Shammers v Arsenal match thread

[SteveO 35]

The team grew a pair, which was more pleasing than anything else. 1-0 down, those morons starting to get behind their team (thanks for the 'sit down you paedophile' chants, fucking jokers) and the usual Phil Dowd Arsenal-hating performance from the wanker in the black.

Santi Cazorla and Mikel Arteta are just a fucking pair of gems. If Wilshere comes back fit and fighting and in any anywhere near his pre-injury form then we really will have a midfield to rival most others around. Jenkinson and Gibbs just continue to develop into 2 of the best full backs around as well

I'm sorry but the Mertesacker worship I just don't get for yesterday's performance. Excellent on the deck on times - the tackle on Nolan in particular in the second half was timed to perfection - but he showed all the reasons aerially why he disappointed me so much last season. People come on here giving TV5 bundles but at least he's prepared to put his head in and do the rough stuff. Watch the game again and count how many times Mertesacker gets outjumped by Carroll. For a guy of his height I'm afraid his aerial ability is very poor indeed. He worries me on the physical side of the game. TV5 in the end had to keep taking Carroll on and given the 5 or 6 six inch height advantage that shouldn't be the way it is.

But in Arsene speak "Overall I believe that we showed a very good spirit" - which for once was true !

Nice to stick one on that fat bastard and that Gooner hating *word censored* Dowd. I was convinced after the 4-4 at Newcastle (the match that was solely Diaby's fault) that he hated us but after yesterday any trace of doubt was removed. No red card for Diame, no pen on Ramsey and Phil....when the ball smashed off a defender's back and goes wide it's a corner you *word censored*. Nice that the linesman spotted it from 50 yards away though

[Metalheadz Gooner]

I'm sorry but the Mertesacker worship I just don't get for yesterday's performance. Excellent on the deck on times - the tackle on Nolan in particular in the second half was timed to perfection - but he showed all the reasons aerially why he disappointed me so much last season. People come on here giving TV5 bundles but at least he's prepared to put his head in and do the rough stuff. Watch the game again and count how many times Mertesacker gets outjumped by Carroll. For a guy of his height I'm afraid his aerial ability is very poor indeed. He worries me on the physical side of the game. TV5 in the end had to keep taking Carroll on and given the 5 or 6 six inch height advantage that shouldn't be the way it is.

Carroll is a beast, I doubt many centre backs can deal with him in the air. The way you defend against him is the second ball and we did that really well. The BFG adds a level of composure to the defence and that's the most important aspect I feel.

In the end their goal came from a great piece of skill and finish, we matched them physically like we did at Stoke and that's the most please thing, we've grown a pair!

[SteveO 35]

Two other mentions - well done to Giroud on his first proper goal. Nice striker's finish. Apparently people were tweeting on the black scarf page yesterday comparing him to TH14......there really are some very sad people around.

The Mannone-kokey didn't cost us any points yesterday but he certainly did his best by coming out and getting outjumped despite the use of both his arms at full stretch. If that Carroll header had dropped inside the post the result could have been very different. Sorry, but the bloke doesn't convince me one little bit

[LDB]

Agree with you Steveo on Mannone but you're way off on Mertesacker. Along with Arteta and Cazorla, Per is our most important player. I may even go as far as to say they're my Big 3 Players

Its true he didn't win much against Carroll but as I said during the game we were winning the second balls comfortably enough and at least with Mertesacker on him Carroll didn't have free reign to direct his flick ons. The way Carroll shrugged off Vermaelen on a couple of occasions means you should be careful what you wish for imo. The German is a proper defender, times tackles immaculately, always in the right place and there are very few players that have the effective beating of him in the air.

You seem to have formed your opinion of him from last season which is unfair. He was playing in a team with barely a single fit fullback, very little defensive protection from midfield and an insistence on playing a high defensive line with no pressure on the ball. Sometimes I have to pinch myself to check that its really true that I'll never have to watch alex song in an Arsenal shirt again

[Glitch33]

We currently look a stronger team with Giroud and Mertesacker in the starting line up.

Even though Giroud has not found his shooting boots and is not the fastest he does have strength, height and his movement is excellent. Others will score if he doesn't.

