Song is the new Fabregas

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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T.S
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by T.S »

I Hate Hleb wrote:
T.S wrote:...

A bad performance, no doubt. But one (or, admittedly two or three this season) bad performance doesn't make a bad player - just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything correctly suggest that one good run of form doesn't mean that this team has fully turned the corner....

Name names!!! :twisted: :twisted: (You mean augie don't you TS? Or is it sid? Flash perhaps? Gosh, there are just too many options to know for sure) :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:
It's not Augie - but I do love having a go at Augie, so you can throw him in there if you want 8)

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by I Hate Hleb »

I realise now it was good old frankie boy!! Although all the names listed do qualify!! :lol: :lol: :wink:

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augie
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by augie »

I Hate Hleb wrote:
T.S wrote:...

A bad performance, no doubt. But one (or, admittedly two or three this season) bad performance doesn't make a bad player - just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything correctly suggest that one good run of form doesn't mean that this team has fully turned the corner....

Name names!!! :twisted: :twisted: (You mean augie don't you TS? Or is it sid? Flash perhaps? Gosh, there are just too many options to know for sure) :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:

There is no bloody way he can mean me :evil: This is my quote from page 15 on the qpr match thread
augie wrote:I think the criticism of tv5 is slightly over the top - he was absolutely fcuking dire today and was at fault for both goals for sure but that doesnt make him a bad defender. I actually suggested yesterday (on the 2nd mvp this season thread) that tv5 has looked far from assured lately and today was just another example of that.
I have no problems being tagged as a negative old so and so but I also believe that I can be fair when the situation arises. What I will also say though, is this does slightly differ from what TS is saying, is that I sometimes think that scoring goals can hide poor performances at the back - this was a point I made re gallas when he was here cos he was scoring goals for us at ease for a while and was being lauded for doing so meanwhile we were horrific at defending which was partially his fault

LDB
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by LDB »

frankbutcher wrote:
T.S wrote:After a performance like that, criticism of Vermalen is completely justified. However - what I don't understand is the would-be football pundits on here who seem to think that there is some kind of correlation between Vermalen bombing forward and scoring a couple of decent goals and him making a couple of mistakes at the back. Was he at fault at the weekend because he was too late running back having tried to score a goal? Of course not. To suggest that Vermalen is some kind of liability defensively because he's scored a few goals this season is the laziest piece of faux-analysis I've heard on here for a long time.

Vermalen tries to score a goal sometimes + Vermalen makes two mistakes at the back = :rubchin:

A bad performance, not doubt. But one (or, admittedly two or three this season) bad performance doesn't make a bad player - just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything correctly suggest that one good run of form doesn't mean that this team has fully turned the corner. You'll all be singing his praises again after a few good performances. That I can guarantee.

Song on the other hand fucking winds me up.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

TS - We will never get along. 8) However, there is a clear correlation between Vermaelen bombing forward and us conceding. When he bombs forward, the full-backs have to tuck in and we are too narrow. The opposition's wingers can break quickly down the flanks and thus put us under massive pressure. Whilst you may not have seen Vermaelen out of position for either goal on Saturday, the inability for the defence to sit and defend stretches play that creates space elsewhere. The result is normally goals against us.

TS - I don't think you can read a game. Simply looking at individual pieces of play is extremely lazy analysis. Make sure you join up all the "dots" that you can see. It creates a picture of an ill-disciplined team that is stretched to the point that it concedes at will.
Point remains though that I cant think of a single goal we've conceded where I've thought 'where the fuck is Vermaelen?'

Maybe you can think of some? I can think of plenty for our fullbacks and midfielders so you're not wrong about an ill-disciplined team.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by SteveO 35 »

Yeah, lets drop Vermaelen and get Djourou back in there (actually Red Member thinks this is a cunning plan !), or perhaps even better Squillaci.

Just a shame that 80 caps+ Mertesacker isn't there to show that fantastic aerial ability, physical strength and pace that make him such a commanding Premier League force

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T.S
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by T.S »

frankbutcher wrote:
T.S wrote:After a performance like that, criticism of Vermalen is completely justified. However - what I don't understand is the would-be football pundits on here who seem to think that there is some kind of correlation between Vermalen bombing forward and scoring a couple of decent goals and him making a couple of mistakes at the back. Was he at fault at the weekend because he was too late running back having tried to score a goal? Of course not. To suggest that Vermalen is some kind of liability defensively because he's scored a few goals this season is the laziest piece of faux-analysis I've heard on here for a long time.

Vermalen tries to score a goal sometimes + Vermalen makes two mistakes at the back = :rubchin:

A bad performance, not doubt. But one (or, admittedly two or three this season) bad performance doesn't make a bad player - just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything correctly suggest that one good run of form doesn't mean that this team has fully turned the corner. You'll all be singing his praises again after a few good performances. That I can guarantee.

Song on the other hand fucking winds me up.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

TS - We will never get along. 8) However, there is a clear correlation between Vermaelen bombing forward and us conceding. When he bombs forward, the full-backs have to tuck in and we are too narrow. The opposition's wingers can break quickly down the flanks and thus put us under massive pressure. Whilst you may not have seen Vermaelen out of position for either goal on Saturday, the inability for the defence to sit and defend stretches play that creates space elsewhere. The result is normally goals against us.

TS - I don't think you can read a game. Simply looking at individual pieces of play is extremely lazy analysis. Make sure you join up all the "dots" that you can see. It creates a picture of an ill-disciplined team that is stretched to the point that it concedes at will.
Thank you for the speedy reply, Frank. Your detective work in inferring that I was alluding to you is top-notch. As for you saying that we'll 'never get along' - that's a true shame. I do worry about the size of my cyber-stable of friends sometimes :cry: .

