Jack Wilshere

[Bro]

Clearly there's some confusion over the term top drawer. I wasn't putting JW in the class of Schweinsteiger, Messi, Ronaldo etc. People often say Cazorla is a top drawer player. They're not saying he's on Iniesta's level. If Paul Scholes had never have made those comments on Sky Sports I wonder if this thread would even exist. It's an absolute exaggeration as per usual by some members on here, who are so itchy trigger finger they look for any excuse to turn on their own players.

Donaldo, yes I'm totally deluded to defend a 22 year old midfielder who as an 18 year old was our stand out player in his first season in the first team, instead of knee jerking and wanting immediate results. How delusional of me. Were you one of the ones acting up when we didn't re-sign Fabregas? The same Fabregas we don't even need.

I beg to differ about Ramsey now being better than Wilshere 2010/11. While he didn't score anywhere near as many goals, he had as much of an influence on the majority of games as Ramsey does now, if not more.

The adage springs to mind, form is temporary, class is permanent.

[northbank123]

Clearly there's some confusion over the term top drawer. I wasn't putting JW in the class of Schweinsteiger, Messi, Ronaldo etc. People often say Cazorla is a top drawer player. They're not saying he's on Iniesta's level. If Paul Scholes had never have made those comments on Sky Sports I wonder if this thread would even exist. It's an absolute exaggeration as per usual by some members on here, who are so itchy trigger finger they look for any excuse to turn on their own players.

Donaldo, yes I'm totally deluded to defend a 22 year old midfielder who as an 18 year old was our stand out player in his first season in the first team, instead of knee jerking and wanting immediate results. How delusional of me. Were you one of the ones acting up when we didn't re-sign Fabregas? The same Fabregas we don't even need.

I beg to differ about Ramsey now being better than Wilshere 2010/11. While he didn't score anywhere near as many goals, he had as much of an influence on the majority of games as Ramsey does now, if not more.

The adage springs to mind, form is temporary, class is permanent.

This thread had hundreds of posts on it long before Scholes made those comments

There's 'defending' him - which many on here do, and even I will in the face of some of the more unreasonable criticisms - and there's calling him top drawer and suggesting that he's suffering from a minor blip. Wilshere was very impressive that season but put simply Ramsey is a gamewinner. If you'd rather have 18-year old Wilshere than Ramsey lining up in your side then you're delusional.

Oh, and the whole "I know I said top drawer but I didn't actually mean top drawer" argument is pretty thin.

[A11M11]

The same Fabregas we don't even need.

That in itself remains to be seen.

[officepest]

yeah, Dixon is quality - the backs pushing up too quickly was not something i'd spotted.

he also castigated Ox for not being open often enough and taking the ball at feet.

did you catch the comment after campbell spun Chambers who was too tight to him ? - he said he needs to stand two feet behind the attacker and put his hand on his back to make him think he's too tight, and then Campbell would just spin into him and Chambers would block him.

that, is why we need a coaching team - Wenger could never teach that.

If we had coaches for each line, you can bet we'd get much better results from Sanogo, Jack, Ox, Chambers and Per, all who need work.

I thought Dicko was pretty much spot-on with what he said about us yesterday. That's what frustrates me so much, we're not a million miles away from being a good side but it's the lack of attention to detail that has, and will continue to, hamstring us.

If a good ex-player can see it, why does Wenger ignore it? Why are our fullbacks not instinctively on the near/far posts?

Small things I know but it's the little things over the course of a season that could see us from also-rans to winners. That and some canny investment in key areas. Oh, and not having Sanogo anywhere near the team too.

[I Hate Hleb]

piss poor again today. we looked better when he went off.

i'll repeat what Lee Lee Dixon said "Jack spends too long on the ball, his release is not quick enough. he dawdles and invites tackles. he sucks players in to tackle him, and that's why he's constantly injured"

Hang on a second. Just how many chances did we create when he went off compared to before then? Not bloody many either way. Although it's not saying much, he was our best midfielder in the first half. Santi was absolute rubbish throughout all 90 minutes and kept giving the ball away. So was Ramsey who - apart from netting the last minute winner - was piss poor in all aspects of his game yesterday and played more like the much derided Ramsey of a couple of years ago. As for Arteta...... Yet surprise, surprise, people are quick to jump on their pet target as to them, anything but stella performances from Wilshere just reinforces their preconceived opinion.

People complain that he keeps falling over but that's because he keeps getting fouled - partly due to hanging on to the ball too long (which can also be excused by the deepness in which he is encouraged to pick up the ball and also the lack of movement from the front options).