[SteveO 35]

LDB - I wouldn't say I've pre-judged him mate. In fact I think he has been one of our best players this season and was disappointed when Lord Wenger left him out of the side for the past couple of games. I just don't think he played particularly well yesterday. I did say that I think his tackle on Nolan was fantastic - probably one of the defining moments of the match - but I'm afraid he shirks the physical side and you can't have that in a centre half. Its all very well looking composed but it isn't right that our 5'11" CB gets left to mark Carroll and have to do all the rough stuff.

All of a sudden it seems to have become fashionable to knock Vermaelen and hero worship Mertesacker and I don't think either of those reactions are fair. Vermaelen is far from being the perfect centre half but he never ever shirks his responsibility and he will go toe-to-toe with any player physically, regardless of their size. I think people should be careful what they wish for before they condemn him to the scrap heap. Koscileny has proved how he can still be physically 'got at' and as for Djourou and Squidy, words fail me. There's a still a place for an old school centre half in my book and TV5 is the only one we've got in that mould

[LDB]

LDB - I wouldn't say I've pre-judged him mate. In fact I think he has been one of our best players this season and was disappointed when Lord Wenger left him out of the side for the past couple of games. I just don't think he played particularly well yesterday. I did say that I think his tackle on Nolan was fantastic - probably one of the defining moments of the match - but I'm afraid he shirks the physical side and you can't have that in a centre half. Its all very well looking composed but it isn't right that our 5'11" CB gets left to mark Carroll and have to do all the rough stuff.

All of a sudden it seems to have become fashionable to knock Vermaelen and hero worship Mertesacker and I don't think either of those reactions are fair. Vermaelen is far from being the perfect centre half but he never ever shirks his responsibility and he will go toe-to-toe with any player physically, regardless of their size. I think people should be careful what they wish for before they condemn him to the scrap heap. Koscileny has proved how he can still be physically 'got at' and as for Djourou and Squidy, words fail me. There's a still a place for an old school centre half in my book and TV5 is the only one we've got in that mould

I'm far from condemning Vermaelen to the scrap heap, I think he compliments Mertesacker perfectly and they should play every game together when fit and this is from one of Koscielny's biggest fans last season. I don't think Vermaelen was "left" to mark Carroll, I think he just got sucked toward the ball (although I'd need to watch it again) as he is prone to do which sometimes comes off and other times doesn't.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

At the risk of butting in to Steveo & LDB's convo I thought it was more just a case of Carroll purposely positioning himself to line up against the shorter defender – fairly bog-standard tactic. You can't really assign one of your CB's to effectively man-mark in open play cos it's too easy for the striker to drag them both out of position & have them constantly crossing over. That would just be a recipe for chaos & create all sorts of gaps between the CB's & full-backs for someone else to run into.

I do agree with Steveo that Mertesacker needs to be a bit more dominant in the air for his size. If he could develop his upper body strength a bit that would probably be a big help. Perhaps if he hadn't been at the Euros he might have been sent to that Michael Johnson thingymajig in the summer to do that - no reason he cant do a few extra press-ups now though I suppose. That said, he's also got a touch of the Crouch syndrome though, whereby (as ridiculous as it sounds ) his height sometimes works against him in the air cos he's often "attacking" the ball from practically a standing position whereas his opponent maybe benefits from the extra momentum of having to leap for the ball. Not really an excuse as such but maybe just adds a bit of context to the height=aerial domination equation.

[northbank123]

Vermaelen may not "shirk his responsibility" re aerial challenges etc but he does sometimes shirk his defensive responsibilities with regular forays up the pitch and reckless tackles because he's been dragged out of position.

The situation as I see it is we've got 3 good centre-halves with varying strengths and weaknesses.

Vermaelen is very physical and very good in the air for his height, very good defensive attributes but is prone to rash decision-making and often caught out of position.
Mertesacker reads the game exceptionally well, is positionally very solid and a good organiser, but is a carthorse and wears lead boots.
Koscielny is exceptionally fast and good with the ball at his feet, reads the game fairly well but looks like getting bullied by any physical centre-forward and panics when players play with their back to him.

For me, Koscielny and Vermaelen are the most similar and so far have unfortunately failed to really gel as a partnership in the opportunities they've had. I feel that Mertesacker's reading of the game complements either of the others' physical attributes.

