As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
OneBardGooner wrote:The thing is there used to be a clear and visible division between manager and the board, that difference is now so blurred, we could lump Wenger in with the board - he may not own shares but seems to have by-passed them in how Kroenke has given him carte blanche to do what he thinks is best, and the board members as long as they are raking in their profit/s do nothing.
The BSM need to get off the fence with regards Wenger's position at the club, they are either for him remaining as manager or going.
I think that's going to be a problem as they've consistently said it's not an anti-Wenger movement. If they shift position it could look like they're flip-flopping.
However, if they don't, and we really continue to struggle they could end up an irrelevance.
OneBardGooner wrote:The thing is there used to be a clear and visible division between manager and the board, that difference is now so blurred, we could lump Wenger in with the board - he may not own shares but seems to have by-passed them in how Kroenke has given him carte blanche to do what he thinks is best, and the board members as long as they are raking in their profit/s do nothing.
The BSM need to get off the fence with regards Wenger's position at the club, they are either for him remaining as manager or going.
I think that's going to be a problem as they've consistently said it's not an anti-Wenger movement. If they shift position it could look like they're flip-flopping.
However, if they don't, and we really continue to struggle they could end up an irrelevance.
If it's not about Wenger then fine, but don't then ask direct questions about him in your survey implying that it is.
donaldo wrote:The same BSM who had a march about ticket prices but refused any Wenger Out protest.
This letter once again excuses any blame on Wenger
Agree with this, very disappointed with the BSM, they've said on numerous times that they're not a Wenger Out group to probably get more members on board, it's now hard for them to change tact even if they wanted too.
Bottom line is that they whored themselves out to get more members so they can send letters claiming to be the largest group of Arsenal fans and everything after that is largely irrelevent
I joined BSM when they formed cos I thought that they would be different than all the other fan groups but like redaction, ast and aisa they all stand in fear of criticising the c.unt in charge in case it alienates them from other fans so they are just different shades of grey to me. If you believe and love something strongly enough then you cannot be afraid to go straight after the cause of the problems or else how would anything ever change ? On the other hand if they don't believe that wenger is responsible for this fiasco then they are clearly as deluded as redaction so how could anybody trust and get behind a group so clearly blinkered ?
Renewals for BSM will come out in a while and barring a big PUBLIC denouncement of wenger is made in the meantime then they will not get another penny from me
Totally agree and they won't get a penny from me either, I was also sceptical about their survey results!
Whilst it's admirable to try, there's no point unless serious questions are asked of Wenger's leadership and pressure and blame is firmly placed on him.
Last season, when things werent going well, i seen a twitter user ask the BSM why, the march which was coming up around that time, wasnt an anti-Wenger march, the BSM told the user to organise one himself, if he wanted. This showed they are wankers, who want to stand up for us as fans, only if it suits them.
I have supported BSM.
I support the idea behind this letter.
I think though some of their aims are wishful thinking of "turning the clock back" to a 1980's football environment seen through rose tinted spectacles, and that it is too late to do anything about them.
But it really has come to the crunch.
The fans must directly challenge the club to "Put Up or Shut Up."
I think though that we will buy players, the club wants to make sure of Champions League group stage football before they spend.
I said this last year, but any large Arsenal protest group must now be anti-Kroenke.
It should also demand that the club publicly back Wenger with new signings, and if he fails to buy, then he must go too.
When I was involved with Arsenalfcnotplc we were not anti Wenger (April 2011) but we did demand more players.
If those players had not been forthcoming, and to date they have not, then if that group was still active it would be anti-Kroenke and anti-Wenger by now.
There is always the risk that we have been lied to all along that Wenger had been denied funds by the board.
But if this is true, which I think was the case, but only partly the case 2006 - 2012, Wenger is still culpable for literally fleecing the fans of our cash.
[I can see this might turn into a general Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke thread so at some point reckon I will merge it with existing BSM thread.]
