Flamini staying

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) · Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:53 am

augie wrote:
26may1989 wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:OF COURSE I KNEW OF THE DIFFERRENT CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING CASHLEY'S DEPARTURE - AND EVEN THEN, HE ONLY GOT STICK AFTER HE LEFT - I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THE WAGES DIMENSION OF THIS ARGUEMENT.

CASHLEY WAS ACCUSED OF BEING GREEDY FOR DEMANDING Â£5,000 A WEEK MORE THAN HE WAS BEING OFFERED, YET THE SAME ACCUSATIONS AREN'T BEING LEVELLED AT FLAMINI FOR ASKING FOR AN ADDITIONAL Â£30,000.
Flamini is playing contractual hardball with the club but in the context of having been on the verge of being sold last summer, rarely getting a run in centre midfield before this season and having already capitalised on opportunities created by the rules when he left Marseilles (i.e. Wenger and the club should have known that Flamini is a smart cookie when it comes to the rules and contracts). By comparison with the approach of Cole and Barnett, who simply demanded more cash, Flamini is just playing his hand bloody well.

And that hand is only as strong as it is because Flamini's performances have been so good this season: he's hastened the end of Gilberto's Arsenal career (unless Bert wants to assume the utility role Flamini occupied before), he's driven out the very talented but stunningly short-sighted Diarra and he's built a genuine partnership with Cesc.

He might well end up with more than he deserves in terms of salary, but the questions he's now asking the club is "How much will it cost to replace me and wouldn't it be better to give most of that to me?" Quite reasonably, Wenger thought he could gamble on Flamini going into the season without being tied to a new contract, but that gamble hasn't paid off. Wenger's Arsenal have often played the rules very cutely over the years, but in Flamini they've met their match.

In summary, I think it's fundamentally a matter of respect. A lot of Arsenal fans respect what Flamini's done on the pitch and accept that he's forcing the club to treat him as well as possible. The difference with Cole might be subtle, but Flamini is playing it straight, which makes a big difference.

We had a ready made replacement in the form of diarra who cost us a mere Â£2m. People are being very blinkered if they think it would cost mega money to replace flamini - until this season flamini was at best a utility squad player and if we are being honest he had never done enough in midfield prior to this season to earn a starting spot. His main asset is his 100% energy and commitment which is very commendable but hardly irreplaceable is it ? I like flamini and would like him to say but it appears to me that some people, flamini himself included, seem to have overvalued him in importance

Could not agree more. I will be gutted if Flamini leaves, but I have said before and say again he is not bigger than the team! Arsenal and Wenger have flucked up a little bit by letting Diarra leave (should he have been loaned out until we knew Flamini was staying?) and letting Flamini start the season with his contract running out.

26may1989 · Post by **26may1989** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:01 am

augie wrote:We had a ready made replacement in the form of diarra who cost us a mere Â£2m.

That's history now. Diarra is a great player with a crap attitude. In the circumstances, although it would have been better for us and him for Diarra to have stayed, it was reasonable to offload him.

augie wrote:People are being very blinkered if they think it would cost mega money to replace flamini - until this season flamini was at best a utility squad player and if we are being honest he had never done enough in midfield prior to this season to earn a starting spot. His main asset is his 100% energy and commitment which is very commendable but hardly irreplaceable is it ? I like flamini and would like him to say but it appears to me that some people, flamini himself included, seem to have overvalued him in importance

You may be right, but that's the question Flamini is effectively putting - if we don't give him what he thinks he's worth, he's clearly prepared to go to Juve or Bayern on a free, and get Â£60k/Â£70k per week on a long contract for doing so. The problem for us is (a) whether we really can replace him as easily as you suggest, (b) whether the replacement would do as well in the team as Flamini has this season and (c) how much it would cost in wages and transfer fee.

I don't know but I would guess we'd have to pay about Â£35k to Â£40k per week for a replacement (which on a 4-year contract would be about Â£8m)plus a transfer fee of say Â£6m, so a total of about Â£14m (and perhaps more).

Given the uncertainties of going for another player, would it be better to offer to pay Flamini most of that Â£14m? Unfortunately, the answer is probably yes.

