US shooting incidents

[Rohan]

Latest Conn. School Shooting incident really moved me. It felt so heavy and disturbed while driving back to pick my kid from school far from that place. Can't believe there is no constructive action from US to stop or save as many as from these kind of incidents.

[northbank123]

I saw the head of the NRA came out and said considering the number of guns that people hold legally in the US events like this are remarkably infrequent. Think the annual average firearm-related death toll in America is just under 12,000. Not really infrequent is it?

[dPmunky]

I saw the head of the NRA came out and said considering the number of guns that people hold legally in the US events like this are remarkably infrequent. Think the annual average firearm-related death toll in America is just under 12,000. Not really infrequent is it?

considering there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 million firearms in the US it may not be far off. a little insensitive for sure but a lot of those 12000 are gang / drug related, perhaps he meant mass shootings? ...although they seem to be on the rise in recent years.

I think time would be better served looking over the mental state of these individuals leading up to these events. I dont believe anyone who can walk into *insert public place here* and randomly and maliciously open fire (especially in this most recent case with tiny children) is properly squared away in his head.

[northbank123]

I saw the head of the NRA came out and said considering the number of guns that people hold legally in the US events like this are remarkably infrequent. Think the annual average firearm-related death toll in America is just under 12,000. Not really infrequent is it?

considering there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 million firearms in the US it may not be far off. a little insensitive for sure but a lot of those 12000 are gang / drug related, perhaps he meant mass shootings? ...although they seem to be on the rise in recent years.

I think time would be better served looking over the mental state of these individuals leading up to these events. I dont believe anyone who can walk into *insert public place here* and randomly and maliciously open fire (especially in this most recent case with tiny children) is properly squared away in his head.

I'm sure that he was specifically referring to these sorts of incidents, and I agree that the considerable majority of those deaths would have happened whatever the law on gun ownership. It's also true that you can't completely stamp out the risk of something like this happening. But the reality is that gun-related homicides will have a far higher incidence rate in a society where gun ownership is commonplace. That's common sense.

Clearly your perspectives are somewhat different on this but the way I see it there is no reason why Joe Public needs own a gun. It's completely disproportionate to vaguely cite 'self-defence' as a justification. Therefore, for me if it costs even one life then the law on gun ownership is wrong.

[dPmunky]

But the reality is that gun-related homicides will have a far higher incidence rate in a society where gun ownership is commonplace. That's common sense.

Clearly your perspectives are somewhat different on this but the way I see it there is no reason why Joe Public needs own a gun. It's completely disproportionate to vaguely cite 'self-defence' as a justification. Therefore, for me if it costs even one life then the law on gun ownership is wrong.

you're right, it is common sense. but the fact remains you could make the argument with any weapon as far as it goes from a "if it costs one life" perspective. There are a multitude of reasons that firearms are engrained in the American culture, a lot of them dating back to this countries origins and to it's westward expansion. mostly for these reasons it's political suicide for politicians to make any real change or impact on the issue. mostly it's political posturing and vote buying speech.

Seems these people are everywhere.....they're just far more effective with their results, sadly, here in the U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/world ... 3015.story

[QuartzGooner]

Prefer the UK law where it is very hard to legally own a firearm.

But if gun control was implemented in the USA, the only way it would be effective is if every home and workplace was searched, otherwise how else would the guns be given up?

If I lived in the USA I would want a gun, simply because of the amount of other guns in use there which could be accessed by burglars.

[northbank123]

But the reality is that gun-related homicides will have a far higher incidence rate in a society where gun ownership is commonplace. That's common sense.

Clearly your perspectives are somewhat different on this but the way I see it there is no reason why Joe Public needs own a gun. It's completely disproportionate to vaguely cite 'self-defence' as a justification. Therefore, for me if it costs even one life then the law on gun ownership is wrong.

you're right, it is common sense. but the fact remains you could make the argument with any weapon as far as it goes from a "if it costs one life" perspective. There are a multitude of reasons that firearms are engrained in the American culture, a lot of them dating back to this countries origins and to it's westward expansion. mostly for these reasons it's political suicide for politicians to make any real change or impact on the issue. mostly it's political posturing and vote buying speech.

Seems these people are everywhere.....they're just far more effective with their results, sadly, here in the U.S.
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/world ... 3015.story

You can hardly ban knives given their everyday necessity in the kitchen and certain trades. The underlying point I was making is that there is, in my view, absolutely zero inherent need for your average citizen to have a gun, and therefore you can't make any sort of proportionality argument.

I do agree that if some maniac is hell-bent on doing something like this they'll find a way. But giving everybody legal access to guns makes things a hell of a lot worse when something like this does happen. That other story you posted is terrible but fundamentally how many deaths? If the bloke had easy access to guns there's a huge chance he would have used one in that case, and most or all of those kids would have died.