Don't disagree with any of the substance but I don't think they can continue to ignore the Wenger question. I understood the initial reticence to make it anti-Wenger but they can't keep pretending that the board and manager issues are completely separable. Whilst Wenger is manager we're never going to be a competitive club willing to spend what's required to challenge for real success. Equally it's completely unrealistic to expect Wenger's role to be scaled back at all. The only way to achieve their aims is if Wenger goes and it's time they came out and said it imo.
A standard reply letter complete with pre-printed signature awaits
Best they'll get is a 30 minute coffee morning with him where he'll listen generously to all of their concerns before awarding a 3 year contract to the man who is at a minimum 50% of the problem
Bottom line auguie is that you can critisise but cannot or will not take any action yourself and expect others to do it for you.
I said on here a very long time ago if you feel so strong about things then u must organise and do it yourselves but none of u have the courage to do so .
So far you've made a banner which u wont show in the ground WOW !
Herd wrote:Bottom line auguie is that you can critisise but cannot or will not take any action yourself and expect others to do it for you.
I said on here a very long time ago if you feel so strong about things then u must organise and do it yourselves but none of u have the courage to do so .
So far you've made a banner which u wont show in the ground WOW !
Jellyfish !
There is only solution that will make them listen.....don't go to games. I've managed to do it despite going regularly for years so others could do it if they felt like it
Why would anyone at the club listen when their salaries and exec bonuses are being funded year after year
Even if 50 king size banners were shown in the ground it wouldn't make the slightest difference
Yes, the board lack spine and ambition but the bigger problem is Wenger and the fact that members of the BSM gave him a 70% approval rating renders any real complaint pointless.
''The ticket prices are too high, Wenger needs help and the squad is thin but these prawn sandwiches are nice.''
There is only solution that will make them listen.....don't go to games. [/quote]
This right here...........the best way....and possibly the only way, stop feeding the machine. Its disgusting to see a full stadium knowing that this is what keeps wenger in a job regardless of results. When enough people refuse to pay for tickets and crowds are drastically reduced..then..and only then will the money men force wenger into action. With a full stadium every home game wenger is going no where. Vote with your feet and your wallets....its the only way!!!!
QuartzGooner wrote:I have supported BSM.
I support the idea behind this letter.
I think though some of their aims are wishful thinking of "turning the clock back" to a 1980's football environment seen through rose tinted spectacles, and that it is too late to do anything about them.
But it really has come to the crunch.
The fans must directly challenge the club to "Put Up or Shut Up."
I think though that we will buy players, the club wants to make sure of Champions League group stage football before they spend.
I said this last year, but any large Arsenal protest group must now be anti-Kroenke. It should also demand that the club publicly back Wenger with new signings, and if he fails to buy, then he must go too.
When I was involved with Arsenalfcnotplc we were not anti Wenger (April 2011) but we did demand more players.
If those players had not been forthcoming, and to date they have not, then if that group was still active it would be anti-Kroenke and anti-Wenger by now.
There is always the risk that we have been lied to all along that Wenger had been denied funds by the board.
But if this is true, which I think was the case, but only partly the case 2006 - 2012, Wenger is still culpable for literally fleecing the fans of our cash.
[I can see this might turn into a general Wenger/Gazidis/Kroenke thread so at some point reckon I will merge it with existing BSM thread.]
Contradiction there quartz - imo the board are backing wenker by giving him a very healthy transfer budget and are backing him 100% by allowing him to use it as he see's fit. If they "give" him new signings that he hasn't authorised then they are going above his head and undermining him. Wenker has had his chance and due to ineptitude and indecisiveness he continues to fail in the transfer market. It should also be noted that wenker himself stated that he has 11 full internationals on the pitch yesterday (which is more than villa had) so he should ask himself why he cannot set up the team to win the game (against the team that finished 4th bottom last season) and why in 90mins of football we could only manage 4 shots on target ?
On the other hand if they don't believe that wenger is responsible for this fiasco then they are clearly as deluded as redaction so how could anybody trust and get behind a group so clearly blinkered ? 
