As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
He was only with us for six seasons, but what a player!
Two titles and three FA Cups including a double and the Invincibles.
I class Brady as a legend because of his skills and influence, but do not forget he only won one FA Cup.
my list was not definitive, just off the top of my head....
George was there - because the guy was a legend himself - "charlie, charlie, King of Highbury...."
reflecting I guess Pires and Freddie are, Freddie more so.
Seaman - no way, will never forgive him for Zaragoza or the dozens of other times he watched the ball go over his head into the net - he did it for England too in the Semi v Brazil 2002.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that a player has be a terrace hero for some reason or another to be considered a "Legend" . I don't think bac was in anyway - not good enough, no rapport with the fans and won one FAC.
VAVAVOOM 14 wrote:
Sagna is a far better player/defender than Winterburn ever was.
you're out of your mind.
when did you start watching Arsenal ?
because if you watched Nutty week in week out from 1986 onwards there's no way at all you could say that.
the guy was a terrier, he'd take on anyone physically, worked his arse off, was a great crosser, and had a wicked left foot - hence the two winners at Chelsea.
clockender1 wrote:
Seaman - no way, will never forgive him for Zaragoza or the dozens of other times he watched the ball go over his head into the net - he did it for England too in the Semi v Brazil 2002.
I will NEVER forgive Thierry Henry for that chance he fluffed early on in Paris back in '06. Hesitation for no reason and let Valdes get ahead of him.
He still is and always will be an Arsenal legend in my eyes.
Seamen was a good 'keeper but imagine if we had Schmeichel.
because if you watched Nutty week in week out from 1986 onwards there's no way at all you could say that.
the guy was a terrier, he'd take on anyone physically, worked his arse off, was a great crosser, and had a wicked left foot - hence the two winners at Chelsea.
Sagna is a different pedigree.
Put it this way: if you're playing in a world cup/CL final and have to line up against Messi,Ronaldo,Bale, etc. I'd pick Sagna over Winterburn every time.
In his prime he was arguably the best defensive RB i Europe - a different calibre.
He was only with us for six seasons, but what a player!
Two titles and three FA Cups including a double and the Invincibles.
I class Brady as a legend because of his skills and influence, but do not forget he only won one FA Cup.
my list was not definitive, just off the top of my head....
George was there - because the guy was a legend himself - "charlie, charlie, King of Highbury...."
reflecting I guess Pires and Freddie are, Freddie more so.
Seaman - no way, will never forgive him for Zaragoza or the dozens of other times he watched the ball go over his head into the net - he did it for England too in the Semi v Brazil 2002.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that a player has be a terrace hero for some reason or another to be considered a "Legend" . I don't think bac was in anyway - not good enough, no rapport with the fans and won one FAC.
as i said just IMHO.
Agree with you about Sagna not being a legend - even though I think he is the only current player who could have got into the Invincible side. In my opinion the last of the legends left the club around 2006 or 2007.
Glad to see you've changed your mind on Pires though because for me he is definitely a club legend. I was puzzled how you could say Brady was but not Pires. Pires scored a winner in a cup final for us, was the Player of the Year and played in some of our best ever seasons. In contrast Brady left at 24, won just one trophy, missed a pen against Valencia and celebrated like mad with the Chicken Run when he scored against us for West Ham ... a game he should have been sent off him for elbowing one of our players in the face. I still like Brady despite all that, I'm just mentioning some negative things Pires never got close to doing. Both are legends in my view
Where I am still puzzled is you not including Seaman as a legend but you do include Jennings. Seaman played in 2 separate successful era's for the club over a long period and despite some high profile mistake he made some match winning saves too. The Parma game for example. Fair enough mentioning his mistake against Zaragoza but he was the hero in the semi final which was a key reason why we got to Paris in the first place (similarly people often forget Lehmann's efforts in getting us to Paris 11 years later too when they criticise him for what he did in the final).
As for Jennings, I remember an horrific mistake from him that got us knocked out the Milk cup at Oxford in 1984 and a few years before that there was his pathetic effort to save a weak shot away at Spurs in the FA Cup where we lost 1-0. This was particularly galling as he had been saying all week in the build up how he was dreading the game. Jennings is and always will be a Spurs man. Not even close to being an Arsenal legend for me.
I accept its just about our own opinions though and we've all got different reasons for holding them.
clockender1 wrote:But a RB doesn't only have defensive duties - a world class back creates as well as defends.
I know, but my point is Sagna was probably a better defender than 99% of all other right backs in his prime. I'd rather have Sagna - who wasn't an immaculate defender and capable of nullifying the greatest attacking players in Europe - over someone who offered more going forward but less at the back.
Defending always takes precedence over attacking - the midfield and strikers can take care of that front.
Again, Sagna was world class - on a different echelon to Winterburn; Nigel was only capped twice in his whole career but you're saying he'd be the 3rd best fullback in world football today?
Sagna wasn't world class at any point in his career. He was very very good at his peak but never truly world class IMHO. And for the last 2 or 3 years he has been quite average mostly, and appallingly shit at times. His game going forward totally disintegrated into constantly checking back and passing it back or hitting the first defender on the leg when trying to cross.
I'm not a Sagna hater and rated him as probably the best RB in the PL at one stage, but let's be fucking realistic here. Not world class.
TBH I'd rather hang onto him so Jenko (who will be his long term replacement ready or not ) can learn the defensive side of being a RB from him. But never for £100K a week.
Regarding Winterburn, sorry VAVAVOOM 14 you are way off the mark there. I don't know how old you are or if you ever watched Nutty in the flesh but I did and Nutty was the better player every time. Better defender, tougher/harder, better crosser, better attacking player. Sagna was very good but Nutty at his peak was better.
DB10GOONER wrote:Sagna wasn't world class at any point in his career. He was very very good at his peak but never truly world class IMHO. And for the last 2 or 3 years he has been quite average mostly, and appallingly shit at times. His game going forward totally disintegrated into constantly checking back and passing it back or hitting the first defender on the leg when trying to cross.
I'm not a Sagna hater and rated him as probably the best RB in the PL at one stage, but let's be fucking realistic here. Not world class.
TBH I'd rather hang onto him so Jenko (who will be his long term replacement ready or not ) can learn the defensive side of being a RB from him. But never for £100K a week.
Regarding Winterburn, sorry VAVAVOOM 14 you are way off the mark there. I don't know how old you are or if you ever watched Nutty in the flesh but I did and Nutty was the better player every time. Better defender, tougher/harder, better crosser, better attacking player. Sagna was very good but Nutty at his peak was better.
Agree, Sagna is a decent right back but not defensively as solid as Winterburn. Nutty also had a decent shot on him, when he did have a pop at goal it was usually spectacular (wimbledon 89 and chelsea 1998 spring to mind).
Arsenal Till I Die wrote:
I will NEVER forgive Thierry Henry for that chance he fluffed early on in Paris back in '06. Hesitation for no reason and let Valdes get ahead of him.
What chance are you speaking of?
The one where he touched it around the defender, took two steps, and shot?
If so, there was no hesitation whatsoever: Valdes was right on top of him, he was too close to goal - he did well just to get his shot away, if Henry wasn't so quick Valdes would've claimed it at his feet.
He was very very good at his peak but never truly world class IMHO. And for the last 2 or 3 years he has been quite average mostly, and appallingly shit at times. His game going forward totally disintegrated into constantly checking back and passing it back or hitting the first defender on the leg when trying to cross.
) can learn the defensive side of being a RB from him. But never for £100K a week. 