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) · Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:10 am

26may1989 wrote:
augie wrote:We had a ready made replacement in the form of diarra who cost us a mere Â£2m.
That's history now. Diarra is a great player with a crap attitude. In the circumstances, although it would have been better for us and him for Diarra to have stayed, it was reasonable to offload him.

augie wrote:People are being very blinkered if they think it would cost mega money to replace flamini - until this season flamini was at best a utility squad player and if we are being honest he had never done enough in midfield prior to this season to earn a starting spot. His main asset is his 100% energy and commitment which is very commendable but hardly irreplaceable is it ? I like flamini and would like him to say but it appears to me that some people, flamini himself included, seem to have overvalued him in importance
You may be right, but that's the question Flamini is effectively putting - if we don't give him what he thinks he's worth, he's clearly prepared to go to Juve or Bayern on a free, and get Â£60k/Â£70k per week on a long contract for doing so. The problem for us is (a) whether we really can replace him as easily as you suggest, (b) whether the replacement would do as well in the team as Flamini has this season and (c) how much it would cost in wages and transfer fee.

I don't know but I would guess we'd have to pay about Â£35k to Â£40k per week for a replacement (which on a 4-year contract would be about Â£8m)plus a transfer fee of say Â£6m, so a total of about Â£14m (and perhaps more).

Given the uncertainties of going for another player, would it be better to offer to pay Flamini most of that Â£14m? Unfortunately, the answer is probably yes.

According to the papers (I know not a reliable source) Flamini and his agent claim he will cost Â£20m to repalce and his wage 'demand' is Â£20m over 5 years i.e. Â£77k per week. It is not as simple as just paying it though - you have to think about the whole situation. I know a lot of people on here don't agree with me but if Flamini gets such a massive payrise I think it will unsettle other players who then feel they should be on more and either our wage bill skyrockets and the financial stability we are so proud of is lost (plus any future transfer kitty) or we see a lot of our best players leave of the next 18 months and Wenger has to 'build' another team before this one meets its potential!

augie · Post by **augie** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:14 am

26may1989 wrote:
augie wrote:We had a ready made replacement in the form of diarra who cost us a mere Â£2m.
That's history now. Diarra is a great player with a crap attitude. In the circumstances, although it would have been better for us and him for Diarra to have stayed, it was reasonable to offload him.

augie wrote:People are being very blinkered if they think it would cost mega money to replace flamini - until this season flamini was at best a utility squad player and if we are being honest he had never done enough in midfield prior to this season to earn a starting spot. His main asset is his 100% energy and commitment which is very commendable but hardly irreplaceable is it ? I like flamini and would like him to say but it appears to me that some people, flamini himself included, seem to have overvalued him in importance
You may be right, but that's the question Flamini is effectively putting - if we don't give him what he thinks he's worth, he's clearly prepared to go to Juve or Bayern on a free, and get Â£60k/Â£70k per week on a long contract for doing so. The problem for us is (a) whether we really can replace him as easily as you suggest, (b) whether the replacement would do as well in the team as Flamini has this season and (c) how much it would cost in wages and transfer fee.

I don't know but I would guess we'd have to pay about Â£35k to Â£40k per week for a replacement (which on a 4-year contract would be about Â£8m)plus a transfer fee of say Â£6m, so a total of about Â£14m (and perhaps more).

Given the uncertainties of going for another player, would it be better to offer to pay Flamini most of that Â£14m? Unfortunately, the answer is probably yes.

Not on the basis of one good season its not. Maybe his game was upped because he knew his contract was out and was strengthening his hand for this situation ? Maybe it was just a wonder year for him that he will never have again ? Or maybe he has finally grown into a player ready to play in our team on a constant basis ? It could be any one of these reasons or indeed some other reason that explains his performances this season but I do not think he should get the money he is looking for after just 1 season of note

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) · Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:18 am

augie wrote:Not on the basis of one good season its not. Maybe his game was upped because he knew his contract was out and was strengthening his hand for this situation ? Maybe it was just a wonder year for him that he will never have again ? Or maybe he has finally grown into a player ready to play in our team on a constant basis ? It could be any one of these reasons or indeed some other reason that explains his performances this season but I do not think he should get the money he is looking for after just 1 season of note

What about the CL run with him at left-back - that was not too bad. He did not exactly get many chances last season. This season he has played over 40 games as still looked one of the freshed players out there! Not sure he is worth what he is asking but not because he has only had one good season!