Now - a disclaimer. I did not watch the game on Saturday. Alas, I had prior engagements. So, I will bow to your having watched it ahead of my having only seen the highlights. And perhaps I can't read the game. But I've been going to The Arsenal long enough to (at least think I) have some kind of idea of how it works. Sure, I don't have the years of professional football playing and coaching time under my belt that you do. But I've seen a football game or two down the years, so I think I've got some idea of how it works.

You are correct about the need for the rest of the defence to reorganize itself whenever Vermalen bombs forward, but I would argue that;

1) That was not the problem on Saturday - unless you're arguing that Vermalen goes forward so much that the defence has just got itself in to a routine of over compensating for his poor positioning, which means that their positioning is poor whether Vermalen is there or not. If that is your argument, then I'm afraid that's rubbish.

2) If Vermalen bombs forward for a winner and the defence has to reorganize itself as a result, so what? You and I may differ here, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I like to see players who will take a chance and try to force something to happen. If the defence has to re-shuffle, then so be it. That is the 'gamble' (I know football pundits like you like to use that phrase) you have to take when trying to make things happen.

I suppose another part where you and I differ (surprise, surprise) is, I don't think Vermalen goes forward an abnormal amount. Now, again, I did not see the full game on Saturday, so if he was getting forward too much, then I stand corrected. But, I don't think it is a problem. In fact, I think that it does more good than bad. I'm sure we can both agree that there are far bigger problems in this team than Thomas Vermalen.

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I Hate Hleb
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by I Hate Hleb »

augie wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:
T.S wrote:...

A bad performance, no doubt. But one (or, admittedly two or three this season) bad performance doesn't make a bad player - just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything correctly suggest that one good run of form doesn't mean that this team has fully turned the corner....

Name names!!! :twisted: :twisted: (You mean augie don't you TS? Or is it sid? Flash perhaps? Gosh, there are just too many options to know for sure) :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink:

There is no bloody way he can mean me :evil: This is my quote from page 15 on the qpr match thread....
I was referring to the "just in the same way that certain 'realists' who reckon that they know oh-so-much about everything" part augie. :wink: :lol: Hands up though, it was a joke that didn't quite come off because I excluded frank butcher from the list. :oops: :oops: :banghead: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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augie
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by augie »

Dont worry hlebby cos me being the paranoid Gooner that I am, I also felt that TS was digging at me but although I am a very mild mannered and placid individual I decided I would defend myself on this issue 8) :wink:

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frankbutcher
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by frankbutcher »

As always someone (me in this instance) makes a post with a general point - that many members of the team aren't disciplined in doing their jobs properly. What happens is that the minutiae of one element is done to death and said poster beams in their own reflective pride at dis-proving said point. In other words, of course I'm glad that TV helps us out of the shit with vital goals, however this shouldn't need to happen in the first place and whilst it is great on many occassions, sometimes it hurts us.


BTW - TS. I like the name. It's on the same theme as B.S.

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T.S
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by T.S »

frankbutcher wrote:As always someone (me in this instance) makes a post with a general point - that many members of the team aren't disciplined in doing their jobs properly. What happens is that the minutiae of one element is done to death and said poster beams in their own reflective pride at dis-proving said point. In other words, of course I'm glad that TV helps us out of the shit with vital goals, however this shouldn't need to happen in the first place and whilst it is great on many occassions, sometimes it hurts us.
So...I was right? :lol:

Come on Frank. Don't take everything so seriously! We can be friends, can't we? :barscarf:

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frankbutcher
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by frankbutcher »

T.S wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:As always someone (me in this instance) makes a post with a general point - that many members of the team aren't disciplined in doing their jobs properly. What happens is that the minutiae of one element is done to death and said poster beams in their own reflective pride at dis-proving said point. In other words, of course I'm glad that TV helps us out of the shit with vital goals, however this shouldn't need to happen in the first place and whilst it is great on many occassions, sometimes it hurts us.
So...I was right? :lol:

Come on Frank. Don't take everything so seriously! We can be friends, can't we? :barscarf:
We can be OG friends. BTW - Can i borrow your horse? If you can successfully get off of it first (the height of it might prevent this). And finally. I was at the game. That's how i see the things people miss from watching matches on the telly or reading about it on the interweb. :rubchin:

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T.S
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by T.S »

frankbutcher wrote:
T.S wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:As always someone (me in this instance) makes a post with a general point - that many members of the team aren't disciplined in doing their jobs properly. What happens is that the minutiae of one element is done to death and said poster beams in their own reflective pride at dis-proving said point. In other words, of course I'm glad that TV helps us out of the shit with vital goals, however this shouldn't need to happen in the first place and whilst it is great on many occassions, sometimes it hurts us.
So...I was right? :lol:

Come on Frank. Don't take everything so seriously! We can be friends, can't we? :barscarf:
We can be OG friends. BTW - Can i borrow your horse? If you can successfully get off of it first (the height of it might prevent this). And finally. I was at the game. That's how i see the things people miss from watching matches on the telly or reading about it on the interweb. :rubchin:
Whooooa! Easy there, Frankie. As I said earlier on, I bow to your superior judgement for this particular game as I knew you had seen it and I had only seen the highlights. I was not trying to undermine your superfandom! What was that about high horses? :wink:

Anyway, yes you can borrow my horse. But {insert smart-arsed sarcastic condescending remark here - I can't be arsed any more}. 8) .

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frankbutcher
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Re: Song is the new Fabregas

Post by frankbutcher »

Stop horseing around. I'm not your Best Mate.

I'm off to watch Neighbours now anyway.

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