Is he a world class player? No, he's not proven it and anyway, no-one has claimed that he already is. What had been said is that he has the natural attributes to become world class but - due in main to being out for the best part of the last 2 years through serious injury - he has still to step up to that level, understandably, in my view. However, being just 22 he has still got time on his side and given a long run clear from injuries, I expect him to live up to the promise he showing a couple of years ago.

Now whether you agree that he has the potential to get there, or not, let's a least give the guy a proper chance before completely writing him off!!

[topgoon]

When Rambo was doing poorly and let's face it in season 2011/12 he wasn't great,gave the ball away lots, wasted chances in good positions and lacking confidence,most of the grief he was getting was from our own fans. The meia didn't really lay into him.

Now since May the roll call of pundits and ex-players laying into Jack Wilshere

Robbie Savage
Jamie Carragher
Paul Scholes
Bryan Robson
Glen Hoddle
Jamie Redknapp
Ian Holloway
Stewart Robson
Stuart Pearce
Alan Shearer

There are more that I probably forget. Should a 22yr old really have journos lining up to be slag him off constantly That is really going to help a young player

JW has started 87 games in 6 years, with about 80% of that being in his breakthrough year when his own manager criminally overused a young kid. Since then to say he has been continuously injured would be an understatement.

he has made 12 less appearances than Gibbs, yet we call Gibbs a perma-crock.

JW is not the answer to England's problems but he can be a very good player for us. It was only 18months ago when he was in the middle against Brazil and it was being hailed as an outstanding 1st half performance. It wasn't but it was very good and controlled the midfield.

He looks frustrate and sadly because he insists on being on crap like social media and engaging with the tabloid whores he is probably aware of the criticism.

Despite a lot of crap he gets on here and from media sources, I still think he is a very good player that needs to stop trying too hard and stop over thinking sh*t.

I believe the manager has a personal responsibility to turn this player back to what he was and can be again, a good player that can be a very good player again.

He has 3 positions open to him in the tem, re-invent himself as a combative no.10, a B2B mdfielder or as a defensive foil next to Ramsey, the way Matic is next to the Catalan Chav.

In my opinion his best position is B2B competing with Rambo, nothing wrong with that. If you are competing at the top of the table you need 2 top class players for every position. He needs to see Rambo as a challenge and not a hindrance. Block out the w**kers who criticize because you know they'll start s**king his c*ck again after 2 good games...fickle

[the playing mantis]

catalan chav, jeez give it a rest.

wilshire problem is his thick. if anyones a chav its him. its no coincidence we have played much better this season when he has been taken off.

hes currently a liability and shouldnt be in the team.

yes he was a great white hope and looked good when he broke through, but he has seriously regressed be it because of injuries or whatever.

he may do a ramsey and come good, but can the club afford to carry him in the first xi slowing us down losing the ball and holding us back. we have quite a few doing that at present.

ramsey is a lesson. he was awful, really bad, but did the fact he kept getting picked transform him? i dont know.

the question is do you stick with crap performances in the short/medium term in the hope the player will become much better in the long term despite it severly hindering you as that player gets game time whilst still shit?

its a dangerous and difficult situation as how long do you persist and how many players do you do it with, the danger is you are always carrying players in the hope they will eventually develop, but if you are continually doing that you will never have success now, it will always be jam tomorrow regardless of those players turning into ramseys.

maybe the player can be managed better, getting first xi football but not being such a hindrance by making sub appearances and featuring in less important games.

the problem we have now is that the whole team is playing as strangers and many are way short of form, so wilshere cannot be carried. until the team finds rhythm and form, then you can start sneaking in players who are a slight antithesis to what we should be doing (i mean wilshere holding on the ball too long and slowing us down) and them being slipped in then.

with all playing poorly wilsheres struggles are highlighted even more.

its a shame but at present he shouldnt be in the first xi. he is not helping our poor performances and there are others who should be picked ahead of him.

[topgoon]

Fabregas is a Catalan born and bred. Chelsea fans and team are known by pretty much all fans as the chavs, so back at you..... jeez figure it out.

You ignored my point of why was he being singled out by the media. Tom Cleverly has never looked like anything but a midtable player AT BEST yet every poor game he has you don't see newspapers filled with ex-players lining up to slag him off.

The 'oh he is thick ' argument is so darn lazy. What because he speaks like a working class oik,doesn't have a million GCSE's like Lampard or acts like the average kid with his upbringing when he isn't playing.