augie · Post by **augie** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:27 pm

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) wrote:
augie wrote:Not on the basis of one good season its not. Maybe his game was upped because he knew his contract was out and was strengthening his hand for this situation ? Maybe it was just a wonder year for him that he will never have again ? Or maybe he has finally grown into a player ready to play in our team on a constant basis ? It could be any one of these reasons or indeed some other reason that explains his performances this season but I do not think he should get the money he is looking for after just 1 season of note
What about the CL run with him at left-back - that was not too bad. He did not exactly get many chances last season. This season he has played over 40 games as still looked one of the freshed players out there! Not sure he is worth what he is asking but not because he has only had one good season!

I agree with you re his performances at left back but he has made it crystal clear he no longer wishes to be played there so he should only be assessed on his value as a centre midfielder and that is the problem. I know I might be outdated but I would prefer a big powerful PV4 type player there alongside cesc rather than some busy commited but physically lacking guy

goonerk · Post by **goonerk** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:34 pm

I agree with Augie entirely. I would love Flamini to stay, and on the basis of this season, he deserves his spot. However, there's a part of me which wouldn't be too disapointed if he were to leave...if Wenger drafted in a PV4 type player. Despite Wenger's comments about the partnership Flam and Cesc are/have formed, we still lack real physical strength in midfield. Flamini will work his socks off for the team, and for that alone, i love him, but all too often this season (more evedently recently), we've missed true power in the middle when we've needed it.

Fabby is a Foot (Leg-end) · Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:41 pm

Not sure I agree with that! Granted he is not a strong as PV4 but have we really lacked it in midfield? I would prob say at the mo (i.e. flamini still a gunner) midfield is the only position we are not lacking????

Red Gunner · Post by **Red Gunner** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:25 pm

The only irreplaceable player I can think of in our squad is Cesc. Other players we could replace with better quality. Now the Unbeatables had some irreplaceable players. We could have supposedly sold Henry for 50 million but what would be the point be if there was no one better than him to buy? Same case with Vieira, he was touted for 30 million. Pires' and Ljungberg's goals from the wings have still not been properly replaced.

augie · Post by **augie** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:18 pm

khalid_red wrote:The only irreplaceable player I can think of in our squad is Cesc. Other players we could replace with better quality. Now the Unbeatables had some irreplaceable players. We could have supposedly sold Henry for 50 million but what would be the point be if there was no one better than him to buy? Same case with Vieira, he was touted for 30 million. Pires' and Ljungberg's goals from the wings have still not been properly replaced.

Not sure we could get better full backs than sagna and clichy. As a pair they take some beating and are both young players so have many years in front of them injuries permitting of course.

Red Gunner · Post by **Red Gunner** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:38 pm

augie wrote:
khalid_red wrote:The only irreplaceable player I can think of in our squad is Cesc. Other players we could replace with better quality. Now the Unbeatables had some irreplaceable players. We could have supposedly sold Henry for 50 million but what would be the point be if there was no one better than him to buy? Same case with Vieira, he was touted for 30 million. Pires' and Ljungberg's goals from the wings have still not been properly replaced.
Not sure we could get better full backs than sagna and clichy. As a pair they take some beating and are both young players so have many years in front of them injuries permitting of course.

Them alongside Cesc are the only ones that haven't really been questioned by people. But I think Daniel Alves and Lahm would be adequate if not better replacements for them two.

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:16 am

green gooner wrote:This thread has gone from an award handover to Hitler on top of a Panzer and then a Homosexual signing for the Hammers

I like Flamini a lot but if he feels he has to push on then open the door for him I say. I do not want a player who is not 100% committed. I would rather he got a fair deal and stayed to fight for honours next season.

Do you know Ljungberg is gay?

Cos I have seen him hanging out with some of the best looking women in the world.

Red Gunner · Post by **Red Gunner** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:05 pm

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:18 pm

Fucking hell Khalid, you really will do anything to increase your post count wont you

Red Gunner · Post by **Red Gunner** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:28 pm

Wayno wrote:Fucking hell Khalid, you really will do anything to increase your post count wont you

Nope. It just proves that either Flamini or one of the supporters club's members lied

And that people who didn't believe this them were right