I guess it's different because we don't have a codified constitution but I don't really understand the obsession with all of the rights in the Constitution. Rights affecting the rule of law such as the right to a fair trial, right to silence then yes they should be enshrined of course. But society has moved on so much in the centuries since that was drafted. Think how people lived at the time: is it really that abhorrent to the majority to suggest that perhaps some values have changed since then?

[Rohan]

I saw the head of the NRA came out and said considering the number of guns that people hold legally in the US events like this are remarkably infrequent. Think the annual average firearm-related death toll in America is just under 12,000. Not really infrequent is it?

Not sure why NRA thinks 20 elementary kids is a small number. Are they expecting every legal gun to kill at least one kid? One needs to consider effect of these incidents on every parent and kid.
There should be a password protected guns or something. Some strict rules for legal gun holders to protect their guns. Only If she kept her guns out of reach of her mentally disabled son.

[storrmin571]

Why on earth do you want to own a gun?

Why would you kill 6 year old children?

Devastating

[DB10GOONER]

First of all the murder of so many young kids is just appalling. As a parent it hits home hard. Tragic terrible event.

But whilst I understand these calls for banning guns, I don't support them. A gun is for all intents and purposes an inanimate object. Like a knife. Or a car. Guns don't kill people - people kill people.

To mass ban guns is to whitewash over the actual problem. The problem is people. There are sick fuckers out there that will kill alot of people wether they have a gun or not. That sick fuck would have gone to that school with a machete or a knife if he hadn't a gun. You can't ban everything because some sick fuck might use it as a weapon.

The issue is access for me. I wouldn't ban them but I would make access far more restrictive.

I am a fully licenced gun owner. I love guns. I target shoot for sport. I fully support the right to own a gun, but I also don't believe that everyone should have that right. I also believe it should be made difficult to own one, as it is here in Oireland.

It took me 6 months to get my first firearms licence. The cops did back ground criminal (and medical) checks, the rifle dealer I bought from insisted I buy a certified purpose-built gunsafe first, I had to attend firearms safety classes, the seller and the cops inspected how and where I have my gun safe installed, they showed me the minimum 3 levels of seperation for the keys to the gunsafe (gun is locked in the safe, the keys to the safe are locked in another safe in another hidden location in the house and the keys to THAT safe hidden in a third location). Similarly the ammo must be stored in a seperate locked and hidden location. The gun is also stored "disabled", which is a pain in the arse TBH as you have to refit the mechanism everytime you go shooting but it is another vital bit of safety.

I have two young kids so I take gun safety EXTREMELY seriously and I have brought my kids to my shooting club and demonstrated how devestating and destructive a gun can be, have taken much time to explain to them it is not a toy, and not something to take lightly or to ever trick or play around with.

[northbank123]

As you say DB10 that's a completely different situation. Those level of checks and precautions are completely necessary imo, and there will always be people who require guns for work/livelihood and those who love them for sport.

The outrage is that Joe Public can go and buy a gun with some vague mention of self-defence or a constitutional right and can then just keep it in a desk where it can be easily accessed. I know there are a very limited degree of restrictions on who can buy guns but it seems completely ineffective.

[flash gunner]

Poor kids!!! My oldest is 6 the same age as those poor babies killed in America on Friday and i dont think i could live with the hurt those parent have to live with, devastating!!!

Ban all guns IMO there are very strict gun laws over here in the U.K. and these sorts of incidents are extremely rare, almost unheard of - there has to be a link between the two, yeah criminals will still get there hands on them banks robbers, gang members etc but they wont be laying around the house for some dickhead to get his hands on when he's feeling shitty.......

Hope that fucker rots in hell

R.I.P. to the brave teachers and children

[OneBardGooner]

Horrible, Devastating and Tragic, sometimes when these kind of things happen it's so hard to try and comprehend and take in it is as if the mind has been raped.

I just don't have the words...R.I.P

[Bradywasking]

Saw a quote that said " One failed shoe-bombing and the security in airports is changed forever..continuous mass shootings and there are no changes to the gun laws." The gun lobby are massively powerful in USA so there is no political will to tackle the problem. Is it true that a spokesperson for the gun lobby advocates schools having an arsenal of their own to defend themselves against such attacks ? Heard that but don't want to misquote it. Whatever else you would have a heart of stone if you were not moved by those scenes.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

Sadly the gun issue will continue to be an issue for many years to come. There are so many issues with trying to outright ban guns in this country that it would take a book the size of the Bible to go over all the different problems. One being that there are already so many guns legally owned that even if you banned them there would be no way to get rid of them all, or even close to all. Thats not even including the illegal ones. Theres also the conservative right wingers who live and die by their "right to bear arms." Guns are ingrained in American society and their roots are deep, to dig them up would be a massive undertaking. I live in Illinois, which has the strictest gun laws in the entire country and we still have one of the highest gun crime rates in the world in Chicago. The state also passed a concealed carry license last week, which we were the LAST state to do so. Now you can legally conceal a weapon in any state as far as i know.