PL season without getting beaten once is by far the bigger achievement over ANY points accumulation. There is a psychological element to being unbeaten, it requires a strength of character and drive that cannot be quantified by points accumulated. More wins and less draws is great - but ultimately at least once that team would have walked off a PL pitch as losers. The 04 Invincibles never did that in that whole PL season. Never once walked off a PL pitch as losers. That is simply exceptional.

Personally I don’t agree with the “you win the one trophyâ€

[goonersid]

Personally, I put 89 ahead of the invincibles given the context of that actual game, the invincibles may be repeated, I doubt 89 ever will.
As for putting the invincibles ahead of utd's treble, what ever the the finances or squads available, is rosetinting on a never before seen scale on this forum

[DB10GOONER]

Personally, I put 89 ahead of the invincibles given the context of that actual game, the invincibles may be repeated, I doubt 89 ever will.
As for putting the invincibles ahead of utd's treble, what ever the the finances or squads available, is rosetinting on a never before seen scale on this forum

Don't agree, sid. Finances and squad size are key factors. Would Manure have won that Treble without that squad size and the quality in depth? Maybe, but I doubt it very much.

I agree most people in football would probably rate the Treble higher but then most people in football cannot see past Manure and refuse to put it in context.

Also I'm not saying the unbeaten season is far superior to their Treble or anything like that. I'm saying 04 just about shades their treble. For me anyway, because of the context they're both in.