His performances have nothing to do with being 'thick' or a 'chav' but to do with confidence,loss of form, 3 years of injuries and trying too hard.

In 2010-2011 season a 19yr old was our most used player. Abused player actually. What kind of idiot plays a 19yr old 49times...well you know the answer to that one.
In July of that year he developed a stress fracture and then spent 16 months out because it kept recurring due to our Dr Frankenstein like medics and AW bringing him back too soon. Since that summer,he has been out for the best part of 2 seasons. Can you imagine the frustration at that age, I can't.

There is an article done by a physio back in 2012 which wonders if he'll ever come back the same player and it was quite good reading a physios perspective of what's happened to Wilshere. If I fund it I'll link it on here.

I do agree we can't afford to carry him but I would find it very sad if we jettison him without trying to get him back to what he was. You called him a great white hope,sorry but that's your fault if you class him as that I just call him a young player with very good potential that can still fulfil it,with help. The English media so desperate for something different in their average team made him the new messiah. He isn't and they and the England team can go and f**k themselves.

[augie]

When Rambo was doing poorly and let's face it in season 2011/12 he wasn't great,gave the ball away lots, wasted chances in good positions and lacking confidence,most of the grief he was getting was from our own fans. The meia didn't really lay into him.

Now since May the roll call of pundits and ex-players laying into Jack Wilshere

Robbie Savage Thick as shit no talent wannabee
Jamie Carragher slow as a carthorse and quickly "retired" from international football when he realised that he aint gonna get a game
Paul Scholes dirty ginger c*nt who made his name as much for his tackles as his football
Bryan Robson the original perma crock - his affinity with injuries extended to (allegedly) shagging the fat sky sports presnter when she had a broken leg and couldnt flee the room when his wife walked in
Glen Hoddle religious nutcase whose batty reincarnation comments will forever be remembered
Jamie Redknapp perma crock mark 2 - there because of daddy's triffic rep with the media, but the reality is that there is more brains in a rocking horse
Ian Holloway hey oop, I'm a mad bastard me
Stewart Robson average footballer who sometimes lets his chip on the shoulder shine through
Stuart Pearce famous for being an old school english player where shouting, roaring and tackling agressively was important than the need to be a decent footballer Shit manager too
Alan Shearer - the original mary poppins who angelic reputation excused him from dirty tackles and especially when he kicks an opposition player in the face when he is lying on the ground - better not punish him too hard though or else he wont play for his country anymore though

There are more that I probably forget. Should a 22yr old really have journos lining up to be slag him off constantly That is really going to help a young player

These are all people whose opinions whose opinions are meant to carry weight ? They can fcuk right off

[the playing mantis]

woops missed the catalan chav term!!

the reason cleverley isnt picked up as he has never been hailed as the great white hope of english football. jack has. and everyone still thinks it and refers to it.

cleverely never was and never will be, the media know hes shit and always will be.

oh and jack comes across with his on and off pitch behaviour of being thick

i agree aw fucked him up overplaying him, but thats in the past and is now irrelevant how we got tot he current situation. the question is now can he ever get it back and how long do we persist carrying him.

[SteveO 35]

Trying to turn Wilshere into the holding midfielder we've needed for six years will go down along with the decisions to make Almunia the regular number 1 and not sign a second striker last season, as the most ludicrous in There's Only One's glorious reign.

Will never ever work in a million years

[topgoon]

Thick on and off the field. No, a Footballer on and off the field.

Your analysis off Jack sounds like scum fans one even when he was playing well. It's lazy because you can't or won't say I just don't like the chavvy . That's what it boils down to. And no I am not labelling you a spurs fan,just the attitude.

Thanks for nailing hone my point about others making him a great white hope life. He certainly didn't. I distinctly remember when he was younger some smart a**e rag trying to pin that on him and him saying he just wanted to keep working hard and playing well for the team so it can help him in the England team.

The only thing you've said that doesn't sound like someone with a chip on their shoulder about a player is about how long we continue to carry him. Till he stops working hard,then he can bugger off.

SteveO I said he had to find a roke in the team and my suggestion was he's best wishes suited for a B2B role. Not as a DM. Speaking of which when's your darling Abou getting off yet another treatment table ? lol

[the playing mantis]

!!!

so you are disagreeing jack is curently playing shit and a burden ont he team and we dont improve when he gets taken off??

most footballers are not pictured smoking in their spare time either.

just because you love a player doesnt mean you ignore he isnt currently good wnough to be in the team.

[goonersid]

He's shite

[donaldo71]

He's shite

But he's English shite