That said, I think we're in a good situation where none of the three should be an automatic choice. At the end of the day Mertesacker has played very well this year, and deserves to be starting. Koscielny was terrible against Chelsea so Vermaelen rightly kept his place by virtue of being slightly less worse than him.

I can see what you're suggesting with fans being fickle and having short memories but at the end of the day Mertesacker was benched last year because he was struggling to get by in a defence that was positionally all over the shop and was offered no protection, with his lack of pace being brutally exposed. This year, he's prospered in a more settled defence which he marshals well as he's not having to constantly cover full-backs or Song, being dragged out of position or being left one-on-one with space behind him.

[SteveO 35]

The situation as I see it is we've got 3 good centre-halves with varying strengths and weaknesses.

So you don't agree with Red's assessment of our "excellent CB" Djourou then ?

[northbank123]

The situation as I see it is we've got 3 good centre-halves with varying strengths and weaknesses.

So you don't agree with Red's assessment of our "excellent CB" Djourou then ?

I think he should find a different career path, and that we should call the RSPCA re having Squillaci put down.

[DB10GOONER]

Great result against the Fat Bastard and the Wham filth. I fucking hate these crunts. Peado songs in this day and age? Really? Arseholes.

It could have gone either way and they had enough chances to win it. But we dug in and fought hard and it's a great away win.

Sooooo delighted for Giroud. Took his goal well, moved well all afternoon and set Feo Feo up too. A good days work. Hopefully that goal will boost his confidence now and he'll get a few more. And hopefully all the fucking doom and gloomers will now suspend their final decisions on him until he's had an actual season in the PL, rather than 5 or 6 games FFS.

Jenko improves with every game and his work rate is immense. Delighted for him too. Gibbs is a fucking disaster though. A good footballer, but as injury prone as Diaby. No use long term to us at all. Sorry but that is FUCT FACT

Thought Mert and TV5 did ok against one of the biggest aerial threats in the PL. But Bould (or Wenger) need to make a decision now and forget this zonal shit. IT DOES NOT WORK. Most of the few goal we have conceded have come from set pieces where some of our defenders are holding their zones and others are getting panicked into following the man. Our defenders are not good enough or disciplined enough to make zonal work.

Cazorla is just class. His vision is top quality and that finish today was top drawer. Arteta too is doing trojan work as a DM (fuck Wenger's idiot-speak - he's playing as a DM). And Pod is tireless but I'd like to see him not have to drop so deep so often as we often miss his tight control and passing up on the edge of the oppo box.

Fair fucks to Feo Feo, he took his chance well and his introduction seemed to fire our lot up a bit. But still no more than a sub for me and not worth a huge pay increase.

Even Ramsey did ok.

Great win. FOADYH.

[SteveO 35]

Gibbs is a fucking disaster though. A good footballer, but as injury prone as Diaby. No use long term to us at all. Sorry but that is FUCT FACT

That was the low spot of the game. In my opinion while Jenkinson, Arteta, Mertesacker etc have been taking all the plaudits, Gibbs has actually been the most consistent of the lot of 'em. Seeing him hobble off was a big blow. Fat boy Santos isn't a proper left back, he's more of a winger so we'll be weakened by the loss of Gibbs

[DB10GOONER]

Gibbs is a fucking disaster though. A good footballer, but as injury prone as Diaby. No use long term to us at all. Sorry but that is FUCT FACT

That was the low spot of the game. In my opinion while Jenkinson, Arteta, Mertesacker etc have been taking all the plaudits, Gibbs has actually been the most consistent of the lot of 'em. Seeing him hobble off was a big blow. Fat boy Santos isn't a proper left back, he's more of a winger so we'll be weakened by the loss of Gibbs

Yeah, it's fucking annoying. Every time Gibbs gets a couple of games under his belt and gets his technical level up, he gets injured. Feel sorry for him, it must frustrate the living fuck out of him.

Agreed, Santos for me too is more of a chubby winger than he'll ever be a proper full back.

[DB10GOONER]

Oh and I'm fucking thrilled Vaz Te has dislocated his shoulder.

Just wish it was worse the filthy Kúnt.

He left one in on Manonne and injured himself in the process. Fucking cowardly filthy kúnt. Fat Spam Allthepies probably sucked him silly in the hospital afterwards.